Question:

It seems that every software I look at

Have you looked at SQL-Ledger (www.sql-ledger.org)?  It may still has more than you need but you also can configure it to see and use only what you need.  If you need more than what is offered you can request feature to be added.  The support is exceellent and the software produces very nice reports.  Finaly, it, as software, is free and if you know what you are doing, you may get along without support and documentation, although the prices are more than affordable and reasonable. Good luck, Jimmyst

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems that every software I look at has lots of functinality for payroll (which I don’t need..yet..), and inventory (which is irrelevant since we are not retail, rather service-oriented).  And the one thing each package seems to be missing is asset & expense tracking.  For example, I buy a new computer for my business, that is not actually inventory – it’s an asset. Is there another term for this record keeping that I am missing?  Or, let’s say I get my electricity bill. Well that would be an expense, but it’s not actually a "purchase" that adds to my inventory… Does anyone have any insight?  Can recommend any particular software? Right now I’m just using Excel Spreadsheet but it is getting cumbersome. Thanks, Melanie

One of your problems appears to be that the accounting vocabulary confuses you. You seem the equate the word "purchase" with inventory. Look at it this way. You can purchase: merchandise for resale that’s inventory when you buy it from a third party and it gets expensed as Cost of Goods Sold when it is sold. a computer that’s a fixed asset, because a last’s longer than a year, this cost gets amortized (expensed) over a predetermined period of time. a pencil that’s an expense, because it gets consumed within a short period of time . electricity that’s an expense because you have consumed it; however, in a manufacturing environment that portion of the electrical bill that was used to operate the equipment that created your merchandise, kept the lights on in the factory, etc., becomes part of the cost of your manufactured goods, as do raw materials, human resources, amortization of the relevant fixed assets, etc. and ends up in Inventory until the manufactured goods get sold at which point the inventory is reduced and its cost is "expensed" as Cost of Goods Sold. raw materials a current asset "Raw Materials Inventory" which will make it eventually into Finished Goods Inventory and Cost of Goods Sold. labor factory labor to Finished Goods Inventory and eventually Cost of Goods Sold sales people to Direct Marketing Expenses office staff to General Overhead. The list can go on forever. The point is that the word "purchases" means that you obtained a product or service for which you have to pay something. However, whether it is a current asset, a fixed asset, or an immediate expense depends upon the nature of the purchase and the purpose for which it was acquired. Rather than recommending any software, including ours, I would recommend that you find yourself a good accountant to help you with that aspect of the business while you yourself concentrate on your own competencies to run your business whatever that may be. Good luck, Wolfgang Rochow www.gestalt.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems that every software I look at has lots of functinality for payroll (which I don’t need..yet..), and inventory (which is irrelevant since we are not retail, rather service-oriented).  And the one thing each package seems to be missing is asset & expense tracking.  For example, I buy a new computer for my business, that is not actually inventory – it’s an asset. Is there another term for this record keeping that I am missing?  Or, let’s say I get my electricity bill. Well that would be an expense, but it’s not actually a "purchase" that adds to my inventory… Does anyone have any insight?  Can recommend any particular software? Right now I’m just using Excel Spreadsheet but it is getting cumbersome. Thanks, Melanie

exactly what do you mean by "tracking" ?   almost all accounting programs have detailed transaction reports for balance sheet and expense accounts, some have a separate fixed asset or budget module for large businesses.   If you have tried quickbooks or peachtree what extra info do you need?

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It seems that every software I look at has lots of functinality for payroll (which I don’t need..yet..), and inventory (which is irrelevant since we are not retail, rather service-oriented).  And the one thing each package seems to be missing is asset & expense tracking.  For example, I buy a new computer for my business, that is not actually inventory – it’s an asset. Is there another term for this record keeping that I am missing?  Or, let’s say I get my electricity bill. Well that would be an expense, but it’s not actually a "purchase" that adds to my inventory… Does anyone have any insight?  Can recommend any particular software?  Right now I’m just using Excel Spreadsheet but it is getting cumbersome. Thanks, Melanie

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Question:

If I go to another Home Depot, yes, they do accept refunds not bought at that store. And they price match the other store in the case of differing tax rates. I would not expect them to accept returns from Lowes because the NAME is DIFFERENT. Last time I checked, stores with the same names aren’t ‘competitors’. I used to work in a franchised store myself. If it has the company name on it, you do the refund the way the receipt says it was bought. The sign says ‘Ace Hardware’, not ‘Joe Schmoe’s Hardware, featuring Ace Products’ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -You really expect a sign at every store saying they will not accept returned merchandise bought elsewhere?  If I go to Home Depot, I do not need a sign telling me they will not accept a return of merchandise purchased at Lowes. You sound like an idiot to me.  You want someone to give you money for a product bought at a competitor’s store and you want *more* money than what they sell normally charge for the product.

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As a business owner I would not want your lazy ass as a customer. No sir I don’t need people like you who get so worked up over $1.00 .I f you did buy something from me you would more than likely be a pain in he ass. I am to busy bunkie to have you as  a customer. Hell I can ease the pain of hemoriods  for a few bucks. But you…… I could never get relief. Go some place else, please don’t do business with me.

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If I go to another Home Depot, yes, they do accept refunds not bought  The sign says ‘Ace Hardware’, not ‘Joe Schmoe’s Hardware, featuring Ace Products’

No so.  I agree about HD as they are company owned stores. Here in Putnam CT, you can go to Modern Lumber and see the Ace sign.  They are a franchise.  How about Koopman’s True Value?  They have stores in three locations and all have the Koopman’s sign more dominant that the True Value. Take a look in the Yellow Pages under "Hardware."   What to you see? Ed http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

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. If it has the company name on it, you do the refund the way the receipt says it was bought. The sign says ‘Ace Hardware’, not ‘Joe Schmoe’s Hardware, featuring Ace Products’

Actually, I have been to several Ace hardware stores.  Each one had a name on it such as San Dimas Hardaware or Mr. G’s Hardware.  The Ace was a subtitle at best.  It was always clear to me that they were independent entities.

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Actually, I have been to several Ace hardware stores.  Each one had a name on it such as San Dimas Hardaware or Mr. G’s Hardware.  The Ace was a subtitle at best.  It was always clear to me that they were independent entities.

After searching the web for "Ace hardware return policy" it appears that an Ace brand product can be returned to any franchised store regardless of where it was purchased.  I could find nothing in regards to returning a non Ace brand product. — Jack Novak Buffalo, NY – USA

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If I go to another Home Depot, yes, they do accept refunds not bought at that store. And they price match the other store in the case of differing tax rates. I would not expect them to accept returns from Lowes because the NAME is DIFFERENT. Last time I checked, stores with the same names aren’t ‘competitors’. I used to work in a franchised store myself. If it has the company name on it, you do the refund the way the receipt says it was bought. The sign says ‘Ace Hardware’, not ‘Joe Schmoe’s Hardware, featuring Ace Products’

– jc (Remove NoSpam when replying by mail)

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On another note, the Chicago Tribune has a story tomorrow about return policies in stores.  It seems that even with gift receipts, stores are refusing to refund items bought and paid for.  Yet they wonder why they are losing business. A store that is willing to help their customers will have lots of customers.  A store that isn’t willing to help them will soon not need them.

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If you owned a franchise would you want to give returns on items that weren’t bought at your store, especially for a dollar more than you actually sell the item for? I don’t blame the franchisee one bit (although he probably shouldn’t be advertising "hassle free returns" if this is his policy). Nonetheless, you’re dealing with the BORG, not nordstrom’s. If you want truly hassle-free returns, buy everything at woodcraft and pay %10 – %20 more for it. — J. Durango "Guitar is only guitar, not other instrument, and we like it." – How to Arrange Ragtime for Guitar (translated from Japanese to English) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a FRANCHISE, not a CHAIN. But we’ll do it anyway. That should answer your question right there. A franchise store does not have to accept returns on inventory purchased elsewhere.  Even a chain store doesn’t have to. So I get to the front register and he tells me ‘Well, the price is a dollar less here. If you want your money back, we can only give you OUR price on it, not theirs’. Needless to say, I didn’t return it. Nor will I ever be doing business with that particular store ever again. But my real question is – is that even LEGAL in Florida? He was doing you a big favor by accepting your return, he had no obligation to do so, and it probably would have caused a minor glitch in the store’s accounting for inventory.  I’d certainly be going back to that store, they seem to be good people in spite of their (acceptable) policy. JE

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Let me make sure I understand this correctly: You wanted to return something to a store where you didn’t buy it, and not only that but you wanted them to give you more for it than they were selling it for.  When they didn’t want to do so, you thought _they_ were out of line? Hello?  What am I missing here? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – See above thread on expired shellac – it won’t dry on glass, so I brought it back. However, since I had to drive in the other direction today, I thought I’d bring it to the Ace Hardware in /that/ direction and see if they had any fresher cans. I walk into the store and there’s a HUGE sign on the front window – No Hassle Return Policy On Refunds And Exchanges – Your Reciept Proves It! Okay, no problem. So I go in and someone comes up to help me. He immediately says ‘Well you didn’t buy it HERE. We don’t even carry this, but if we did, we wouldn’t HAVE to exchange it’. An older worker comes up and says that they DO carry it, and I go over and all of those are expired too. So I ask for a refund. First he says once again, you didn’t buy it here, so we don’t HAVE to give you your money back. This is a FRANCHISE, not a CHAIN. But we’ll do it anyway. So I get to the front register and he tells me ‘Well, the price is a dollar less here. If you want your money back, we can only give you OUR price on it, not theirs’. Needless to say, I didn’t return it. Nor will I ever be doing business with that particular store ever again. But my real question is – is that even LEGAL in Florida?

– jc (Remove NoSpam when replying by mail)

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The fact that he made it seem like an incredibly huge hassle to exchange a $4 can of shellac is what makes me refuse to go back there. Combined, the staff must have said ‘Franchise’ about 10 times. Just say you can or can’t do it. I don’t want to hear a corporate schpiel. And the fact that the moment I showed them what I was exchanging, the first guy said ‘We don’t have that, can’t do it.’ Ace is the only one to carry Bulls Eye amber shellac [Home Depot only stocks clear]. I’m going to have to go back to Lowes to check out the Parks Orange Shellac, but A) it’s a huge can that I don’t need and B) I don’t remember it having any kind of ‘manufactured on’ date when I looked at it, so I’d have no clue how old it is. No, I don’t want to mail order flakes when I only need enough to cover a 3" x 4′ surface with it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He was doing you a big favor by accepting your return, he had no obligation to do so, and it probably would have caused a minor glitch in the store’s accounting for inventory.  I’d certainly be going back to that store, they seem to be good people in spite of their (acceptable) policy. JE

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One: I was told they didn’t have an item that they did have.

Ok Two: They obviously don’t take care of their stock or there wouldn’t be 3 year old shellac on the shelves. Nor did they offer to try to get new stock when I stated I needed the product.

Ok Three: The guy gave me a five minute lecture on WHY they can’t do it instead of just telling me it’s against policy.

It is hard to believe that it took someone 5 minutes to explain that.  They probably simply explained why they did not have to give you a refund (that they gave you anyway).  I generally like understanding why rather than hearing "it’s not our policy" Four: They have a giant sign on the storefront and a giant sign on the register saying ‘No hassles, no questions asked returns if you have a receipt’. They need to take that sign down.

Bullshit.  Are you really so dense that you did not understant that the phrase "if you have a receipt" meant a receipt from *that* store and not some other? I have ZERO problem with stores that have a ‘No Returns From Other Stores’

You really expect a sign at every store saying they will not accept returned merchandise bought elsewhere?  If I go to Home Depot, I do not need a sign telling me they will not accept a return of merchandise purchased at Lowes. You sound like an idiot to me.  You want someone to give you money for a product bought at a competitor’s store and you want *more* money than what they sell normally charge for the product.

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 Four: They have a giant sign on the storefront and a giant sign on the register saying ‘No hassles, no questions asked returns if you have a receipt’. They need to take that sign down. I have ZERO problem with stores that have a ‘No Returns From Other Stores’ or even ‘No Returns Or Exchanges, Period’ as long as they have a sign up for it.

Yes, but you did not buy it at that store, (and your receipt proves it) so you have no complaint. They are a franchise so they have no obligation to the other store unless the contract specifically states so. Ed

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The fact that he made it seem like an incredibly huge hassle to exchange a $4 can of shellac is what makes me refuse to go back there.

  Wow.  You sound touchy.   Put yourself in HIS shoes.  Some Joe Shmoe comes in, and says "Hey, I bought this can of stuff at someone else’s store, and I didn’t bother to make sure it wasn’t expired.  Will you take their crap back, and give me some of YOUR money for it?"   Yeah.  When you look at it that way, maybe the hastle was his. steve

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The word "return" means "go back."  As in "go back to the store where you bought it in the first place."   When you tried to bring it to someplace you didn’t buy it, you were basically asking them to buy, from you, something that you bought from a competitor across town.  (And you expected them to pay you a dollar more than their regular price to boot!)  That’s a pretty bizarre interpretation of the word "return." I think the store manager will breath a sigh of relief that to know that you will no longer be doing business with them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One: I was told they didn’t have an item that they did have. Two: They obviously don’t take care of their stock or there wouldn’t be 3 year old shellac on the shelves. Nor did they offer to try to get new stock when I stated I needed the product. Three: The guy gave me a five minute lecture on WHY they can’t do it instead of just telling me it’s against policy. Four: They have a giant sign on the storefront and a giant sign on the register saying ‘No hassles, no questions asked returns if you have a receipt’. They need to take that sign down. I have ZERO problem with stores that have a ‘No Returns From Other Stores’ or even ‘No Returns Or Exchanges, Period’ as long as they have a sign up for it.

– jc (Remove NoSpam when replying by mail)

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One: I was told they didn’t have an item that they did have. Two: They obviously don’t take care of their stock or there wouldn’t be 3 year old shellac on the shelves. Nor did they offer to try to get new stock when I stated I needed the product. Three: The guy gave me a five minute lecture on WHY they can’t do it instead of just telling me it’s against policy. Four: They have a giant sign on the storefront and a giant sign on the register saying ‘No hassles, no questions asked returns if you have a receipt’. They need to take that sign down. I have ZERO problem with stores that have a ‘No Returns From Other Stores’ or even ‘No Returns Or Exchanges, Period’ as long as they have a sign up for it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me make sure I understand this correctly: You wanted to return something to a store where you didn’t buy it, and not only that but you wanted them to give you more for it than they were selling it for.  When they didn’t want to do so, you thought _they_ were out of line? Hello?  What am I missing here? See above thread on expired shellac – it won’t dry on glass, so I brought it back. However, since I had to drive in the other direction today, I thought I’d bring it to the Ace Hardware in /that/ direction and see if they had any fresher cans. I walk into the store and there’s a HUGE sign on the front window – No Hassle Return Policy On Refunds And Exchanges – Your Reciept Proves It! Okay, no problem. So I go in and someone comes up to help me. He immediately says ‘Well you didn’t buy it HERE. We don’t even carry this, but if we did, we wouldn’t HAVE to exchange it’. An older worker comes up and says that they DO carry it, and I go over and all of those are expired too. So I ask for a refund. First he says once again, you didn’t buy it here, so we don’t HAVE to give you your money back. This is a FRANCHISE, not a CHAIN. But we’ll do it anyway. So I get to the front register and he tells me ‘Well, the price is a dollar less here. If you want your money back, we can only give you OUR price on it, not theirs’. Needless to say, I didn’t return it. Nor will I ever be doing business with that particular store ever again. But my real question is – is that even LEGAL in Florida? — jc (Remove NoSpam when replying by mail)

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If you want truly hassle-free returns, buy everything at woodcraft and pay %10 – %20 more for it.

Woodcraft is mostly franchise, and will be totally franchise in the not too distant future (other than catalogue orders to headquarteres) if it isn’t already.  Woodcraft corporate sets the prices, and the franchises have to honor them, regardless of the profit or lack thereof on that item.  Not a bad deal for the corporation on this type of arrangement as the corporate entity gets their cut even if the franchise is losing on the transaction. Thinking about opening a franchise store in any business, do your homework first! -Doug

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You only had to try once to make a return.  The guy you talked to gets a hundred irate types a week, some of whom refuse to realize the validity of what he’s telling them.  Think about it. Also http://www.woodfinishingsupplies.com/  sells whatever flavor you might like, and it’s good stuff. The fact that he made it seem like an incredibly huge hassle to exchange a $4 can of shellac is what makes me refuse to go back there. Combined, the staff must have said ‘Franchise’ about 10 times. Just say you can or can’t do it. I don’t want to hear a corporate schpiel. And the fact that the moment I showed them what I was exchanging, the first guy said ‘We don’t have that, can’t do it.’

CHOP

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Why bother?  Buy flakes and alcohol, make it yourself, and then you know the exact "born-on" date. Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The fact that he made it seem like an incredibly huge hassle to exchange a $4 can of shellac is what makes me refuse to go back there. Combined, the staff must have said ‘Franchise’ about 10 times. Just say you can or can’t do it. I don’t want to hear a corporate schpiel. And the fact that the moment I showed them what I was exchanging, the first guy said ‘We don’t have that, can’t do it.’ Ace is the only one to carry Bulls Eye amber shellac [Home Depot only stocks clear]. I’m going to have to go back to Lowes to check out the Parks Orange Shellac, but A) it’s a huge can that I don’t need and B) I don’t remember it having any kind of ‘manufactured on’ date when I looked at it, so I’d have no clue how old it is. No, I don’t want to mail order flakes when I only need enough to cover a 3" x 4′ surface with it. He was doing you a big favor by accepting your return, he had no obligation to do so, and it probably would have caused a minor glitch in the store’s accounting for inventory.  I’d certainly be going back to that store, they seem to be good people in spite of their (acceptable) policy. JE

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Needless to say, I didn’t return it. Nor will I ever be doing business with that particular store ever again.

Did you ever do business in that particular store?

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He was going to refund $$ on product that you didn’t buy there, and you’re pissed over a dollar. Go figure. I’d just guess that if you added your gas to your time for you to goto the store that you actually bought the product from that you’d be miles behind the small compromise. You may want to think twice about never shopping in that store again. Based on what you’ve said here, that’s precisely the store I’d aim for. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – See above thread on expired shellac – it won’t dry on glass, so I brought it back. However, since I had to drive in the other direction today, I thought I’d bring it to the Ace Hardware in /that/ direction and see if they had any fresher cans. I walk into the store and there’s a HUGE sign on the front window – No Hassle Return Policy On Refunds And Exchanges – Your Reciept Proves It! Okay, no problem. So I go in and someone comes up to help me. He immediately says ‘Well you didn’t buy it HERE. We don’t even carry this, but if we did, we wouldn’t HAVE to exchange it’. An older worker comes up and says that they DO carry it, and I go over and all of those are expired too. So I ask for a refund. First he says once again, you didn’t buy it here, so we don’t HAVE to give you your money back. This is a FRANCHISE, not a CHAIN. But we’ll do it anyway. So I get to the front register and he tells me ‘Well, the price is a dollar less here. If you want your money back, we can only give you OUR price on it, not theirs’. Needless to say, I didn’t return it. Nor will I ever be doing business with that particular store ever again. But my real question is – is that even LEGAL in Florida?

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Sorta like I bought something from your brother and want you to take it back and give me my money back for it.  It may be the same name but you weren’t involved in the sale because it wasn’t your business. A franchise buys from the same place another franchise does (Ace in this case).  However, Ace has nothing to do with the profit and loss.  Certainly he can return the product and get credit but it does require him doing something to help you out when you didn’t buy it there.  On top of that, you’re complaining because he won’t give you the price you paid which was a dollar higher than he sells for.  Keep in mind, even reimbursing you his cost, he is still losing money because he is only going to get credit for the amount he paid for it from Ace.  That’s still money out of his pocket on top of the extra hassle to handle something you didn’t buy from him. And you think he’s not going to a hassle? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The fact that he made it seem like an incredibly huge hassle to exchange a $4 can of shellac is what makes me refuse to go back there. Combined, the staff must have said ‘Franchise’ about 10 times. Just say you can or can’t do it. I don’t want to hear a corporate schpiel. And the fact that the moment I showed them what I was exchanging, the first guy said ‘We don’t have that, can’t do it.’ Ace is the only one to carry Bulls Eye amber shellac [Home Depot only stocks clear]. I’m going to have to go back to Lowes to check out the Parks Orange Shellac, but A) it’s a huge can that I don’t need and B) I don’t remember it having any kind of ‘manufactured on’ date when I looked at it, so I’d have no clue how old it is. No, I don’t want to mail order flakes when I only need enough to cover a 3" x 4′ surface with it. He was doing you a big favor by accepting your return, he had no obligation to do so, and it probably would have caused a minor glitch in the store’s accounting for inventory.  I’d certainly be going back to that store, they seem to be good people in spite of their (acceptable) policy. JE

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Yahbut, the nice thing about flakes is that they don’t expire, ever.  You mix only what you need.  You can buy half a pound, maybe even 4 oz, or buy a sample pack from Liberon/Star, and only mix what you have to use.  The other problem with the canned stuff is that it is not dewaxed, so it has less water resistance than dewaxed flake shellac. I use the bullseye stuff occasionally, whan I’m building a bookshelf or something that won’t be the centerpiece of attention, but I much prefer mixing my own.  The bullseye sealcoat is dewaxed shellac, you might try that. JE – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The fact that he made it seem like an incredibly huge hassle to exchange a $4 can of shellac is what makes me refuse to go back there. Combined, the staff must have said ‘Franchise’ about 10 times. Just say you can or can’t do it. I don’t want to hear a corporate schpiel. And the fact that the moment I showed them what I was exchanging, the first guy said ‘We don’t have that, can’t do it.’ Ace is the only one to carry Bulls Eye amber shellac [Home Depot only stocks clear]. I’m going to have to go back to Lowes to check out the Parks Orange Shellac, but A) it’s a huge can that I don’t need and B) I don’t remember it having any kind of ‘manufactured on’ date when I looked at it, so I’d have no clue how old it is. No, I don’t want to mail order flakes when I only need enough to cover a 3" x 4′ surface with it. He was doing you a big favor by accepting your return, he had no obligation to do so, and it probably would have caused a minor glitch in the store’s accounting for inventory.  I’d certainly be going back to that store, they seem to be good people in spite of their (acceptable) policy. JE

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Having worked in a ‘franchised’ craft store for two years, that would accept returns from other stores even if half used, and having gone through many customers myself, I don’t have much sympathy for people with little knowledge of their products or who spout company policy to save fifty cents. Major rule of retail sales. If you don’t know, find someone who works there that does. Don’t ever tell the customer ‘We don’t have it’ if you’re not sure yourself. Also, it’s easier to satisfy the customer than to lose the money for the 10 customers you lose once a dissatisfied customer leaves and tells their friends. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You only had to try once to make a return.  The guy you talked to gets a hundred irate types a week, some of whom refuse to realize the validity of what he’s telling them.  Think about it.

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This is a FRANCHISE, not a CHAIN. But we’ll do it anyway.

That should answer your question right there. A franchise store does not have to accept returns on inventory purchased elsewhere.  Even a chain store doesn’t have to. So I get to the front register and he tells me ‘Well, the price is a dollar less here. If you want your money back, we can only give you OUR price on it, not theirs’. Needless to say, I didn’t return it. Nor will I ever be doing business with that particular store ever again. But my real question is – is that even LEGAL in Florida?

He was doing you a big favor by accepting your return, he had no obligation to do so, and it probably would have caused a minor glitch in the store’s accounting for inventory.  I’d certainly be going back to that store, they seem to be good people in spite of their (acceptable) policy. JE

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See above thread on expired shellac – it won’t dry on glass, so I brought it back. However, since I had to drive in the other direction today, I thought I’d bring it to the Ace Hardware in /that/ direction and see if they had any fresher cans. I walk into the store and there’s a HUGE sign on the front window – No Hassle Return Policy On Refunds And Exchanges – Your Reciept Proves It! Okay, no problem. So I go in and someone comes up to help me. He immediately says ‘Well you didn’t buy it HERE. We don’t even carry this, but if we did, we wouldn’t HAVE to exchange it’. An older worker comes up and says that they DO carry it, and I go over and all of those are expired too. So I ask for a refund. First he says once again, you didn’t buy it here, so we don’t HAVE to give you your money back. This is a FRANCHISE, not a CHAIN. But we’ll do it anyway. So I get to the front register and he tells me ‘Well, the price is a dollar less here. If you want your money back, we can only give you OUR price on it, not theirs’. Needless to say, I didn’t return it. Nor will I ever be doing business with that particular store ever again. But my real question is – is that even LEGAL in Florida?

Response:

Question:

Thank you all for you advice so far, but as depressing as it may be, I think I really have to just stick with it for the time being.  I have come to understand just *how* mentally unbalanced my hb is and with that realization, I am just going to have to untangle myself and my affairs (financial and emotional, not romantic tho I wish:-) quietly behind his back.  One day, he’ll come home and I won’t and he won’t have anything to hold over me ever again.   I really appreciate it so much that you guys re:posted to me.  Sometimes I am just dying to get away, but then reality hits and I remember how good it will be if I can hang in there.  When I am gone, I will pick my nails really loud!  I am going to blast my Grease CD (he doesn’t know I bought it again after he broke the last one, he hates Grease, how stupid!)  I am going to be ME, OWNER OF MYSELF!  G-d help the poor fool that I marry if I ever do again, he will never have a homemade meal!  Sorry, felt good to vent.  I allow myself to get excited when he’s not around, back in disguise when he’s home. I am working on finishing my associates in accounting, I may not have quite a year left, but I’d rather not plan myself too short.  I do have access to some school resources which I am already taking advantage of, but it’s a small college, no dorms, and I am tapped out on student loans.  Btw, we already live on beans, he calls it his paycheck, hahahahah (ok, that was really mean, but it felt so damn good!).  The financial aid I can receive from DFACS is 250/mo and I am already getting a pell grant which is about 900 every 31/2 mos.  Oh lord, I gotta cut this short and send it, he’s home, no problem, just being extra secretive…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Evil Villain here. Why don’t you file for a separation and have him moved from the house for a while with a stipulation that he not get back in until he has a bit of anger management under his belt and some counseling ( with maybe some meds for his obsessive behaviors ). If he can do that you may have a shot beyond divorce. Evil Villain, Thank you for your advice, I didn’t know that I could do that. If it weren’t for the fact that he is the income provider (while not much, its more than I can contribute right now which is 0) and would stop paying at least the mortgage, if not everything, then I would definitely do that. … -Laura B (Damsel in Distress) Evil Wimmenz (aka Demoness Diva) here… How about a roommate rent-paying? Janie — The reason why rivers and seas receive the homage of a hundred mountain streams is that they keep below them.  – Lao Tse

Response:

Lots of stuff snipped I went back to school to get my degree as I figured I better find something productive to do with my time since I was laid off last September and have not found even 1 job (haven’t even been called to an interview!).  I feel as though school (I can’t be too far from the truth) is my salvation as w/o my degree and a good job after, I won’t be able to have the financial ability to leave.  I have exactly 1 year before I graduate if I can stick with it.

Its great that you are going to school.  Do you mind if I ask what your major is? feel some kind of action is needed, but I feel we should hold off on getting a divorce until I finish school so that we can be able to equally support our daughter (we barely survive on his paycheck If I had someplace to go, in a vehicle that I could use to find some kind of work in order to support myself and daughter, and still have some hope of returning to school in the near future (even though I cringe at the idea of quitting while I am so close to finishing), I would be out of here like a flash

Does your school have student housing? Is it possible for you and your daughter to live in student housing while you finish school?  Is it possible to get help from family, either a place to stay or help with babysitting? Then you could go ahead, sell your house, pay your mother back, and STILL stay in school.  It might mean taking out a student loan, it might mean living on beans for a year, but lots of people do this.   It makes for a rough year, but generally pays off in the long run.  Note: I’m not necessarily saying you have to leave your husband – only you can make that decision – I’m just saying that you may have access to other resources. As a student, you should have access to a lot of resources through your school – you can probably get free counseling, may be eligible for subsidized child care, health care through the school, or you may be eligible for an on-campus part time job to help support you and your daughter.  Any change in your income, like losing your husbands income, can possibly be offset by increased financial aid.  Talk to the financial aid and student affairs offices at your school.  They may be able to help you. S.B.

Response:

    Then I say file it, along with a restraining order, as well, since you seem to be afraid of him. The court will deal with the rest.      I might add, get a damned good attorney to file the appropriate paperwork for you. While he is unaware that this is about to happen, now is the proper time, otherwise, you WILL get a fight. I guarantee it.     Your attorney will know the particulars, just tell him what it is you want to do and leave it in his/her hands. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Evil Villain, Thank you for your advice, I didn’t know that I could do that.  If it weren’t for the fact that he is the income provider (while not much, its more than I can contribute right now which is 0) and would stop paying at least the mortgage, if not everything, then I would definitely do that.  I’m grateful for your advice as I am positive I will have a problem with him leaving when it gets closer to D-day (about 1 yr away if I can’t find another solution).  I know, I am kind of stuck.  I really don’t have much choice other than to deal with him for a year and play make-believe.  I know make believe will make it harder emotionally for him when D-day comes and there is a greater chance of complication at that time, but he says that as long as the papers say I am his wife, then I am and he will not act like anything but a husband.  My way of dealing with things I can’t change is to make jokes about them, though I am taking it seriously, so please don’t think I am being glib.  I just do whatever it takes to get through the day. Thank you again. -Laura B (Damsel in Distress)     Evil Villain here.     Why don’t you file for a separation and have him moved from the house for a while with a stipulation that he not get back in until he has a bit of anger management under his belt and some counseling ( with maybe some meds for his obsessive behaviors ). If he can do that you may have a shot beyond divorce. I have to stop thinking about this, it’s giving me a migraine, but there’s no chasing it away.  This is my first time posting here and I’m hoping for advice, but knowing most of my immediate options (corrections are welcome), I will settle for you all allowing me to vent (NO NEGATIVE COMMENTS PLEASE!!!). My husband and I have been married for almost 4 years, have a 3 y/o daughter, married when I was pregnant.  We had a whirlwind romance, moved into an apartment together and I got pregnant.  Before we found out I was pregnant, I was going to let our relationship dwindle and end after our lease was up.  It would drive me nuts that he would neglect any type of financial matter b/c he was busy cleaning.  I eventually took over his finances in addition to my own (I know, big mistake) b/c I hate housework and thought that could be our trade. Not that I never did any housework, but there was never anything to clean b/c he’s so quick and efficient.  Then it became a problem b/c he would take all the papers on my computer desk (bills to be paid, letters re: ins, important things!) and throw them out b/c "I couldn’t keep my desk clean".  Keep in mind that I have ADD and have had to learn my own way to cope with daily life and I have become almost obsessively organized since I started a (then) new med. Anything that didn’t need to be out had its place in files and drawers, so if it was out, it needed to be.  This progressed to my purse.  He wouldn’t go through it looking for anything, but he couldn’t stand to see it sitting there with papers sticking out, so he would go through it and empty out all my important papers and such.  I can recall so many times him standing there and telling me how he cleaned this one thing or another and expecting me to be so proud of him, yet I would be seething!  At first I asked him not to go through my purse and especially do not throw anything away.  The next time, it was as if it had never happened before.  I finally got really upset at about the 3rd or 4th time and screamed at him.  There are other almost identical situations to this one, but it seems to be the best example.  I still wonder ‘what is wrong with him, hello!!!’ He will get so mad at me about my ‘messy’ purse or desk, but for about the past 2 years, it has been worse.  He will put any kind of paper, newspaper, coupon, thing from the mail on my desk, on top of my ‘important papers’ and then get mad at the mess and throw everything out!  The same with my purse, he will stick trash in it, candy wrappers, a McD’s hamburger wrapper, then a few hours later, like he forgot HE did it, yell at me about my ‘trash can’.  As of yet, I have not been able to figure out if he is OCD, disrespectful, flat out insane, or a combination of all three. He’s not very organized (aren’t OCD people super organized?), he has his good days and he is very respectful to my face (just not to my stuff).  I don’t want it to seem like I want to leave or these little things, even though they are huge to me, but they are just the best examples of how frustrating he is. We are the absolute worst paring, he is wound so tight, always early, house always looks spotless, though not organized at all (disarray shoved into drawars); while I am pretty laid back, things will get done as they appear on my prioritized to do list (I have to have lists, otherwise won’t remember anything) usually running on time, but not in a rush.  I like to know where everything is and I put things back in the same place everytime so I can find it again (my memory is really terrible so I need to do this).  He just puts things wherever he wants.  I have just recently learned to check the top shelf in our closet for my shoes.  I usually keep them out of the way, but next to the door in the laundry room so I don’t forget them on my way out wishing I were kidding.   For years I have felt almost unfunctionable b/c nothing of mine is sacred, I will never know where anything is, no matter where I put it, b/c no place is sacred.  I know he doesn’t do this to bother me, it just doesn’t occur to him that he is sabotaging me (even though I tell him this, it’s only retained until he can’t take it anymore and feels compelled to clean my desk out).  He has been to many therapists, one told him to not come back until he was commited to the therapy (in hbnd’s defense, this guy was a jerk on prev. occasions as well, but did it occur to hbnd to find another therapist? no), after that, he didn’t look for another therapist, so I started hinting that we go together.  We did, but that didn’t work b/c once at home, he went back to autopilot.  There were a few other therapists since then, always a good reason for not seeing them anymore (no longer covered by ins, moved to different area), but it wasn’t like he thought to find another one, it was always me that had to call and make the appointment.  His temper is terrible and getting worse, god forbid he trip and stub his toe, he will let loose a slew of the most awful words you have ever heard at the top of his lungs. It used to be thoroughly embarrassing, not as much anymore b/c I’ve learned people look at HIM like he’s crazy, not me.  Today was the last straw and I want to have made a decision by Friday.  He smashed the windshield on our 1 vehicle with his fist b/c ‘the wipers that A**hole at walmart sold me are pieces of sh**!’  He hasn’t hit me or our daughter, but I don’t want either of us being exposed to his rage fits.  I love the person that he is when he’s not insane, but I can’t deal with another day involving his fits, especially since I am having a hard enough time keeping up with my own business.  Yes, I have had people tell me ‘you’ve got to leave him’ but it’s not too easy to move out of the house my mother financed in her name as he has threatened to stop paying the mortgage if I do.  I went back to school to get my degree as I figured I better find something productive to do with my time since I was laid off last September and have not found even 1 job (haven’t even been called to an interview!).  I feel as though school (I can’t be too far from the truth) is my salvation as w/o my degree and a good job after, I won’t be able to have the financial ability to leave.  I have exactly 1 year before I graduate if I can stick with it.  On one of his reasonably sane days, I sat him down and talked to him about how I felt and that it’s hard to stay in love with the sane person he is and at the same time hate the insane one.  I told him that I am unhappy to the point that I feel some kind of action is needed, but I feel we should hold off on getting a divorce until I finish school so that we can be able to equally support our daughter (we barely survive on his paycheck), we can sell our house so it doesn’t affect my mother in any negative way since she didn’t have to help us originally and was reluctant, but still did, so that we can both try and work things out as friends and most importantly so that the transition can be made as smooth as possible on our daughter as she will be upset enough w/o add’l worries.  Of course I realize I benefit the most from this, but I explained I would agree to pay him back for what he supported me while I was in school or help out in some other comparable way.  I agreed not to see anyone else until the divorce is final, not that I am now or have ever during our

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Response:

  Evil Villain, Thank you for your advice, I didn’t know that I could do that.  If it weren’t for the fact that he is the income provider (while not much, its more than I can contribute right now which is 0) and would stop paying at least the mortgage, if not everything, then I would definitely do that.  I’m grateful for your advice as I am positive I will have a problem with him leaving when it gets closer to D-day (about 1 yr away if I can’t find another solution).  I know, I am kind of stuck.  I really don’t have much choice other than to deal with him for a year and play make-believe.  I know make believe will make it harder emotionally for him when D-day comes and there is a greater chance of complication at that time, but he says that as long as the papers say I am his wife, then I am and he will not act like anything but a husband.  My way of dealing with things I can’t change is to make jokes about them, though I am taking it seriously, so please don’t think I am being glib.  I just do whatever it takes to get through the day. Thank you again. -Laura B (Damsel in Distress)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Evil Villain here.     Why don’t you file for a separation and have him moved from the house for a while with a stipulation that he not get back in until he has a bit of anger management under his belt and some counseling ( with maybe some meds for his obsessive behaviors ). If he can do that you may have a shot beyond divorce. I have to stop thinking about this, it’s giving me a migraine, but there’s no chasing it away.  This is my first time posting here and I’m hoping for advice, but knowing most of my immediate options (corrections are welcome), I will settle for you all allowing me to vent (NO NEGATIVE COMMENTS PLEASE!!!). My husband and I have been married for almost 4 years, have a 3 y/o daughter, married when I was pregnant.  We had a whirlwind romance, moved into an apartment together and I got pregnant.  Before we found out I was pregnant, I was going to let our relationship dwindle and end after our lease was up.  It would drive me nuts that he would neglect any type of financial matter b/c he was busy cleaning.  I eventually took over his finances in addition to my own (I know, big mistake) b/c I hate housework and thought that could be our trade. Not that I never did any housework, but there was never anything to clean b/c he’s so quick and efficient.  Then it became a problem b/c he would take all the papers on my computer desk (bills to be paid, letters re: ins, important things!) and throw them out b/c "I couldn’t keep my desk clean".  Keep in mind that I have ADD and have had to learn my own way to cope with daily life and I have become almost obsessively organized since I started a (then) new med. Anything that didn’t need to be out had its place in files and drawers, so if it was out, it needed to be.  This progressed to my purse.  He wouldn’t go through it looking for anything, but he couldn’t stand to see it sitting there with papers sticking out, so he would go through it and empty out all my important papers and such.  I can recall so many times him standing there and telling me how he cleaned this one thing or another and expecting me to be so proud of him, yet I would be seething!  At first I asked him not to go through my purse and especially do not throw anything away.  The next time, it was as if it had never happened before.  I finally got really upset at about the 3rd or 4th time and screamed at him.  There are other almost identical situations to this one, but it seems to be the best example.  I still wonder ‘what is wrong with him, hello!!!’ He will get so mad at me about my ‘messy’ purse or desk, but for about the past 2 years, it has been worse.  He will put any kind of paper, newspaper, coupon, thing from the mail on my desk, on top of my ‘important papers’ and then get mad at the mess and throw everything out!  The same with my purse, he will stick trash in it, candy wrappers, a McD’s hamburger wrapper, then a few hours later, like he forgot HE did it, yell at me about my ‘trash can’.  As of yet, I have not been able to figure out if he is OCD,  disrespectful, flat out insane, or a combination of all three.  He’s not very organized (aren’t OCD people super organized?), he has his good days and he is very respectful to my face (just not to my stuff).  I don’t want it to seem like I want to leave or these little things, even though they are huge to me, but they are just the best examples of how frustrating he is. We are the absolute worst paring, he is wound so tight, always early, house always looks spotless, though not organized at all (disarray shoved into drawars); while I am pretty laid back, things will get done as they appear on my prioritized to do list (I have to have lists, otherwise won’t remember anything) usually running on time, but not in a rush.  I like to know where everything is and I put things back in the same place everytime so I can find it again (my memory is really terrible so I need to do this).  He just puts things wherever he wants.  I have just recently learned to check the top shelf in our closet for my shoes.  I usually keep them out of the way, but next to the door in the laundry room so I don’t forget them on my way out wishing I were kidding.   For years I have felt almost unfunctionable b/c nothing of mine is sacred, I will never know where anything is, no matter where I put it, b/c no place is sacred.  I know he doesn’t do this to bother me, it just doesn’t occur to him that he is sabotaging me (even though I tell him this, it’s only retained until he can’t take it anymore and feels compelled to clean my desk out).  He has been to many therapists, one told him to not come back until he was commited to the therapy (in hbnd’s defense, this guy was a jerk on prev. occasions as well, but did it occur to hbnd to find another therapist? no), after that, he didn’t look for another therapist, so I started hinting that we go together.  We did, but that didn’t work b/c once at home, he went back to autopilot.  There were a few other therapists since then, always a good reason for not seeing them anymore (no longer covered by ins, moved to different area), but it wasn’t like he thought to find another one, it was always me that had to call and make the appointment.  His temper is terrible and getting worse, god forbid he trip and stub his toe, he will let loose a slew of the most awful words you have ever heard at the top of his lungs. It used to be thoroughly embarrassing, not as much anymore b/c I’ve learned people look at HIM like he’s crazy, not me.  Today was the last straw and I want to have made a decision by Friday.  He smashed the windshield on our 1 vehicle with his fist b/c ‘the wipers that A**hole at walmart sold me are pieces of sh**!’  He hasn’t hit me or our daughter, but I don’t want either of us being exposed to his rage fits.  I love the person that he is when he’s not insane, but I can’t deal with another day involving his fits, especially since I am having a hard enough time keeping up with my own business.  Yes, I have had people tell me ‘you’ve got to leave him’ but it’s not too easy to move out of the house my mother financed in her name as he has threatened to stop paying the mortgage if I do.  I went back to school to get my degree as I figured I better find something productive to do with my time since I was laid off last September and have not found even 1 job (haven’t even been called to an interview!).  I feel as though school (I can’t be too far from the truth) is my salvation as w/o my degree and a good job after, I won’t be able to have the financial ability to leave.  I have exactly 1 year before I graduate if I can stick with it.  On one of his reasonably sane days, I sat him down and talked to him about how I felt and that it’s hard to stay in love with the sane person he is and at the same time hate the insane one.  I told him that I am unhappy to the point that I feel some kind of action is needed, but I feel we should hold off on getting a divorce until I finish school so that we can be able to equally support our daughter (we barely survive on his paycheck), we can sell our house so it doesn’t affect my mother in any negative way since she didn’t have to help us originally and was reluctant, but still did, so that we can both try and work things out as friends and most importantly so that the transition can be made as smooth as possible on our daughter as she will be upset enough w/o add’l worries.  Of course I realize I benefit the most from this, but I explained I would agree to pay him back for what he supported me while I was in school or help out in some other comparable way.  I agreed not to see anyone else until the divorce is final, not that I am now or have ever during our relationship.  He completely accepted all of this, but his biggest concern?  He is seriously pissed that in the mean time, we can’t play husband and wife.  His thinking of me as his wife is where I think a part of the problem comes in.  I’m not his *wife*, I am *his* wife, therefore anything of mine is his also.  Also, being his wife means I have to take responsibility for his anger and the consequences of it (you pissed me off therefore made me punch the hole in the wall). I’ve tried to explain to him in his own reasoning (real

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Response:

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. You’re in a hell of a situation, and my heart goes out to you. But you two do need a separation, this can’t be good for your little girl. You will get some sound advice here from the regulars, just take it with a grain of salt. Keep us updated. Take care, Cheesy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to stop thinking about this, it’s giving me a migraine, but there’s no chasing it away.  This is my first time posting here and I’m hoping for advice, but knowing most of my immediate options (corrections are welcome), I will settle for you all allowing me to vent (NO NEGATIVE COMMENTS PLEASE!!!). My husband and I have been married for almost 4 years, have a 3 y/o daughter, married when I was pregnant.  We had a whirlwind romance, moved into an apartment together and I got pregnant.  Before we found out I was pregnant, I was going to let our relationship dwindle and end after our lease was up.  It would drive me nuts that he would neglect any type of financial matter b/c he was busy cleaning.  I eventually took over his finances in addition to my own (I know, big mistake) b/c I hate housework and thought that could be our trade.  Not that I never did any housework, but there was never anything to clean b/c he’s so quick and efficient. Then it became a problem b/c he would take all the papers on my computer desk (bills to be paid, letters re: ins, important things!) and throw them out b/c "I couldn’t keep my desk clean".  Keep in mind that I have ADD and have had to learn my own way to cope with daily life and I have become almost obsessively organized since I started a (then) new med.  Anything that didn’t need to be out had its place in files and drawers, so if it was out, it needed to be.  This progressed to my purse.  He wouldn’t go through it looking for anything, but he couldn’t stand to see it sitting there with papers sticking out, so he would go through it and empty out all my important papers and such.  I can recall so many times him standing there and telling me how he cleaned this one thing or another and expecting me to be so proud of him, yet I would be seething!  At first I asked him not to go through my purse and especially do not throw anything away.  The next time, it was as if it had never happened before.  I finally got really upset at about the 3rd or 4th time and screamed at him.  There are other almost identical situations to this one, but it seems to be the best example.  I still wonder ‘what is wrong with him, hello!!!’  He will get so mad at me about my ‘messy’ purse or desk, but for about the past 2 years, it has been worse.  He will put any kind of paper, newspaper, coupon, thing from the mail on my desk, on top of my ‘important papers’ and then get mad at the mess and throw everything out!  The same with my purse, he will stick trash in it, candy wrappers, a McD’s hamburger wrapper, then a few hours later, like he forgot HE did it, yell at me about my ‘trash can’.  As of yet, I have not been able to figure out if he is OCD,  disrespectful, flat out insane, or a combination of all three.  He’s not very organized (aren’t OCD people super organized?), he has his good days and he is very respectful to my face (just not to my stuff).  I don’t want it to seem like I want to leave or these little things, even though they are huge to me, but they are just the best examples of how frustrating he is. We are the absolute worst paring, he is wound so tight, always early, house always looks spotless, though not organized at all (disarray shoved into drawars); while I am pretty laid back, things will get done as they appear on my prioritized to do list (I have to have lists, otherwise won’t remember anything) usually running on time, but not in a rush.  I like to know where everything is and I put things back in the same place everytime so I can find it again (my memory is really terrible so I need to do this).  He just puts things wherever he wants.  I have just recently learned to check the top shelf in our closet for my shoes.  I usually keep them out of the way, but next to the door in the laundry room so I don’t forget them on my way out wishing I were kidding.   For years I have felt almost unfunctionable b/c nothing of mine is sacred, I will never know where anything is, no matter where I put it, b/c no place is sacred.  I know he doesn’t do this to bother me, it just doesn’t occur to him that he is sabotaging me (even though I tell him this, it’s only retained until he can’t take it anymore and feels compelled to clean my desk out).  He has been to many therapists, one told him to not come back until he was commited to the therapy (in hbnd’s defense, this guy was a jerk on prev. occasions as well, but did it occur to hbnd to find another therapist? no), after that, he didn’t look for another therapist, so I started hinting that we go together.  We did, but that didn’t work b/c once at home, he went back to autopilot.  There were a few other therapists since then, always a good reason for not seeing them anymore (no longer covered by ins, moved to different area), but it wasn’t like he thought to find another one, it was always me that had to call and make the appointment.  His temper is terrible and getting worse, god forbid he trip and stub his toe, he will let loose a slew of the most awful words you have ever heard at the top of his lungs. It used to be thoroughly embarrassing, not as much anymore b/c I’ve learned people look at HIM like he’s crazy, not me.  Today was the last straw and I want to have made a decision by Friday.  He smashed the windshield on our 1 vehicle with his fist b/c ‘the wipers that A**hole at walmart sold me are pieces of sh**!’  He hasn’t hit me or our daughter, but I don’t want either of us being exposed to his rage fits.  I love the person that he is when he’s not insane, but I can’t deal with another day involving his fits, especially since I am having a hard enough time keeping up with my own business.  Yes, I have had people tell me ‘you’ve got to leave him’ but it’s not too easy to move out of the house my mother financed in her name as he has threatened to stop paying the mortgage if I do.  I went back to school to get my degree as I figured I better find something productive to do with my time since I was laid off last September and have not found even 1 job (haven’t even been called to an interview!).  I feel as though school (I can’t be too far from the truth) is my salvation as w/o my degree and a good job after, I won’t be able to have the financial ability to leave.  I have exactly 1 year before I graduate if I can stick with it.  On one of his reasonably sane days, I sat him down and talked to him about how I felt and that it’s hard to stay in love with the sane person he is and at the same time hate the insane one.  I told him that I am unhappy to the point that I feel some kind of action is needed, but I feel we should hold off on getting a divorce until I finish school so that we can be able to equally support our daughter (we barely survive on his paycheck), we can sell our house so it doesn’t affect my mother in any negative way since she didn’t have to help us originally and was reluctant, but still did, so that we can both try and work things out as friends and most importantly so that the transition can be made as smooth as possible on our daughter as she will be upset enough w/o add’l worries.  Of course I realize I benefit the most from this, but I explained I would agree to pay him back for what he supported me while I was in school or help out in some other comparable way.  I agreed not to see anyone else until the divorce is final, not that I am now or have ever during our relationship.  He completely accepted all of this, but his biggest concern?  He is seriously pissed that in the mean time, we can’t play husband and wife.  His thinking of me as his wife is where I think a part of the problem comes in.  I’m not his *wife*, I am *his* wife, therefore anything of mine is his also.  Also, being his wife means I have to take responsibility for his anger and the consequences of it (you pissed me off therefore made me punch the hole in the wall).  I’ve tried to explain to him in his own reasoning (real people reasoning holds nothing for him) that if he was no longer emotionally attached to me, then he wouldn’t get so mad and punch the wall, unless he gets mad and punches walls regardless of me.  I don’t know what else to tell him, I think he is agreeing to the rest and using this one thing as the ‘deal breaker’ excuse.  If I had someplace to go, in a vehicle that I could use to find some kind of work in order to support myself and daughter, and still have some hope of returning to school in the near future (even though I cringe at the idea of quitting while I am so close to finishing), I would be out of here like a flash.  My hope was that we could create a peaceful home (hah, fantasyland I guess) where we can take our own corners and ride the next year to a better financial position for both of us.  I also want to try and be honest about this and not make it a nasty fight about everything, but I am not against lying my ass off and pretending for the next year.  I will hate every second of it, but I will be able to have some kind of hope in mine and my daughter’s future.  I don’t want to have to screw him, but I will is what I am saying.  I feel like he’s forcing my hand and he’s not going to like it when it comes to fruition. At what point do I shut my mouth, smile and nod and begin plans for myself and my daughter?  I don’t want to have to do this, I am not too good at

… read more »

Response:

I have to stop thinking about this, it’s giving me a migraine, but there’s no chasing it away.  This is my first time posting here and I’m hoping for advice, but knowing most of my immediate options (corrections are welcome), I will settle for you all allowing me to vent (NO NEGATIVE COMMENTS PLEASE!!!). My husband and I have been married for almost 4 years, have a 3 y/o daughter, married when I was pregnant.  We had a whirlwind romance, moved into an apartment together and I got pregnant.  Before we found out I was pregnant, I was going to let our relationship dwindle and end after our lease was up.  It would drive me nuts that he would neglect any type of financial matter b/c he was busy cleaning.  I eventually took over his finances in addition to my own (I know, big mistake) b/c I hate housework and thought that could be our trade.  Not that I never did any housework, but there was never anything to clean b/c he’s so quick and efficient.  Then it became a problem b/c he would take all the papers on my computer desk (bills to be paid, letters re: ins, important things!) and throw them out b/c "I couldn’t keep my desk clean".  Keep in mind that I have ADD and have had to learn my own way to cope with daily life and I have become almost obsessively organized since I started a (then) new med.  Anything that didn’t need to be out had its place in files and drawers, so if it was out, it needed to be.  This progressed to my purse.  He wouldn’t go through it looking for anything, but he couldn’t stand to see it sitting there with papers sticking out, so he would go through it and empty out all my important papers and such.  I can recall so many times him standing there and telling me how he cleaned this one thing or another and expecting me to be so proud of him, yet I would be seething!  At first I asked him not to go through my purse and especially do not throw anything away.  The next time, it was as if it had never happened before.  I finally got really upset at about the 3rd or 4th time and screamed at him.  There are other almost identical situations to this one, but it seems to be the best example.  I still wonder ‘what is wrong with him, hello!!!’  He will get so mad at me about my ‘messy’ purse or desk, but for about the past 2 years, it has been worse.  He will put any kind of paper, newspaper, coupon, thing from the mail on my desk, on top of my ‘important papers’ and then get mad at the mess and throw everything out!  The same with my purse, he will stick trash in it, candy wrappers, a McD’s hamburger wrapper, then a few hours later, like he forgot HE did it, yell at me about my ‘trash can’.  As of yet, I have not been able to figure out if he is OCD,  disrespectful, flat out insane, or a combination of all three.  He’s not very organized (aren’t OCD people super organized?), he has his good days and he is very respectful to my face (just not to my stuff).  I don’t want it to seem like I want to leave or these little things, even though they are huge to me, but they are just the best examples of how frustrating he is. We are the absolute worst paring, he is wound so tight, always early, house always looks spotless, though not organized at all (disarray shoved into drawars); while I am pretty laid back, things will get done as they appear on my prioritized to do list (I have to have lists, otherwise won’t remember anything) usually running on time, but not in a rush.  I like to know where everything is and I put things back in the same place everytime so I can find it again (my memory is really terrible so I need to do this).  He just puts things wherever he wants.  I have just recently learned to check the top shelf in our closet for my shoes.  I usually keep them out of the way, but next to the door in the laundry room so I don’t forget them on my way out wishing I were kidding.   For years I have felt almost unfunctionable b/c nothing of mine is sacred, I will never know where anything is, no matter where I put it, b/c no place is sacred.  I know he doesn’t do this to bother me, it just doesn’t occur to him that he is sabotaging me (even though I tell him this, it’s only retained until he can’t take it anymore and feels compelled to clean my desk out).  He has been to many therapists, one told him to not come back until he was commited to the therapy (in hbnd’s defense, this guy was a jerk on prev. occasions as well, but did it occur to hbnd to find another therapist? no), after that, he didn’t look for another therapist, so I started hinting that we go together.  We did, but that didn’t work b/c once at home, he went back to autopilot.  There were a few other therapists since then, always a good reason for not seeing them anymore (no longer covered by ins, moved to different area), but it wasn’t like he thought to find another one, it was always me that had to call and make the appointment.  His temper is terrible and getting worse, god forbid he trip and stub his toe, he will let loose a slew of the most awful words you have ever heard at the top of his lungs. It used to be thoroughly embarrassing, not as much anymore b/c I’ve learned people look at HIM like he’s crazy, not me.  Today was the last straw and I want to have made a decision by Friday.  He smashed the windshield on our 1 vehicle with his fist b/c ‘the wipers that A**hole at walmart sold me are pieces of sh**!’  He hasn’t hit me or our daughter, but I don’t want either of us being exposed to his rage fits.  I love the person that he is when he’s not insane, but I can’t deal with another day involving his fits, especially since I am having a hard enough time keeping up with my own business.  Yes, I have had people tell me ‘you’ve got to leave him’ but it’s not too easy to move out of the house my mother financed in her name as he has threatened to stop paying the mortgage if I do.  I went back to school to get my degree as I figured I better find something productive to do with my time since I was laid off last September and have not found even 1 job (haven’t even been called to an interview!).  I feel as though school (I can’t be too far from the truth) is my salvation as w/o my degree and a good job after, I won’t be able to have the financial ability to leave.  I have exactly 1 year before I graduate if I can stick with it.  On one of his reasonably sane days, I sat him down and talked to him about how I felt and that it’s hard to stay in love with the sane person he is and at the same time hate the insane one.  I told him that I am unhappy to the point that I feel some kind of action is needed, but I feel we should hold off on getting a divorce until I finish school so that we can be able to equally support our daughter (we barely survive on his paycheck), we can sell our house so it doesn’t affect my mother in any negative way since she didn’t have to help us originally and was reluctant, but still did, so that we can both try and work things out as friends and most importantly so that the transition can be made as smooth as possible on our daughter as she will be upset enough w/o add’l worries.  Of course I realize I benefit the most from this, but I explained I would agree to pay him back for what he supported me while I was in school or help out in some other comparable way.  I agreed not to see anyone else until the divorce is final, not that I am now or have ever during our relationship.  He completely accepted all of this, but his biggest concern?  He is seriously pissed that in the mean time, we can’t play husband and wife.  His thinking of me as his wife is where I think a part of the problem comes in.  I’m not his *wife*, I am *his* wife, therefore anything of mine is his also.  Also, being his wife means I have to take responsibility for his anger and the consequences of it (you pissed me off therefore made me punch the hole in the wall).  I’ve tried to explain to him in his own reasoning (real people reasoning holds nothing for him) that if he was no longer emotionally attached to me, then he wouldn’t get so mad and punch the wall, unless he gets mad and punches walls regardless of me.  I don’t know what else to tell him, I think he is agreeing to the rest and using this one thing as the ‘deal breaker’ excuse.  If I had someplace to go, in a vehicle that I could use to find some kind of work in order to support myself and daughter, and still have some hope of returning to school in the near future (even though I cringe at the idea of quitting while I am so close to finishing), I would be out of here like a flash.  My hope was that we could create a peaceful home (hah, fantasyland I guess) where we can take our own corners and ride the next year to a better financial position for both of us.  I also want to try and be honest about this and not make it a nasty fight about everything, but I am not against lying my ass off and pretending for the next year.  I will hate every second of it, but I will be able to have some kind of hope in mine and my daughter’s future.  I don’t want to have to screw him, but I will is what I am saying.  I feel like he’s forcing my hand and he’s not going to like it when it comes to fruition. At what point do I shut my mouth, smile and nod and begin plans for myself and my daughter?  I don’t want to have to do this, I am not too good at living a lie or being submissive, so it means being yelled at alot, but I will do my damnedest to hold on for as long as I can.  My options seem to be to me: ‘Stay and pay daily consequences with some almost definite hope for furture’ or ‘leave and pay fewer consequences that are of greater magnatude’.  I have talked to others (2) and they say options are 1: ‘be smart and leave’ or ‘be stupid and stay’, but I have always been one to ‘think before I leap’ and am therefore resistant to their advice as leaving seems too much like instant gratification without any preparation or precaution.  I already made that mistake when continuing this relationship after I … read more »

Response:

    Evil Villain here.     Why don’t you file for a separation and have him moved from the house for a while with a stipulation that he not get back in until he has a bit of anger management under his belt and some counseling ( with maybe some meds for his obsessive behaviors ). If he can do that you may have a shot beyond divorce. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to stop thinking about this, it’s giving me a migraine, but there’s no chasing it away.  This is my first time posting here and I’m hoping for advice, but knowing most of my immediate options (corrections are welcome), I will settle for you all allowing me to vent (NO NEGATIVE COMMENTS PLEASE!!!). My husband and I have been married for almost 4 years, have a 3 y/o daughter, married when I was pregnant.  We had a whirlwind romance, moved into an apartment together and I got pregnant.  Before we found out I was pregnant, I was going to let our relationship dwindle and end after our lease was up.  It would drive me nuts that he would neglect any type of financial matter b/c he was busy cleaning.  I eventually took over his finances in addition to my own (I know, big mistake) b/c I hate housework and thought that could be our trade. Not that I never did any housework, but there was never anything to clean b/c he’s so quick and efficient.  Then it became a problem b/c he would take all the papers on my computer desk (bills to be paid, letters re: ins, important things!) and throw them out b/c "I couldn’t keep my desk clean".  Keep in mind that I have ADD and have had to learn my own way to cope with daily life and I have become almost obsessively organized since I started a (then) new med. Anything that didn’t need to be out had its place in files and drawers, so if it was out, it needed to be.  This progressed to my purse.  He wouldn’t go through it looking for anything, but he couldn’t stand to see it sitting there with papers sticking out, so he would go through it and empty out all my important papers and such.  I can recall so many times him standing there and telling me how he cleaned this one thing or another and expecting me to be so proud of him, yet I would be seething!  At first I asked him not to go through my purse and especially do not throw anything away.  The next time, it was as if it had never happened before.  I finally got really upset at about the 3rd or 4th time and screamed at him.  There are other almost identical situations to this one, but it seems to be the best example.  I still wonder ‘what is wrong with him, hello!!!’ He will get so mad at me about my ‘messy’ purse or desk, but for about the past 2 years, it has been worse.  He will put any kind of paper, newspaper, coupon, thing from the mail on my desk, on top of my ‘important papers’ and then get mad at the mess and throw everything out!  The same with my purse, he will stick trash in it, candy wrappers, a McD’s hamburger wrapper, then a few hours later, like he forgot HE did it, yell at me about my ‘trash can’.  As of yet, I have not been able to figure out if he is OCD,  disrespectful, flat out insane, or a combination of all three.  He’s not very organized (aren’t OCD people super organized?), he has his good days and he is very respectful to my face (just not to my stuff).  I don’t want it to seem like I want to leave or these little things, even though they are huge to me, but they are just the best examples of how frustrating he is. We are the absolute worst paring, he is wound so tight, always early, house always looks spotless, though not organized at all (disarray shoved into drawars); while I am pretty laid back, things will get done as they appear on my prioritized to do list (I have to have lists, otherwise won’t remember anything) usually running on time, but not in a rush.  I like to know where everything is and I put things back in the same place everytime so I can find it again (my memory is really terrible so I need to do this).  He just puts things wherever he wants.  I have just recently learned to check the top shelf in our closet for my shoes.  I usually keep them out of the way, but next to the door in the laundry room so I don’t forget them on my way out wishing I were kidding.   For years I have felt almost unfunctionable b/c nothing of mine is sacred, I will never know where anything is, no matter where I put it, b/c no place is sacred.  I know he doesn’t do this to bother me, it just doesn’t occur to him that he is sabotaging me (even though I tell him this, it’s only retained until he can’t take it anymore and feels compelled to clean my desk out).  He has been to many therapists, one told him to not come back until he was commited to the therapy (in hbnd’s defense, this guy was a jerk on prev. occasions as well, but did it occur to hbnd to find another therapist? no), after that, he didn’t look for another therapist, so I started hinting that we go together.  We did, but that didn’t work b/c once at home, he went back to autopilot.  There were a few other therapists since then, always a good reason for not seeing them anymore (no longer covered by ins, moved to different area), but it wasn’t like he thought to find another one, it was always me that had to call and make the appointment.  His temper is terrible and getting worse, god forbid he trip and stub his toe, he will let loose a slew of the most awful words you have ever heard at the top of his lungs. It used to be thoroughly embarrassing, not as much anymore b/c I’ve learned people look at HIM like he’s crazy, not me.  Today was the last straw and I want to have made a decision by Friday.  He smashed the windshield on our 1 vehicle with his fist b/c ‘the wipers that A**hole at walmart sold me are pieces of sh**!’  He hasn’t hit me or our daughter, but I don’t want either of us being exposed to his rage fits.  I love the person that he is when he’s not insane, but I can’t deal with another day involving his fits, especially since I am having a hard enough time keeping up with my own business.  Yes, I have had people tell me ‘you’ve got to leave him’ but it’s not too easy to move out of the house my mother financed in her name as he has threatened to stop paying the mortgage if I do.  I went back to school to get my degree as I figured I better find something productive to do with my time since I was laid off last September and have not found even 1 job (haven’t even been called to an interview!).  I feel as though school (I can’t be too far from the truth) is my salvation as w/o my degree and a good job after, I won’t be able to have the financial ability to leave.  I have exactly 1 year before I graduate if I can stick with it.  On one of his reasonably sane days, I sat him down and talked to him about how I felt and that it’s hard to stay in love with the sane person he is and at the same time hate the insane one.  I told him that I am unhappy to the point that I feel some kind of action is needed, but I feel we should hold off on getting a divorce until I finish school so that we can be able to equally support our daughter (we barely survive on his paycheck), we can sell our house so it doesn’t affect my mother in any negative way since she didn’t have to help us originally and was reluctant, but still did, so that we can both try and work things out as friends and most importantly so that the transition can be made as smooth as possible on our daughter as she will be upset enough w/o add’l worries.  Of course I realize I benefit the most from this, but I explained I would agree to pay him back for what he supported me while I was in school or help out in some other comparable way.  I agreed not to see anyone else until the divorce is final, not that I am now or have ever during our relationship.  He completely accepted all of this, but his biggest concern?  He is seriously pissed that in the mean time, we can’t play husband and wife.  His thinking of me as his wife is where I think a part of the problem comes in.  I’m not his *wife*, I am *his* wife, therefore anything of mine is his also.  Also, being his wife means I have to take responsibility for his anger and the consequences of it (you pissed me off therefore made me punch the hole in the wall). I’ve tried to explain to him in his own reasoning (real people reasoning holds nothing for him) that if he was no longer emotionally attached to me, then he wouldn’t get so mad and punch the wall, unless he gets mad and punches walls regardless of me.  I don’t know what else to tell him, I think he is agreeing to the rest and using this one thing as the ‘deal breaker’ excuse.  If I had someplace to go, in a vehicle that I could use to find some kind of work in order to support myself and daughter, and still have some hope of returning to school in the near future (even though I cringe at the idea of quitting while I am so close to finishing), I would be out of here like a flash.  My hope was that we could create a peaceful home (hah, fantasyland I guess) where we can take our own corners and ride the next year to a better financial position for both of us.  I also want to try and be honest about this and not make it a nasty fight about everything, but I am not against lying my ass off and pretending for the next year.  I will hate every second of it, but I will be able to have some kind of hope in mine and my daughter’s future.  I don’t want to have to screw him, but I will is what I am saying.  I feel like he’s forcing my hand and he’s not going to like it when it comes to fruition. At what point do I shut my mouth, smile and nod and begin plans for myself and my daughter?  I don’t want to have to do this, I am not too good at living a lie or being

… read more »

Response:

Question:

It appears accountants spend more time on software particulars then they do on GAAP. At least in this newsgroup.  Does the craftsman control the tool or the tool control the craftsman?  It looks like accountants are getting tied-up to often and have become too reliant on the SAPs – Do accountants need to begin to set the software standards or just react to the popular SAPs?

Response:

It appears accountants spend more time on software particulars then they do on GAAP. At least in this newsgroup.  Does the craftsman control the tool or the tool control the craftsman?  It looks like accountants are getting tied-up to often and have become too reliant on the SAPs – Do accountants need to begin to set the software standards or just react to the popular SAPs?

The best apps are driven by what accountants need and request.  If the tool doesn’t do what you need it to do then you either need a different tool or you need to communicate your specific needs to the tool maker. Keep in mind that the right tool can make the craftsman both more efficient and effective but the wrong tool can be worse than no tools. The key is in determining what the right tool is.  ;) — Brandon Sommerville Sommerville Consulting Taking care of your Caseview needs caseview at consultant dot com toll free voice message/fax: 1-877-271-9800  ext 9789053

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It appears accountants spend more time on software particulars then they do on GAAP. At least in this newsgroup.  Does the craftsman control the tool or the tool control the craftsman?  It looks like accountants are getting tied-up to often and have become too reliant on the SAPs – Do accountants need to begin to set the software standards or just react to the popular SAPs? The best apps are driven by what accountants need and request.  If the tool doesn’t do what you need it to do then you either need a different tool or you need to communicate your specific needs to the tool maker. Keep in mind that the right tool can make the craftsman both more efficient and effective but the wrong tool can be worse than no tools. The key is in determining what the right tool is.  ;) — Brandon Sommerville Sommerville Consulting Taking care of your Caseview needs caseview at consultant dot com toll free voice message/fax: 1-877-271-9800  ext 9789053

Yes I agree. But at times the user must be the tool maker, or at least have control over the tool including the proprietary rights of the tool.  An industry standard that would be useful across platforms, and applications would be most beneficial to accountants, but not necessarily in the best interest of the SAPs.

Response:

In the case of accounting & software, the tool eliminates the need for the craftsman. As to accountants setting software standards, Give Me A Break.  Maybe we ought to let a ditch digger command the next shuttle mission. David

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It appears accountants spend more time on software particulars then they do on GAAP. At least in this newsgroup.  Does the craftsman control the tool or the tool control the craftsman?  It looks like accountants are getting tied-up to often and have become too reliant on the SAPs – Do accountants need to begin to set the software standards or just react to the popular SAPs?

Response:

A good software engineer will find the accounting concepts trivial to implement.  At most, 12 college hours, for most applications 6.  Principles, Auditing, maybe Cost and maybe Managerial.  That’s it. OTOH, most accountants are not even close to comprehending the concepts involved in a significant software development project. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes I agree. But at times the user must be the tool maker, or at least have control over the tool including the proprietary rights of the tool.  An industry standard that would be useful across platforms, and applications would be most beneficial to accountants, but not necessarily in the best interest of the SAPs.

Response:

Yes I agree. But at times the user must be the tool maker, or at least have control over the tool including the proprietary rights of the tool.  An industry standard that would be useful across platforms, and applications would be most beneficial to accountants, but not necessarily in the best interest of the SAPs.

To let you know where I’m coming from, I’m a financial statement template designer.  The biggest argument that I get is "I want to be able to do it in house" or "we want to be completely self reliant". That’s fine, you have several approaches.  You can either choose to develop an effective tool or an ineffective tool.  By an ineffective tool, I’m talking about a rough framework where people have to go in and do actual formulas to make it work properly.  By an effective tool I mean one that you import the data into it and the presentation is there, saving everyone hours of work. Most people choose the ineffective tool because it gives them the illusion of control.  For the people that choose to develop an effective tool, it usually means hiring someone to do it.  Say you pay them $15/hr for six months and end up with a solid piece of work (that’s how long it took me to do my first one).  Now one of your preparers is friends with a preparer at another firm who is looking for a guy to develop their template.  So the other firm calls him and offers him $17/hr.  Now you have an adequate (don’t kid yourself here) template with no one who really knows what’s going on. The final and most effective option is to buy a solid working template that has a solid user base.  Why?  Well, what’s going to develop faster?  A template used by 15 people or one used by several hundred people?  Which one will have the bugs found more quickly?  Which one will have more features?  Keep in mind now that the developer of the large scale template can work with the package full time, meaning that if a problem occurs he can nail it right away instead of taking time away from what he’s doing at that moment. Did you design your computer?  Or just spec it out?  Did you help develop your word processor or spreadsheet?  A good chunk of accountants are computer literate enough to be able to turn the machine on.  Using a good tool means they become much more efficient at what they do.  Does a carpenter know how to make nails?  Or forge a hammer? My last and final point is that if you can develop something remotely close to what I have for sale for the cost, then you should be doing what I’m doing.  In the last year I’ve sunk over 500 hours of pure development time into it.  That also doesn’t take into account two years of template development and the lessons learned therein. But if you think you can do something remotely comparable in your spare time, take your best shot. — Brandon Sommerville Sommerville Consulting Taking care of your Caseview needs caseview at consultant dot com toll free voice message/fax: 1-877-271-9800  ext 9789053

Response:

Dave, The I.T. Skills Forum in the UK conducted a survey, which concluded that 70 percent of users thought they got an inadequate return on IT investment.  A US survey of information systems auditors concluded that 30 to 40 percent of completed projects exceeded their budget and overran their timelines by between two to three times.

This is a result of our system of patents and copyrights, that gives 3rd parties a big incentive to create traps and tricks, to insert themselves in every process of modern life to extract rents. If they couldn’t get a 17-year lockin from this game of building software, then, we would get better, simpler more straightforward software. In other words, 95% of the complexity in the software originates from the need to build a business model for the vendor– NOT the needs of the application or its user.  For example anything that cannot be patented or copyrighted, doesn’t get built.  Just as drug companies bury herbal remedies that cannot be patented, even if they are superior. Just as commercial television is totally debauched by the stupid funding model of commercial advertising. What we need is more educated users.  Children should be taught in grade school, all of the tricks and traps used by the softawre companies (and all consultants, really) to suck money out of you, and build a permanent entrenched position while not meeting the needs. This indictment applies to lawyers, auto mechanics, accountants as well as software companies and programmers,  its the human condition!  So enjoy, In good humor, Todd

Response:

The following newsgroup is self-explanatory: alt.comp.software.financial

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Then let us or me see what you have created. If it is of general use to accountants then something big could be done with it. Do you have Caseware?  If so, I’ll e-mail you a demo of it. Caseview or Caseware are not in my library of programs. — Brandon Sommerville Sommerville Consulting Taking care of your Caseview needs caseview at consultant dot com toll free voice message/fax: 1-877-271-9800  ext 9789053

Response:

Then let us or me see what you have created. If it is of general use to accountants then something big could be done with it. Do you have Caseware?  If so, I’ll e-mail you a demo of it. Caseview or Caseware are not in my library of programs.

Caseware is one of the better write up programs.  It can import from the vast majority of accounting packages out there and with a properly set up Caseview (part of the package) template produced finished financial statements with very little fuss. http://www.caseware.com/home.asp — Brandon Sommerville Sommerville Consulting Taking care of your Caseview needs caseview at consultant dot com toll free voice message/fax: 1-877-271-9800  ext 9789053

Response:

The following newsgroup is self-explanatory: alt.comp.software.financial

It is difficult these days to be both effective and profitable as an accountant without the use of good software. — Brandon Sommerville Sommerville Consulting Taking care of your Caseview needs caseview at consultant dot com toll free voice message/fax: 1-877-271-9800  ext 9789053

Response:

In the case of accounting & software, the tool eliminates the need for the craftsman. As to accountants setting software standards, Give Me A Break.  Maybe we ought to let a ditch digger command the next shuttle mission.

A pungent comment.  Perhaps the accounting profession/industry  would be well served if some of its members pursued software development.  Then again maybe those that have are not in this newsgroup. What became of the xml group meeting in D.C. made up of SAPs, consultants, and accountants? Were they not setting standards? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -David It appears accountants spend more time on software particulars then they do on GAAP. At least in this newsgroup.  Does the craftsman control the tool or the tool control the craftsman?  It looks like accountants are getting tied-up to often and have become too reliant on the SAPs – Do accountants need to begin to set the software standards or just react to the popular SAPs?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes I agree. But at times the user must be the tool maker, or at least have control over the tool including the proprietary rights of the tool.  An industry standard that would be useful across platforms, and applications would be most beneficial to accountants, but not necessarily in the best interest of the SAPs. To let you know where I’m coming from, I’m a financial statement template designer.  The biggest argument that I get is "I want to be able to do it in house" or "we want to be completely self reliant". That’s fine, you have several approaches.  You can either choose to develop an effective tool or an ineffective tool.  By an ineffective tool, I’m talking about a rough framework where people have to go in and do actual formulas to make it work properly.  By an effective tool I mean one that you import the data into it and the presentation is there, saving everyone hours of work. Most people choose the ineffective tool because it gives them the illusion of control.  For the people that choose to develop an effective tool, it usually means hiring someone to do it.  Say you pay them $15/hr for six months and end up with a solid piece of work (that’s how long it took me to do my first one).  Now one of your preparers is friends with a preparer at another firm who is looking for a guy to develop their template.  So the other firm calls him and offers him $17/hr.  Now you have an adequate (don’t kid yourself here) template with no one who really knows what’s going on. The final and most effective option is to buy a solid working template that has a solid user base.  Why?  Well, what’s going to develop faster?  A template used by 15 people or one used by several hundred people?  Which one will have the bugs found more quickly?  Which one will have more features?  Keep in mind now that the developer of the large scale template can work with the package full time, meaning that if a problem occurs he can nail it right away instead of taking time away from what he’s doing at that moment. Did you design your computer?  Or just spec it out?  Did you help develop your word processor or spreadsheet?  A good chunk of accountants are computer literate enough to be able to turn the machine on.  Using a good tool means they become much more efficient at what they do.  Does a carpenter know how to make nails?  Or forge a hammer? My last and final point is that if you can develop something remotely close to what I have for sale for the cost, then you should be doing what I’m doing.  In the last year I’ve sunk over 500 hours of pure development time into it.  That also doesn’t take into account two years of template development and the lessons learned therein.

Then let us or me see what you have created. If it is of general use to accountants then something big could be done with it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -But if you think you can do something remotely comparable in your spare time, take your best shot. — Brandon Sommerville Sommerville Consulting Taking care of your Caseview needs caseview at consultant dot com toll free voice message/fax: 1-877-271-9800  ext 9789053

Response:

Then let us or me see what you have created. If it is of general use to accountants then something big could be done with it.

Do you have Caseware?  If so, I’ll e-mail you a demo of it. — Brandon Sommerville Sommerville Consulting Taking care of your Caseview needs caseview at consultant dot com toll free voice message/fax: 1-877-271-9800  ext 9789053

Response:

Then let us or me see what you have created. If it is of general use to accountants then something big could be done with it. Do you have Caseware?  If so, I’ll e-mail you a demo of it.

Caseview or Caseware are not in my library of programs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Brandon Sommerville Sommerville Consulting Taking care of your Caseview needs caseview at consultant dot com toll free voice message/fax: 1-877-271-9800  ext 9789053

Response:

Sure Dave, Considering 80% of IS/IT projects wind up as half-assed wastes of money that need immediate "upgrade" or "maintenance", I don’t think most software engineers have a good grip about systems analysis/design/implementation, they sure can’t control costs! The software guys need the bean counters to guide them by the hand about costs, budgeting, PM etc. At least you can rely on me to do your accounts properly (even if SAP/PeopleSoft is "integrating" it’s own colon). If you think you can become an accountant in 6 hours & fully understand the regulations, exceptions & permutations etc you are tripping. BTW look at CIMA’s paper on systems & project management – it’s pretty good, & I should know.

To design the systems you don’t need to understand all the regs.  You simply put choices in so the accountant can turn them on or off as he needs them.  If the accountant is able to communicate his needs, the programmer can produce the required results. Every financial statement is unique from two or three feet away.  Put them 10 or 15 feet away and most of them (non-public companies anyway) have very similar structures to them. I’ve created a financial statement template that is simple enough to use that you could start using it today and be fully comfortable with it in an hour yet complicated enough to be able to handle the vast majority of financial statements that a firm deals with.  As long as the accountant isn’t paying for the development time and bug fixes by the hour, who cares as long as problems are solved in a timely fashion? — Brandon Sommerville Sommerville Consulting Taking care of your Caseview needs caseview at consultant dot com toll free voice message/fax: 1-877-271-9800  ext 9789053

Response:

I’m not saying you can become an accountant in 6 hours — it took me 150 or so.  But you need not have more than 6-12 hours to fully understand everything you need to know to develop accounting software.  Much more important is systems expertise — you certainly can’t get the systems expertise in 6-12 hours…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sure Dave, Considering 80% of IS/IT projects wind up as half-assed wastes of money that need immediate "upgrade" or "maintenance", I don’t think most software engineers have a good grip about systems analysis/design/implementation, they sure can’t control costs! The software guys need the bean counters to guide them by the hand about costs, budgeting, PM etc. At least you can rely on me to do your accounts properly (even if SAP/PeopleSoft is "integrating" it’s own colon). If you think you can become an accountant in 6 hours & fully understand the regulations, exceptions & permutations etc you are tripping. BTW look at CIMA’s paper on systems & project management – it’s pretty good, & I should know. Joe A good software engineer will find the accounting concepts trivial to implement.  At most, 12 college hours, for most applications 6. Principles, Auditing, maybe Cost and maybe Managerial.  That’s it. OTOH, most accountants are not even close to comprehending the concepts involved in a significant software development project. Yes I agree. But at times the user must be the tool maker, or at least have control over the tool including the proprietary rights of the tool. An industry standard that would be useful across platforms, and applications would be most beneficial to accountants, but not necessarily in the best interest of the SAPs.

Response:

Sure Dave, Considering 80% of IS/IT projects wind up as half-assed wastes of money that need immediate "upgrade" or "maintenance", I don’t think most software engineers have a good grip about systems analysis/design/implementation, they sure can’t control costs! The software guys need the bean counters to guide them by the hand about costs, budgeting, PM etc. At least you can rely on me to do your accounts properly (even if SAP/PeopleSoft is "integrating" it’s own colon). If you think you can become an accountant in 6 hours & fully understand the regulations, exceptions & permutations etc you are tripping. BTW look at CIMA’s paper on systems & project management – it’s pretty good, & I should know. Joe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A good software engineer will find the accounting concepts trivial to implement.  At most, 12 college hours, for most applications 6. Principles, Auditing, maybe Cost and maybe Managerial.  That’s it. OTOH, most accountants are not even close to comprehending the concepts involved in a significant software development project. Yes I agree. But at times the user must be the tool maker, or at least have control over the tool including the proprietary rights of the tool.  An industry standard that would be useful across platforms, and applications would be most beneficial to accountants, but not necessarily in the best interest of the SAPs.

Response:

Dave, The I.T. Skills Forum in the UK conducted a survey, which concluded that 70 percent of users thought they got an inadequate return on IT investment.  A US survey of information systems auditors concluded that 30 to 40 percent of completed projects exceeded their budget and overran their timelines by between two to three times. == Go get a spreadsheet – that’ll work! Oh I forgot, Excel has so many bugs, it can’t add up. Oh shit that’s the IT boys for ya! "Be an MSCE in 4 weeks!" – that says it all… Joe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the case of accounting & software, the tool eliminates the need for the craftsman. As to accountants setting software standards, Give Me A Break.  Maybe we ought to let a ditch digger command the next shuttle mission. David It appears accountants spend more time on software particulars then they do on GAAP. At least in this newsgroup.  Does the craftsman control the tool or the tool control the craftsman?  It looks like accountants are getting tied-up to often and have become too reliant on the SAPs – Do accountants need to begin to set the software standards or just react to the popular SAPs?

Response:

Question:

I am personally involved in developing business models for software companies to transform their offerings into ASP solutions.  In my opinion, there are lots of application areas that make sense to be hosted, and equally, lots that just do not.  In my experience, highly interactive Transaction-based or Operational applications that must dialogue frequently with a database, service a large population of users and for which response time is a critical measure of success are not the best candidates for hosting.  In addition to significant infrastructure and security issues, often these applications are being handled well by the enterprise and would only result in a like for like transition.  As these applications require updating and or the business needs change, it may make sense to look in this direction. On the other hand, analytical and management oriented application that rely on aggregations of information to serve as the foundation for better understanding and measuring the key performance metrics of an enterprise are very well suited for hosting.  In this sense they make better candidates for an ASP approach than they do for bringing the solution in-house.  This arena of knowledge management, including document management, records management, imaging and data warehousing often requires substantial investment in time, resource and infrastructure and the promised ROI is almost always a rapidly moving target.  When the significant burden that the infrastructure places on any of these types of apps is outsourced, the feasability of paying a subscription fee becomes more and more appealing.  In a recent article on the subject, discussing outsourcing of fixed asset maintenance management as a web-hosted application, the point was made that most companies, large or small, want the benefit of the $500,000 software but want to only pay about $500 to get it.  ASP’s who target the knowledge management and analytical arenas are today capable of delivering on that promise. I would invite anyone who is interested in further discussing this to feel NOSPAMMING) Regards, wjr – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Out in Cyberspace, new ASP’s are popping up that offer accounting applications. I think the value is clear: remote access, 24/7 availability, and no tech investment, and online auditing. So the question is, Is this the new direction of accounting? Or, is it too early to throw out my quickbooks? Before you buy.

Response:

In Cyberspace, accounting ASP’s seem to be popping up with some frequency. They offer many nice benefits: online auditing, 24/7 availability, remote access, and no tech investment. So, Can I throw away my quickbooks? Or, Is it still too early? Before you buy.

Response:

I would have to disagree with Ed.  I am beta testing one that I think runs pretty fast.  Granted I am on a cable modem.  The reports are Java based with drilldown capabilities.  Even these come up pretty fast thus far.  But we do not have a lot of transactions in there as of yet. The real downside to all this is that if you want to change accounting applications, it would be very difficult to transfer your data. — Dean L. Covey www.coveyaccounting.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So the question is, Is this the new direction of accounting? Or, is it too early to throw out my quickbooks? I think it’s still too early to tell.  The problem with most ASP applications I’ve worked with to date is that you can *tell* you are working from a remote machine, even on a high speed Internet connection, due to the delays.  So, for now, I don’t think you are going to find ASPs wiping out established locally hosted applications. Whether we eventually get to that point is probably going to depend on developments in the future.

Response:

Out in Cyberspace, new ASP’s are popping up that offer accounting applications. I think the value is clear: remote access, 24/7 availability, and no tech investment, and online auditing. So the question is, Is this the new direction of accounting? Or, is it too early to throw out my quickbooks? Before you buy.

Response:

Out in Cyberspace, new ASP’s are popping up that offer accounting applications. I think the value is clear: remote access, 24/7 availability, no tech investment, and online auditing. So the question is, Is this the new direction of accounting? Or, is it too early to throw out my quickbooks? Before you buy.

Response:

So the question is, Is this the new direction of accounting? Or, is it too early to throw out my quickbooks?

I think it’s still too early to tell.  The problem with most ASP applications I’ve worked with to date is that you can *tell* you are working from a remote machine, even on a high speed Internet connection, due to the delays.  So, for now, I don’t think you are going to find ASPs wiping out established locally hosted applications. Whether we eventually get to that point is probably going to depend on developments in the future.

Response:

Question:

I was just thinking that a big shovel would be in order – with this much s___, there has GOT to be a pony here somewhere! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey! Someone get a bigger net! For someone with $5.5 million, you would think they could learn to spellcheck a document before calling others an idiot. BTW …. WHAT THE  #$%**#  ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!! Curley your such a numbskull …… whoop …..whoop …. whoop! Since we are talking money can I have $2 million to open a magic restaurant?? I hope you get a real good secretary to check your document before you send them out. I am glad the fourth grade was so good to you. — Mark Byrne http://markballoonguy.home.mindspring.com            "Bad to the Balloon" Well, let’s bring you little fools up to date. I just arranged for an influx of $3 million in venture capital for Webdesign.Ca Inc. for [exspansion] of [your[MINE?] e-commerce division and with my recent [aqusition] of a PC Computing [Consutation] [Firm[s] in Europe and Japan for another $2.5 million, I am [affreaid] you won’t get rid of me any time soon.  [Phoney] stories of death and [acustaions] about my [occomidations] and the [assult] on the [reputaion] of the owner of the AES won’t do it kiddies. As the President and C.E.O. of Webdesign.Ca I’m afraid I don’t have too much time to play with you little children, but I promise when I take some time off I’ll catch up and slap you [bozzos] around as usual. Enjoy. Earl Curley http://www.room101rat.com/webdesignca/ See my 1999 predictions online at http://www.room101rat.com/webdesignca/iris.html **** I  PREDICT YOU WON’T WIN A SPELLING BEE. SORRY I SENT THIS ONCE WITH THE MISTAKES HIGHLIGHTED IN RED, BUT IT WAS KICKED BACK. "Excuse me child, but I’m afraid they haven’t been teaching you grade four kids much in school, have they?  What a stupid child." Earl Curley — Matt Kriebel      *             The Hessian Page        See this .sig! Loathe this .sig! Hate this .sig!

Response:

I see we are reduced to metaphors. Those can’t do, teach. Those who can’t teach, Sell. It sounds like Curley is buying his own crap. The net reference was meant for the insane rambling, not fishing!!! Matt, please correct me if I’m wrong. Matt it isn’t good form to post in-between messages it looks like the first person said it. For the record I didn’t say get a bigger net. Even though I though it was funny. The inserts I made were to highlight the absurdity of Curley’s post. I hope I made that clear by bracing the misspelled words and all caps on comments. My original post had color highlights, but it didn’t down load the  newsgroup. How come Benito and William page can send photos and can’t post in color???? Any way, I am not the one bragging about my $ 5.5 million dollar empire, just pointing out the irony. If I had that kind of money I highly doubt I would bother with trivial dribble and bravado. I would also hope my education would be better. Even Bill Gates, who is a bad speller, uses spell check. — Mark Byrne http://markballoonguy.home.mindspring.com            "Bad to the Balloon"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are fish and there are fishermen.  Fishing is not his forte. Enjoy Earl Curley http://www.room101rat.com/webdesignca/ See my 1999 predictions online at http://www.room101rat.com/webdesignca/iris.html The International Remote Intelligence Scanning Chronicles Hey! Someone get a bigger net! For someone with $5.5 million, you would think they could learn to spellcheck a document before calling others an idiot. BTW …. WHAT THE  #$%**#  ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!! Curley your such a numbskull …… whoop …..whoop …. whoop! Since we are talking money can I have $2 million to open a magic restaurant?? I hope you get a real good secretary to check your document before you send them out. I am glad the fourth grade was so good to you. — Mark Byrne http://markballoonguy.home.mindspring.com            "Bad to the Balloon" Well, let’s bring you little fools up to date. I just arranged for an influx of $3 million in venture capital for Webdesign.Ca Inc. for [exspansion] of [your[MINE?] e-commerce division and with my recent [aqusition] of a PC Computing [Consutation] [Firm[s] in Europe and Japan for another $2.5 million, I am [affreaid] you won’t get rid of me any time soon.  [Phoney] stories of death and [acustaions] about my [occomidations] and the [assult] on the [reputaion] of the owner of the AES won’t do it kiddies. As the President and C.E.O. of Webdesign.Ca I’m afraid I don’t have too much time to play with you little children, but I promise when I take some time off I’ll catch up and slap you [bozzos] around as usual. Enjoy. Earl Curley http://www.room101rat.com/webdesignca/ See my 1999 predictions online at http://www.room101rat.com/webdesignca/iris.html **** I  PREDICT YOU WON’T WIN A SPELLING BEE. SORRY I SENT THIS ONCE WITH THE MISTAKES HIGHLIGHTED IN RED, BUT IT WAS KICKED BACK. "Excuse me child, but I’m afraid they haven’t been teaching you grade four kids much in school, have they?  What a stupid child." Earl Curley — Matt Kriebel      *             The Hessian Page         See this .sig! Loathe this .sig! Hate this .sig! "Excuse me child, but I’m afraid they haven’t been teaching you grade four kids much in school, have they?  What a stupid child." Earl Curley

Response:

There are fish and there are fishermen.  Fishing is not his forte. Enjoy Earl Curley http://www.room101rat.com/webdesignca/ See my 1999 predictions online at http://www.room101rat.com/webdesignca/iris.html The International Remote Intelligence Scanning Chronicles – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey! Someone get a bigger net! For someone with $5.5 million, you would think they could learn to spellcheck a document before calling others an idiot. BTW …. WHAT THE  #$%**#  ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!! Curley your such a numbskull …… whoop …..whoop …. whoop! Since we are talking money can I have $2 million to open a magic restaurant?? I hope you get a real good secretary to check your document before you send them out. I am glad the fourth grade was so good to you. — Mark Byrne http://markballoonguy.home.mindspring.com            "Bad to the Balloon" Well, let’s bring you little fools up to date. I just arranged for an influx of $3 million in venture capital for Webdesign.Ca Inc. for [exspansion] of [your[MINE?] e-commerce division and with my recent [aqusition] of a PC Computing [Consutation] [Firm[s] in Europe and Japan for another $2.5 million, I am [affreaid] you won’t get rid of me any time soon.  [Phoney] stories of death and [acustaions] about my [occomidations] and the [assult] on the [reputaion] of the owner of the AES won’t do it kiddies. As the President and C.E.O. of Webdesign.Ca I’m afraid I don’t have too much time to play with you little children, but I promise when I take some time off I’ll catch up and slap you [bozzos] around as usual. Enjoy. Earl Curley http://www.room101rat.com/webdesignca/ See my 1999 predictions online at http://www.room101rat.com/webdesignca/iris.html **** I  PREDICT YOU WON’T WIN A SPELLING BEE. SORRY I SENT THIS ONCE WITH THE MISTAKES HIGHLIGHTED IN RED, BUT IT WAS KICKED BACK. "Excuse me child, but I’m afraid they haven’t been teaching you grade four kids much in school, have they?  What a stupid child." Earl Curley — Matt Kriebel      *             The Hessian Page         See this .sig! Loathe this .sig! Hate this .sig!

"Excuse me child, but I’m afraid they haven’t been teaching you grade four kids much in school, have they?  What a stupid child." Earl Curley

Response:

Hey! Someone get a bigger net! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For someone with $5.5 million, you would think they could learn to spellcheck a document before calling others an idiot. BTW …. WHAT THE  #$%**#  ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!! Curley your such a numbskull …… whoop …..whoop …. whoop! Since we are talking money can I have $2 million to open a magic restaurant?? I hope you get a real good secretary to check your document before you send them out. I am glad the fourth grade was so good to you. — Mark Byrne http://markballoonguy.home.mindspring.com            "Bad to the Balloon" Well, let’s bring you little fools up to date. I just arranged for an influx of $3 million in venture capital for Webdesign.Ca Inc. for [exspansion] of [your[MINE?] e-commerce division and with my recent [aqusition] of a PC Computing [Consutation] [Firm[s] in Europe and Japan for another $2.5 million, I am [affreaid] you won’t get rid of me any time soon.  [Phoney] stories of death and [acustaions] about my [occomidations] and the [assult] on the [reputaion] of the owner of the AES won’t do it kiddies. As the President and C.E.O. of Webdesign.Ca I’m afraid I don’t have too much time to play with you little children, but I promise when I take some time off I’ll catch up and slap you [bozzos] around as usual. Enjoy. Earl Curley http://www.room101rat.com/webdesignca/ See my 1999 predictions online at http://www.room101rat.com/webdesignca/iris.html **** I  PREDICT YOU WON’T WIN A SPELLING BEE. SORRY I SENT THIS ONCE WITH THE MISTAKES HIGHLIGHTED IN RED, BUT IT WAS KICKED BACK. "Excuse me child, but I’m afraid they haven’t been teaching you grade four kids much in school, have they?  What a stupid child." Earl Curley

– Matt Kriebel      *             The Hessian Page         See this .sig! Loathe this .sig! Hate this .sig!

Response:

alt.magic deleted by popular request. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      So I need your help to maintain this fight. Give me a call. If you’re interested in joining with me in this battle, I’d like to talk This is a battle we’re going to win, but only if I get your help to do it. So please contact me today, and offer me what material or spiritual support you can afford. John Benneth 503 661 4842 And if you raised enough money to hire a major accounting firm to hold the double-blind code for a preliminary trial demonstration of your yeast-, pH-, or other test, would you do the test for the JREF, as your formerly close associate, the homeopath Alain Jean-Mairet, Randi, and I (who you have so often publicly described as fair and impartial) painstakingly negotiated for you last August (complete with the promise of a signed in advance – by Randi – copy of your application form)?  Or are there other reasons why you feel such a test still wouldn’t be fair? (Please specify.) Don’t you think it’s a little odd that the only way the only known applicant to the Challenge can get a fair trial of it is to hire a public accounting firm to act as arbitrators? Reportedly Randi has always acted as his own

I agree it’s problematic, unless the applicant can come up with a third party to hold the double-blind code who is trusted both by the applicant and Randi – and works cheap or free. But if I was certain of my ability to win the challenge – which you yourself report is now worth over $2 million (with the Chinese illusionist’s added value contribution) – I wouldn’t let the cost of hiring a major accounting firm stop me. If I didn’t have the money, I’d borrow it or perhaps sell shares in the booty (for winning the prize or suing Randi for breach of contract) to other people in return for a much smaller investment in the expenses of taking the challenge. judge, jury and executioner to all these mysterious previous trials. And

Pretend you really are the first claimant.  What counts *now* are the publicly posted and legally binding (especially once Randi signs, as he promised he would) rules of the challenge and Randi’s stated and/or demonstrated willingness to allow it and the negotiation process to be publicly witnessed.  If he fails to live up to those rules, he’s liable to legitimate public ridicule and litigation. this is only after Mike Epstein . . . the NIST sicentist . .  at Mt. St. Mary’s College in Emmitsburg doesn’t simply dismiss it in a secret "preliminary" trial.    The Challenge is a widely known public offer. To

Randi offered – at your insistent request – to allow you simply to demonstrate the yeast test, double-blind, before or with a scientifically qualified third party as a sufficient preliminary trial.  What has Mike Epstein done to demonstrate that he wouldn’t give you a fair opportunity to do this? Are you concerned that he will use sleight of hand on you or some other trickery? have credibility it needs public arbitration. But what are we arguing over?

Supervision by a third party with no actual or perceived bias against people bearing paranormal claims would be highly desirable.  But the challenge, as is, is set up in such a way that someone with a genuine "paranormal" (by Randi’s definition) ability should either be able to win or to expose the challenge as a sham – if he plays his cards right, as we have been trying to do in your case. Randi’s not going to stqge a test. Just like Art Bell told me on the phone and will tell anyone else who asks him, Randi will always argue over the conditions of this test until the applicant gives up. And then just like

Randi and your trusted negotiator Alain were in accord about how the preliminary should be done when YOU went AWOL last August. Bell said, that’s exactly what he’s done. Now if he’s interested in the science, if Randi wants the truth he’ll siimply investigate the same things I did.

Randi is entitled to his beliefs, disbeliefs, prejudices – call them what you will.  It’s enough that, through the JREF, he’s willing to put over $1 million on the line for people like you to prove him wrong.  If you want him to "investigate," he may wind up winning the prize himself!  You should be glad he considers homeopathy paranormal.  His entrenched position is your golden opportunity.      Seriously, Syd, after all the acrimony over this thing, having read      Randi’s implied and explict threats, after reading his statement about always having an out, http://www.psicounsel.com/starbaby.html do you really think he’s ever going to risk the kernal of his apostasy on a fair test?

Why don’t you call his bluff, if that’s what you think it is?  You have witnesses. Remember, you can satisfy Randi’s claimed fear of legal liability should you go postal or something by having Gary Schwartz testify in writing to your mental stability (if that’s his judgement, as you’ve implied) When we first began corresponding, I had the impression that as the editor of the Winnipeg Aquarian, you were a journalist, and that as an editor, you would have some pretty tough standards for the truth. What has ever stopped you or anyone else from simply picking up the phone and doing a little investigating for yourself? Why not call Gary at the Human Energy Systems Lab yourself and ask him yourself?

I don’t butt into people’s lives unless I have good reason to.  Were Dr. Schwartz to tell me he considers you mentally competent, it would make no difference to Randi.  He would require a formal communication to that effect from Schwartz himself, or simply a notarized waiver from you. or simply by signing a notarized waiver yourself, as offered by Randi a few months ago. You know as well as I do that making a condition like that months after making his original offer is absurd. If I’m as mentally ill as he would

So humour him.  Call his bluff.  Then do the preliminary.  It’s a small price to pay for fame, fortune, and vindication. l;ike everyone to believe, then why has he sent me dozens of emails? Here we have a famous magician who now spends his sunset years lecturing at colleges and receiving large speaking fees, taunting and threatening somebody who he claims is insane, and then after months of this, he asks the man to sign a form releasing him from liability in case the supposed wretch goes insane and "does" something.     That’s like saying that after I spend months taunting you, calling you     names and acting disingenuously and even threatening you, that I won’t fulfill my promise to you for having delivered that which I asked UNLESS I absolve you of all liability for aggravating a condition that it might be said I imposed on you.

Again, who gives a shit?  Let him be wiley, disingenuous, abusive – whatever. It’s so easy to call his bluff, if that’s what it is.  If he then produces another "out," you have witnesses.  But so far, the most significant out I’ve seen has been your lack of response to the opportunity to do the preliminary he gave you in August. Right now, Randi has much more credibility for me than you; and if I had to do my honest journalist bit on the story so far, that’s what I would have to document.     Secondly, and I got to say that this thing just keeps getting dumber,     how is it that you guys think a crazy man can offer you anything of substance or even legally contract with you?  So if what he says is true, any type of document

I’m not one of "those guys."  I haven’t accused you of being insane and I’m not about to get contractually involved with you. of the type you say it is he’s offering is null and void. SO why do you keep

Well then that would mean that he’s not protected.  His loss, not yours. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – pestering the madman? Shouldn’t you and Randi and others be concerned for a liability you’re incurring in this? If I am really insane, and I go out do something, mightn’t the survivors come back and say, hey, look, these three guys, Randi, Baumel and Jean-Mairet (sounds too French) actively CONSPIRED to drive this man insane. And here’s the entire written record, even repeated statements from the magician, INSISTING that this man Benneth is crazy. Certainly he has a lot to lose if the applicant wins, so mightn’t a very strong motive eneter into the picutre for making the statement falsely, and then by repeated taunts and smears and little threats, actually begin to impose the condition? I mean, is this what you do for kicks? Go down to the local asylum and drag your tin cup across the bars and laugh at the inamates? Maybe you like to torment people who are on the edge. I see that you are the author of several books on depression. Apparently a man’s mental state is a subject of special interest to you. So here you are, a noted author on the subject of mental illness, who appears to be now presenting the argument of a magician claiming that a relatively unknown man is insane, asking him why it is he won’t provide authentication of his sanity? In fact, I believe I’ve read you to imply that you agree with Randi, is that not so?

There’s nothing in the voluminous record of our public and private email to suggest that I’ve been trying to drive you insane or sadistically use you as some kind of subject for study.  That never was my intention, and it’s tempting to say that only someone paranoid would entertain such an idea.  Up until your departure from the bargaining table last August I *was* trying to facilitate a fair trial of your claim – period.  Since then, I’ve mostly been involved as an occasional commentator to set the record straight and/or to challenge you to live up to your rhetoric and speak truthfully.  I’m not afraid of being sued, because I’ve done nothing wrong – and the record clearly shows that.

… read more »

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      It’s been suggested by Louis "Bowels" Minatti in the above newsgroups that I hate Randi. Lou, Lou, this is nonsense! I am compelled to state that nothing could be further from the truth! Why, I love the dear little elf! Sounds like you have a Randi fetish.         Don’t you mean ‘fettish’?         – TR         – welcoming the new Earl Gordon Curley. Hey Johnny: got any predictions for 2000? <guffaw

Doesn’t this sound like the boys associated with the JREF? Like I said once a cult groupie always a cult groupie and the poster above simply provides substantial proof to that fact. It is like the blind leading the blind. One idiot claims victory and all his little cult followers abide to his every wishes. Well, let’s bring you little fools up to date. I just arranged for an influx of $3 million in venture capital for Webdesign.Ca Inc. for exspansion of your e- commerce division and with my recent aqusition of a PC Computing Consutation Firm in Europe and Japan for another $2.5 million, I am affreaid you won’t get rid of me any time soon.  Phoney stories of death and acustaions about my occomidations and the assult on the reputaion of the owner of the AES won’t do it kiddies. As the President and C.E.O. of Webdesign.Ca I’m afraid I don’t have too much time to play with you little children, but I promise when I take some time off I’ll catch up and slap you bozzos around as usual. Enjoy. Earl Curley http://www.room101rat.com/webdesignca/ See my 1999 predictions online at http://www.room101rat.com/webdesignca/iris.html "Excuse me child, but I’m afraid they haven’t been teaching you grade four kids much in school, have they?  What a stupid child." Earl Curley

Response:

For someone with $5.5 million, you would think they could learn to spellcheck a document before calling others an idiot. BTW …. WHAT THE  #$%**#  ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!! Curley your such a numbskull …… whoop …..whoop …. whoop! Since we are talking money can I have $2 million to open a magic restaurant?? I hope you get a real good secretary to check your document before you send them out. I am glad the fourth grade was so good to you. — Mark Byrne http://markballoonguy.home.mindspring.com            "Bad to the Balloon" Well, let’s bring you little fools up to date. I just arranged for an influx of $3 million in venture capital for Webdesign.Ca Inc. for [exspansion] of

[your[MINE?] e-commerce division and with my recent [aqusition] of a PC Computing [Consutation] [Firm[s] in Europe and Japan for another $2.5 million, I am [affreaid] you

won’t get rid of me any time soon.  [Phoney] stories of death and [acustaions] about my [occomidations] and the [assult] on the [reputaion] of the owner of the AES won’t do it kiddies. As the President and C.E.O. of Webdesign.Ca I’m afraid I don’t have too much time to play with you little children, but I promise when I take some time off I’ll catch up and slap you [bozzos] around as usual. Enjoy. Earl Curley http://www.room101rat.com/webdesignca/ See my 1999 predictions online at http://www.room101rat.com/webdesignca/iris.html

**** I  PREDICT YOU WON’T WIN A SPELLING BEE. SORRY I SENT THIS ONCE WITH THE MISTAKES HIGHLIGHTED IN RED, BUT IT WAS KICKED BACK. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Excuse me child, but I’m afraid they haven’t been teaching you grade four kids much in school, have they?  What a stupid child." Earl Curley

Response:

after all the acrimony over this thing, having read Randi’s implied and explict threats, after reading his statement about always having an out, http://www.psicounsel.com/starbaby.html

Not this old bullshit again! "Sure, I beleive that a bitter, rejected and out-of-control guy can be trusted to fairly represent out-of-context quotes of his opponents." Damn, what is it about Kooks and sTARBABY? THe quote was by Randi about his stage-act and not the challenge. Dennis Rawlins was a bitter and angry man who was a favorite target for woo-woo’s due to his over-the-top tactics against astrologers and the like. Then *bam* he gets rejected from CSICOP due to those same tactics and all of a sudden he’s the woo-woo’s best friend who could never, ever lie. Didja ever read sTARBABY? Ever notice that when he’s talking about someone else he give quotes to make them look as bad as possible, but when discussing what he said around said quotes he keeps details about his commentary to a minimum? CRYBABY is more like it. No surprise that Benneth sucked down this kook-bait. — Matt Kriebel      *             The Hessian Page         See this .sig! Loathe this .sig! Hate this .sig!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      So I need your help to maintain this fight. Give me a call. If you’re interested in joining with me in this battle, I’d like to talk This is a battle we’re going to win, but only if I get your help to do it. So please contact me today, and offer me what material or spiritual support you can afford. John Benneth 503 661 4842 And if you raised enough money to hire a major accounting firm to hold the double-blind code for a preliminary trial demonstration of your yeast-, pH-, or other test, would you do the test for the JREF, as your formerly close associate, the homeopath Alain Jean-Mairet, Randi, and I (who you have so often publicly described as fair and impartial) painstakingly negotiated for you last August (complete with the promise of a signed in advance – by Randi – copy of your application form)?  Or are there other reasons why you feel such a test still wouldn’t be fair? (Please specify.)

Don’t you think it’s a little odd that the only way the only known applicant to the Challenge can get a fair trial of it is to hire a public accounting firm to act as arbitrators? Reportedly Randi has always acted as his own judge, jury and executioner to all these mysterious previous trials. And this is only after Mike Epstein . . . the NIST sicentist . .  at Mt. St. Mary’s College in Emmitsburg doesn’t simply dismiss it in a secret "preliminary" trial.    The Challenge is a widely known public offer. To have credibility it needs public arbitration. But what are we arguing over? Randi’s not going to stqge a test. Just like Art Bell told me on the phone and will tell anyone else who asks him, Randi will always argue over the conditions of this test until the applicant gives up. And then just like Bell said, that’s exactly what he’s done. Now if he’s interested in the science, if Randi wants the truth he’ll siimply investigate the same things I did.       Seriously, Syd, after all the acrimony over this thing, having read Randi’s implied and explict threats, after reading his statement about always having an out, http://www.psicounsel.com/starbaby.html do you really think he’s ever going to risk the kernal of his apostasy on a fair test? Remember, you can satisfy Randi’s claimed fear of legal liability should you go postal or something by having Gary Schwartz testify in writing to your mental stability (if that’s his judgement, as you’ve implied)

When we first began corresponding, I had the impression that as the editor of the Winnipeg Aquarian, you were a journalist, and that as an editor, you would have some pretty tough standards for the truth. What has ever stopped you or anyone else from simply picking up the phone and doing a little investigating for yourself? Why not call Gary at the Human Energy Systems Lab yourself and ask him yourself? or simply by signing a notarized waiver yourself, as offered by Randi a few months ago.

You know as well as I do that making a condition like that months after making his original offer is absurd. If I’m as mentally ill as he would l;ike everyone to believe, then why has he sent me dozens of emails?     Here we have a famous magician who now spends his sunset years lecturing at colleges and receiving large speaking fees, taunting and threatening somebody who he claims is insane, and then after months of this, he asks the man to sign a form releasing him from liability in case the supposed wretch goes insane and "does" something.      That’s like saying that after I spend months taunting you, calling you names and acting disingenuously and even threatening you, that I won’t fulfill my promise to you for having delivered that which I asked UNLESS I absolve you of all liability for aggravating a condition that it might be said I imposed on you.      Secondly, and I got to say that this thing just keeps getting dumber, how is it that you guys think a crazy man can offer you anything of substance or even legally contract with you?  So if what he says is true, any type of document of the type you say it is he’s offering is null and void. SO why do you keep pestering the madman? Shouldn’t you and Randi and others be concerned for a liability you’re incurring in this? If I am really insane, and I go out do something, mightn’t the survivors come back and say, hey, look, these three guys, Randi, Baumel and Jean-Mairet (sounds too French) actively CONSPIRED to drive this man insane. And here’s the entire written record, even repeated statements from the magician, INSISTING that this man Benneth is crazy. Certainly he has a lot to lose if the applicant wins, so mightn’t a very strong motive eneter into the picutre for making the statement falsely, and then by repeated taunts and smears and little threats, actually begin to impose the condition? I mean, is this what you do for kicks? Go down to the local asylum and drag your tin cup across the bars and laugh at the inamates? Maybe you like to torment people who are on the edge. I see that you are the author of several books on depression. Apparently a man’s mental state is a subject of special interest to you. So here you are, a noted author on the subject of mental illness, who appears to be now presenting the argument of a magician claiming that a relatively unknown man is insane, asking him why it is he won’t provide authentication of his sanity? In fact, I believe I’ve read you to imply that you agree with Randi, is that not so?      And the original offer called for a method to win the award, not any particular man to win it. http://marius.netfirms.com/      The method has been provided, in fact many of them have been provided, suitable for accomplishing the called for task htttp://marius.netfirms.com/research.html       In fact, I even found and I submit here again its abstract for your review, a published report of a public demonstation by (another) two Frenchmen who accomplished the very thing called for, selecting the correct flask out of six 100 times out of 100 in a double blind trial using a modified galvanometer. http://marius.netfirms.com/GAYBOIRON.html      But now that’s not good enough. Now the question has reverted to the qualifications of the man who brought you the method. "Ah, the method of determination doesn’t matter anymore, what really matters to us is Benneth’s sanity. And now we’re concerned that we may have gone to far in provoking the poor loon."      Could it be that you’r attacking me, Syd, because you’ve seen how easy it is? I ‘ve read you responding to questions about homeoapthy as if you believe in it, explaining its qualities and virtues, yet you seem to believe that somehow these methods that prove the real existence of a homeopathic force to be inconsequential. Perhaps you secretly hope that if Benneth can be disqualified, there might be an opportunity for you to win the award? After all, once the method is known, proper execution, when the reward is so high, can be assured if one pleases the magician. If you can get the current contgender disqualified, that leaves you as the authority.     I am aslo compelled to note that you failed to direct this message to me by way of e-mail, having left off my name from the return address. And you didn’t post this question to the mailing list dedicated to this very subject, of which you are a member, now did you? Why not write to me directly about it if you were really seeking a response? I just happened to find this message, but htese messages become quickly buried in these newsgroups, you ought to know, you post to them frequently.      Strange behavior for a man who claims to be an authority on how to combat depression. Maybe you’re subconciously trying to steal this award from me by driving me insane, is that it? ANd even if I am a little odd, it shouldn’t relieve Randi, science, medicine, fair reporting or you of your reponsibilities in this matter, now should it?      Seems like it went from ad rem to ad hominem ad nauseum all too quickly, eh Sys ol’ sot?      Butlooky here, Syd. Tomorrow’s a new day, and you know I love you and that I’ll owe you a sizeable chunk of the award if I ever win it, because you were the one who got me into it, and despite being a bit of a buttinsky, here you still are, at my side, faithful as a somewhat disobedient lapdog. I’ve never avoided a time or a place for a test of a method because one’s never been offered. If there’s been an argument from me, its been simply to question the validity of the fairness and intent of the Psychic Challenge. I think this bunch has been engaing in racketeering, and my intuition tells me something more, and I’ve been regularly forwarding these posts tot he Department of Justice and GOldman Sachs.      So test me, try me. try the methods I’ve presented. Call Schwartz at the HESL. Epstein at Mt. St. Mary’s. Do your job as a journalist.  Interview Conte, the leading authority, IMO, in homeopathic research in the world today.  Talk to Chris Wodtke, the world’s best Kirlian photogrpaher, the man who took those amazing pictures of the homeoapthic aura and identified 80% of the solutions I sent him in a blinded trial.. Write to Wayne Jonas, the founding director of the Office of Alternative Medicine at the NIH. Or write them all. Stupid people just sit around and speculate with their opinions,Syd. They’re usually very arrogant, "knowing people. They never ask really open ended questions, or really try to get information about anything. They’re affected by hubris. Did COlombo ever solve a case by being uppity? But smart people actually dig into things, ask questions and investigate. Why not be a smart person?  I’ll send you their addresses. Fair enough? You can even run the tests yourself. They’re relatively fast and easy. The HESL did and got some rather odd ahnd anomalous results, just as I predicted, so now they’re going at it again. They’re digging. You should … read more »

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      It’s been suggested by Louis "Bowels" Minatti in the above newsgroups that I hate Randi. Lou, Lou, this is nonsense! I am compelled to state that nothing could be further from the truth! Why, I love the dear little elf! Sounds like you have a Randi fetish. Don’t you mean ‘fettish’? fetish – n.     1 any object believed by superstitious people to have magical power     2 any thing or activity to which one is irrationally devoted !to make a fetish of sports"     3 Psychiatry any nonsexual object, such as a foot or a glove, that abnormally excites erotic feelings Also sp. fet4ich fettish – Commonly misspelled entry for fetish

I didn’t get Citizen Ted’s comment either. — Happy Holidays from SpOOk Central! http://www.watchingyou.com  ____     ____    __  __            ____    ____    ______               /  _`  /  _` / /  _______ /  _` /  _` /  _    /’_/`    

Response:

<A bunch of idiotic horseshit This has nothing to do with magic. Go away. Before you buy.

Response:

     It’s been suggested by Louis "Bowels" Minatti in the above newsgroups that I hate Randi. Lou, Lou, this is nonsense! I am compelled to state that nothing could be further from the truth! Why, I love the dear little elf! Sounds like you have a Randi fetish.

        Don’t you mean ‘fettish’?         – TR         – welcoming the new Earl Gordon Curley. Hey Johnny: got any predictions for 2000? <guffaw

Response:

     It’s been suggested by Louis "Bowels" Minatti in the above newsgroups that I hate Randi. Lou, Lou, this is nonsense! I am compelled to state that nothing could be further from the truth! Why, I love the dear little elf! Sounds like you have a Randi fetish. Don’t you mean ‘fettish’?

fetish – n.     1 any object believed by superstitious people to have magical power     2 any thing or activity to which one is irrationally devoted !to make a fetish of sports"     3 Psychiatry any nonsexual object, such as a foot or a glove, that abnormally excites erotic feelings Also sp. fet4ich fettish –     Commonly misspelled entry for fetish

Response:

Pathetic. Truly pathetic.

Response:

     It’s been suggested by Louis "Bowels" Minatti in the above newsgroups that I hate Randi. Lou, Lou, this is nonsense! I am compelled to state that nothing could be further from the truth! Why, I love the dear little elf!

Sounds like you have a Randi fetish. Be sure to check out John’s favorite web page! http://www.watchingyou.com/randi.html — Happy Holidays from SpOOk Central! http://www.watchingyou.com  ____     ____    __  __            ____    ____    ______               /  _`  /  _` / /  _______ /  _` /  _` /  _    /’_/`    

Response:

     It’s been suggested by Louis "Bowels" Minatti in the above newsgroups that I hate Randi. Lou, Lou, this is nonsense! I am compelled to state that nothing could be further from the truth! Why, I love the dear little elf!      How could I hate a man who has offered me such great wealth?      This man, Randal James Hamilton Zwinge, aka DOCTOR James "the Amazing" Randi, has been the pathway to my salvation!       You know, he certainly looks like Santa Claus to me, and he’s been like Santa Claus to me! Because of him I have received many spiritual gifts, much learning of material fact, and if promises hold true, through him I will be made a very rich man in fact, and in deed!        And he’s amusing, too!        The man is generous beyond words, his largesse knows no end!     . Yes, he’s been a tough teacher and a difficult task master who has held me to my lessons, but consider the payoff.      Little do those who chide me suspect how much . . .      I have a great deal of thanks and praise for the dear old fellow. Beyond his known virtues as an accomplished magician and perhaps the world’s greatest escape artist, there is much much more that those who think otherwise do not know.      Say, did you see him that time he wriggled out of a straight jacket while being dangled by his heels over Niagara Falls?  He even manages to appear to get away with soliciting minors for sex, of the male gender nonetheless!  I think this guy can even get away with murder! I bet this man could eat a baby for lunch in full view of the world and receive thunderous applause for it. He is truly the Amazing Randi!       Now how could I want to do anything but repay this man for all his great deeds? So, for his reward, I’m determined to assist as much as I am able to give him exactly what he needs . . . . and exactly what he deserves . . . John Benneth

Response:

     Say, did you see him that time he wriggled out of a straight jacket while being dangled by his heels over Niagara Falls?  He even manages to appear to get away with soliciting minors for sex, of the male gender nonetheless!  I think this guy can even get away with murder! I bet this man could eat a baby for lunch in full view of the world and receive thunderous applause for it. He is truly the Amazing Randi!

… And after posting this, you want him to give you money? Please, tell me you’re trying to be funny. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John Benneth

Response:

    Here’s some of the simple ways I’ve come up with to prove homeopathy. These are the methods that have driven Randi to accuse me of insanity. These are methods anyone can use to apply to and theoretically win the Psychic Challenge.

You should have titled your post "Fifty Ways to Fleece the Fools". Ladies and Gentlemen: Please know that you are free to send to John whatever you please.  It is not for me to say what you can do with your money.  However, you should know that his claims of homeopathic miracles go un-reported in the press, newspapers, TV, etc; unfinanced by leading banks and un-validated by the leading scientific research institutions for a very good reason-  The Global Randi Cabal! Yes folks, little did you know that that gentle skeptic is really in charge of the entire Global News Network, dictating to his minions how they should strive to keep John Benneth and his miracles out of the public eye. You see, Randi considers Benneth the greatest threat to world peace since P.T. Barnum.  John is such a major threat, that Randi was forced to use his secret psychic powers to bring every news organization in the world under his personal control- just to counter John. (Though it is curious that one paper failed to fall under his spell-  The Weekly World News.  No one has been able to adaquately explain that.) You should also know that the Randi Cabal is working dilligently to bring all the world’s major financial institutions under his control.  He has already seized power in the stock exchanges (how else can you explain the amazing rise in the markets lately!), and several major banks will announce their capitulation soon by rasing the ATM rates again. All because John Benneth is such a great threat. Randi has also siezed control of major scientific research institutions through the simple expedient of controling all major funding organizations- both public and private.  Mustn’t let the World’s Greatest Threat- John Benneth- get near MIT! So, by all means, send John all your loose change…. what the hell!  Send him the rent money too! But save a couple of bucks for a dunce cap-  you will be required to wear one for buying John’s drivel. Here is a question to ask yourself: If water can retain the memory of chemical and biological agents through countless dilutions, how come we are not all very dead right now? Think of the homeopathic memories the water from the tap has:  E-Coli is least offensive way I can put one contaminant.  Bet there are all sorts of interesting compounds that your water has come in contact with lately, like- various soap products, drano, toxic salt concentrations, cooling water from tool & die shop, those science experiments at the high school, and whatever it is that oozes out of Aunt Millie’s mo….  but enough of that. For you folks who, like me, get your water from the well,  the ground is chock full of minute concentrations of all sort of nasty things-  arsenic, mold, old rusty Dodges, your sister-in-law’s fruitcake (the one with the half-life of 73 years) that you buried, to say nothing about what all those nasty forest creatures are depositing. And this witches brew of nastiness comes out of your tap- just brimming with these highly diluted, but still toxic "memories"- cutting down all before Brother John can save the day with his glass of altered ph water. Right? So, if you really want to send your hard earned money to John, be aware that it is not Randi who is John’s enemy, it is common sense.  Randi is not the one who stands between John Benneth and sainthood, it is the intelligence that you were born with. Randi is simply the scapgoat of all failed purveyors of silliness, like John. Hell- come to that, if you really _must_ send someone your money, send it to ME!  I’m not selling any foolishness, nor am I trying to hawk some dubious science and blaming all my failures on some Great Satan. That’s gotta be worth something! hutch (Remove The Beast for email) Sometimes, it is better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness. — Terry Pratchett

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     So I need your help to maintain this fight. Give me a call. If you’re interested in joining with me in this battle, I’d like to talk This is a battle we’re going to win, but only if I get your help to do it. So please contact me today, and offer me what material or spiritual support you can afford. John Benneth 503 661 4842

And if you raised enough money to hire a major accounting firm to hold the double-blind code for a preliminary trial demonstration of your yeast-, pH-, or other test, would you do the test for the JREF, as your formerly close associate, the homeopath Alain Jean-Mairet, Randi, and I (who you have so often publicly described as fair and impartial) painstakingly negotiated for you last August (complete with the promise of a signed in advance – by Randi – copy of your application form)?  Or are there other reasons why you feel such a test still wouldn’t be fair? (Please specify.)  Remember, you can satisfy Randi’s claimed fear of legal liability should you go postal or something by having Gary Schwartz testify in writing to your mental stability (if that’s his judgement, as you’ve implied) or simply by signing a notarized waiver yourself, as offered by Randi a few months ago. Syd            http://www.escape.ca/~sgb                      Dealing with Depression Naturally                               and other books by Syd Baumel.

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     Here’s some of the simple ways I’ve come up with to prove homeopathy.

CHALLANGE’S #$%!! rules and PASSING it is not one of them. Funny that you can’t really do that, but keep demanding the money, eh Mr. Benneth? No wonder Randi laughs in your face. Did you get any reply from Janet Reno yet? No? Thought so… Avital Pilpel

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http://www.watchingyou.com/randi.html

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–     Here’s some of the simple ways I’ve come up with to proven homeopathy. This whole discussion is pointless, because even if can show a difference between a homeopathic solution and one that isn’t a homeopathic solution, it doesn’t mean that homeopathic solutions can cure sickness whatsoever.  Only double blind studies can do that.  Any money should go into that.  So what if PH might be different or if your oat seeds do better?  Big deal.  Let’s see if they can cure diseases. I would also like to mention that during the 1800s when homeopathy was created, it was during a time when health knowledge was so awful, that anything that had no side effects was better than what supposed doctors practiced.  For example, it was thought that infections actually were useful in trying to cure wounds, which is why a lot people died.  It’s no wonder that homeopathy was so popular back then if it didn’t harm anyone!

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–     Here’s some of the simple ways I’ve come up with to proven homeopathy. This whole discussion is pointless, because even if can show a difference between a homeopathic solution and one that isn’t a homeopathic solution, it doesn’t mean that homeopathic solutions can cure sickness whatsoever.  Only double blind studies can do that.  Any money should go into that.  So what if PH might be different or if your oat seeds do better?  Big deal.  Let’s see if they can cure diseases.

Tha’s why we have controlled clinical trials of homeopathy, of which there now are about 100.  As reviewed and meta-analyzed in the last decade in BMJ and The Lancet, these studies collectively very, very strongly suggest homeopathy is, in general, significantly superior to placebos and equal or better to active reference treatments for various conditions.  The odds against this being a fluke, spurious artifact, etc. – even when publication bias, methodological quality, and other relevant criteria are controlled for – are extremely high. See for example Linde et al., Lancet, 1997. But these studies MEAN NOTHING when it comes to Randi’s challenge – by definition.  And if you think it’s financially practical (or even logistically doable, to Randi’s satisfaction) for someone to win the challenge by demonstrating a statistically significant effect in a double-blind clinical trial, Randi has some choice real estate in the swamps of Florida he’d like to sell you. This is why simple tests such as those which Benneth could do if he really wanted to or was able to are the most sensible way to win the Challenge. Syd            http://www.escape.ca/~sgb                      Dealing with Depression Naturally                               and other books by Syd Baumel.                                      …and cool record reviews!

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    Here’s some of the simple ways I’ve come up with to prove homeopathy. These are the methods that have driven Randi to accuse me of insanity. These are methods anyone can use to apply to and theoretically win the Psychic Challenge. http://www.randi.org     They don’t use people and three of the methods make use of common household products.     In one method I presented to Randi, the yeast test, one can use bottles containing a mixture of sugar and yeast and measure their reaction to homeopathic substances by placing balloons over the bottle mouth which expand with out gassing.

OK…so why don’t you tell us what your protocol is? This is pretty vague.     I got this idea from a couple of British researchers from the Royal Homeopathic Academy, Jones and Jenkins. I forwarded their study to Randi in July, when he asked me for it. http://www.marius.net/yeast.html (this link is often down)

Yes, I guess so…I just tried it. So what good is it? [snip more claims and paranoia] Yes, yes, yes. You claim to be able to get 150% more growth with homeopathic solutions. So what? Claims are cheap. What’s the methodology? Can I do this at home? Can a kid do this for a science fair project? If it’s so easy and unambiguous, as you imply, why don’t we see more similar results? If your homeopathic treatments can increase plant growth so much, why aren’t farmers doing it? If it can ‘reverse’ cancer, as you claim, how come homeopaths still get cancer?     So I need your help to maintain this fight. Give me a call. If you’re interested in joining with me in this battle, I’d like to talk This is a battle we’re going to win, but only if I get your help to do it. So please contact me today, and offer me what material or spiritual support you can afford.

Tsk, tsk. Asking for money this way is a great way to flag yourself as a charlatan. — PZ Myers

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     Here’s some of the simple ways I’ve come up with to prove homeopathy. These are the methods that have driven Randi to accuse me of insanity. These are methods anyone can use to apply to and theoretically win the Psychic Challenge. http://www.randi.org      They don’t use people and three of the methods make use of common household products.      In one method I presented to Randi, the yeast test, one can use bottles containing a mixture of sugar and yeast and measure their reaction to homeopathic substances by placing balloons over the bottle mouth which expand with out gassing.      I got this idea from a couple of British researchers from the Royal Homeopathic Academy, Jones and Jenkins. I forwarded their study to Randi in July, when he asked me for it. http://www.marius.net/yeast.html (this link is often down)      About two months later, Randi allegedly sent the yeast "protocol" to a government chemist by the name of Mike Epstein for review. Epstein is also an instructor at Mt. St. Mary’s College in Emmitsburg, MD. Epstein reportedly has received a thousand dollars from Randi for debunking pseudoscience, and Epstein has titled his website as "Psychic Chemistry and James Randi." Check it out for yourself. http://www.spectrometer.org/path/randi.html       Since Randi refused to identify Epstein, I had to track him down and contact him myself after I found mention of him on Randi’s website. After corresponding with me briefly, Epstein now refuses to answer any further questions from me.       In another test I found that oat seeds produced a dramatic reaction to homeopathic drugs. I was given this idea by Patty Smith of the British Homeopathic Institute and Emil Golub, of Plant Homeopathy, who produces homeopathic agriculture stimulants.      Previous researchers, such as Conte, Roy and Boyd have also reported homeopathic action on plants.      In my test, the test samples produced 150% more growth over the controls.      In another test I found that pH appeared to be altered by homeopathic substances. I got this idea from a report by scientists in a study commissioned by the Indian government. Currently this test is being replicated by the Human Energy Systems Laboratory at the University of Arizona in Tucson.      In another test I found what appeared to be differences in the electrographic aura produced around droplets of water.  I got this idea from Jean Elmiger, M.D.,  the author of REDISCOVERING REAL MEDICINE. The test was run by Kirlian photographer Chris Wodtke.      Obviously, then, there are many methods by which to demonstrate the action of homeopathic drugs, using, enzymes, plants and animals.      The methods I have come up with are simplifications of studies I have found in the published literature. Each of the procedures I have presented here, which the exception of the electrography, have been substantiated by more comprehensive research done by professional scientific investigators.      But these methods are not generally known by mainstream science, and not even generally known by homeopaths.      But what has the response been? It’s been to mis-characterize me personally and call me a fraud or insane. That’s the only way the Randians can try to squeeze out of the straight jacket they’ve donned.       Attack the man, dismiss the method . . . and try to shut down  his website, which mysteriously keeps going off-line. I reported this to Epstein, hoping that he would have a sense of fair play and help to insure that I have a secure website. Yeah, right, dream on.   But the problem for them will forever remain, nevertheless, because the method remains even after the man is gone.     So now I’m reaching out to you, the reader, to assist me in this battle. I don’t know what it is specifically that you should be able to do, but I believe that if you are receiving this message, you have the ability to help, and I believe its important not just for you on a personal level, I think its important for all of Mankind..      Obviously we need financial support in this battle. We also need a secure website so we can present this data. We also need the support of connections. We need air time, so we can present our findings, we need an editor, we need ink, we need a webmaster. We need to turn this into a serious business, and I want your help to do it.      So if you’re critical about this, get off your high horse and give me a hand nto make it right. The proof here is overwhelming. Once you have seen the results of these tests and you have reviewed the literature, there will be no doubt in your mind that his is an effective form of medical treatment and that it has far reaching implications, not just for medicine but for agriculture and industry as well, and it opens up new possibilities for scientific theory that is beginning to take on mythic proportions.      I don’t need an argument by kids playing on the newsgroups, what I need is real, substantive HELP. We need financial assistance and people with real skills to extend and expand this discussion and to present these finding comprehensively. We need a publisher. We need a producer, we need a budget.       I couldn’t ask if I was just asking for myself. But I’m not just asking for myself. I’m convinced the quality of life and life itself, hangs in the balance.And this includes those who would try to suppress this information through ridicule and fraud,      This evidence, and evidence like it, needs to be better known by more people. It’s a threat to existing paradigms and so every time it gets presented, I get kicked.      Look, dear reader. We don’t need to be kicked or put down or humiliated for exploring a little known and mysterious phenomena. We don’t need to be threatened for investigating anomalies. We need to know more about these things, not less.      On principle alone, what Randi and his cohorts are doing is wrong. I believe that this whole "Psychic Challenge" has been a cover for criminal activity, and that it’s operating at your expense.      The Psychic Challenge hasn’t been about encouraging scientific exploration. It’s been about hurting people who are advancing our understanding of physics and medicine. The Psychic Challenge is about repressing free thinking.        These people who support the Psychic Challenge canard are discouraging tentative explorations into subtle energy phenomena. We need more discussion about these things in a civil manner. But our battle to understand subtle energy phenomena and to share our discoveries with the world needs the support of more people than it currently has.       In every case I’ve looked at where there has been a discovery of the action on plants animals or enzymes, or a mechanical survey, the report has faded into ignominy. I presume that the investigator who made the report in each instance was hammered down by rejection, threats  and ridicule, just as I have been.      Just recently, for instance, two Italian researchers discovered minute thermal differences in homeopathically potentized water. This alone demonstrates that a real phenomenon exists in homeopathic medicine. But was it seized upon by the medical community to herald the advent of a new medicine? Was the world community of science challenged to examine a new field of endeavor?      My review of the literature has found over fifty (50) reports detailing the effect of homeopathic drugs on enzymes, plants, animals and instruments. And Randi still insists homeopathic drugs are placebos? http://marius.netfirms.com/research.html       The only difference here, from now and the past, I think, is this, the Internet. Because here the reports are not screened out by producers and editors. Here the scoffers can only respond ad hominem. Look at the previous threads for my posts on the newsgroups and you’ll see what I mean.       It’s not easy to believe in these subtle energy phenomena, they fly in the face of reason. They become open targets for ridicule, and so to date, the homeopathic industry has to just chug along and keep its head down.       But here on the Internet, information can be kept perpetually before the public. These reports have far reaching implications for medicine and agriculture. It can become the prevailing paradigm for medicine, but its going to be chore to make it so, because its opponents are legion.       But consider this. Even though it has met with tremendous opposition, it has recently been making millions of dollars simply as cold and hay fever remedies. And what we know about it is minuscule compared to what is indicated as to what it can do.       I have found, in my studies, where genetic cancer was reversed by the use of homeopathic drugs. From another research team I learned that homeopathic drugs appear to actually affect the DNA. We’ve seen reports of premature metamorphoses and even death induced by homeopathic drugs. This suggests, and clinical reports concur, with the suggestion that any disease can be reversed through the use of homeopathic drugs.      It also suggest that a misunderstanding of their use is endangering the health of people worldwide. Now here we have Rnadi colluding with an employee of the government. Do Epstein’s supervisor’s know what he’s doing? Are they supportive of this? How high does this go? If they’re colluding with foreign nationals such as Sima Nan through the Psychic Challenge, does that constitute treason? Was Randi ever naturalized after he swam over from Toronto?      But what do we hear in response to that? What he hear are catcalls and quacking, and the faint of heart step away . . .      There isn’t really much known about the action or use of homeopathic medicines. It’s really an entirely open field, that despite the egregious amount of scoffing it has suffered from medicine and physics, has been growing at an unprecedented rate. Much to the chagrin of those who have scoffed at it previously, these products are now being advertised openly and sold over … read more »

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Question:

In my opinion, you should avoid MAS90 and State of the Art… I use the DOS version and it isn’t very flexible for inventory use, especially if you need to use one part number internally and one for the customer on invoices. I’ve heard the Window version is a little more flexible, but we can’t afford to upgrade to it… State of the Art price gouges and wants 60-75% of our DOS purchase price to upgrade each module…   It would be just as cheap to switch to a different software program than it would be to upgrade.  They are also dropping the DOS version so we’ll be left hanging with no future upgrades and no direct support. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a client who generates 1200+ invoices a month and has 3000 to 4000 inventory items.  Many of these items are bulk product which is then resized to smaller units.  He has really outgrown Peachtree sometime ago and experienced a significant number of Peachtree failures.  The last required 40+ hours of my time and 70+ hours of capable Peachtree support to solve. He generates sales order as the customer calls, selecting inventory items, then shipping and billing the same day. I do not believe that any of the low-end products (Peachtree, MYOB Premier, Champion Profit or the new networked QuickBooks) will be robust enough to handle his needs I know that there are few products between the very low-end and the much more expensive.  He would like to stay below $3,000.  The best possibility for a package in that arena that I know of for his needs is Orders Plus and Business Works.  Do any users here have experience with this package, particularly as concerns "robustness."  We do not want to do this a coupld of years from now again. I’m also interested in what packages in the Great Plains Dynamics price range users might recommend.

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I have a client who generates 1200+ invoices a month and has 3000 to 4000 inventory items.  Many of these items are bulk product which is then resized to smaller units.  He has really outgrown Peachtree sometime ago and experienced a significant number of Peachtree failures.  The last required 40+ hours of my time and 70+ hours of capable Peachtree support to solve. He generates sales order as the customer calls, selecting inventory items, then shipping and billing the same day. I do not believe that any of the low-end products (Peachtree, MYOB Premier, Champion Profit or the new networked QuickBooks) will be robust enough to handle his needs I know that there are few products between the very low-end and the much more expensive.  He would like to stay below $3,000.  The best possibility for a package in that arena that I know of for his needs is Orders Plus and Business Works.  Do any users here have experience with this package, particularly as concerns "robustness."  We do not want to do this a coupld of years from now again. I’m also interested in what packages in the Great Plains Dynamics price range users might recommend.

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Macola will do what your client needs, but it’s not cheap. It will handle the volume load and has great flexibility in inventory handling. For instance, you can buy bulk and sell individually. I’m biased since I’m a reseller. Dana

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MAS-90 or Business Works should meet your client’s needs- Both products are sold by State of the Art. see http://www.20-20.com/mas90w.htm for more info Mike Albright – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a client who generates 1200+ invoices a month and has 3000 to 4000 inventory items.  Many of these items are bulk product which is then resized to smaller units.  He has really outgrown Peachtree sometime ago and experienced a significant number of Peachtree failures.  The last required 40+ hours of my time and 70+ hours of capable Peachtree support to solve. He generates sales order as the customer calls, selecting inventory items, then shipping and billing the same day. I do not believe that any of the low-end products (Peachtree, MYOB Premier, Champion Profit or the new networked QuickBooks) will be robust enough to handle his needs I know that there are few products between the very low-end and the much more expensive.  He would like to stay below $3,000.  The best possibility for a package in that arena that I know of for his needs is Orders Plus and Business Works.  Do any users here have experience with this package, particularly as concerns "robustness."  We do not want to do this a coupld of years from now again. I’m also interested in what packages in the Great Plains Dynamics price range users might recommend.

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Question:

HI, I wonder if somebody could give me information about the way the FASB treats employee stock options in its rules. I have some material but that’s unfortunately a bit out of date. Most material I have is about the proposals made some years ago that stock options should be calculated as an additional cost for firms using them. Did those proposals actually go into practise? Another thing, and in my case the more important, is the appropriate valuation method used in valuing employee stock options. Is it the Black & Scholes formula that FASB recommends to use and if yes in what form?

it’s not really an additional "cost",  it’s how the additional shares are disclosed in calculating earnings per share.  I believe for most companies it’s still primary and full diluted using weighted number of shares.  One concern is the tax treatment – theres a big difference in "incentive" stock options and "non-qualified".  see http://www.aicpa.org

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HI, I wonder if somebody could give me information about the way the FASB treats employee stock options in its rules. I have some material but that’s unfortunately a bit out of date. Most material I have is about the proposals made some years ago that stock options should be calculated as an additional cost for firms using them. Did those proposals actually go into practise? Another thing, and in my case the more important, is the appropriate valuation method used in valuing employee stock options. Is it the Black & Scholes formula that FASB recommends to use and if yes in what form?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-02/01/092l-020198-id…

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HI, I wonder if somebody could give me information about the way the FASB treats employee stock options in its rules. I have some material but that’s unfortunately a bit out of date. Most material I have is about the proposals made some years ago that stock options should be calculated as an additional cost for firms using them. Did those proposals actually go into practise? Another thing, and in my case the more important, is the appropriate valuation method used in valuing employee stock options. Is it the Black & Scholes formula that FASB recommends to use and if yes in what form? Regards,

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HI, I wonder if somebody could give me information about the way the FASB treats employee stock options in its rules. I have some material but that’s unfortunately a bit out of date. Most material I have is about the proposals made some years ago that stock options should be calculated as an additional cost for firms using them. Did those proposals actually go into practise? Another thing, and in my case the more important, is the appropriate valuation method used in valuing employee stock options. Is it the Black & Scholes formula that FASB recommends to use and if yes in what form?

(Please bear in mind before you read my reply that I am UK, not US, qualified) The relevant standard is SFAS123.  This requires you to value *ALL* stock options granted to senior employees at the date of grant.  These are then charged to the income statement over the vesting period (ie the period over which the stock option is earned – usually 3 years in the UK).  I’m no expert on US reserve accounting but I believe the credit is to reserves. You’re right that it’s Black-Scholes we all have to learn.  I didn’t know there was more than one variety.  The variables I’ve used to check SFAS123 disclosure in the past were current price, exercise price, period to expiry and volatility.  I have a freeware Excel version that I found on the www if you wanted to see it. Black-Scholes valuation may give a value to an option even when granted at market value. There’s a happy ending to this story – a business that has previously reported using the old US standard, APB25, may continue to use it. Proforma disclosures under SFAS123 must be given as a supplement. — "If you want to look at my feet, say so," said the young man.  "But don’t be a God-damned sneak about it." (from "A Perfect Day for Bananafish")

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Question:

Hi. You are going to have to excuse my vagueness with this question, but I am writing for my mother.

John, She can enter the receipts as cash sales.  I am the treasurer for a local political party, and that is how we account for our contributions received, since we don;t even solicit pledges.

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why does’nt she quibooks version 5? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. You are going to have to excuse my vagueness with this question, but I am writing for my mother. My mom is the accountant/assistant at a local church, and they use Quickbooks 4 for their accounting purposes. The question she needs answered is: How does she create statements for pledge donations made, when the member has not actually made a pledge to the church. She has to keep track of all pledge money recvd, but some people simply give the money to the church without the benefit of a pledged amount. She has nothing to invoice them against, and she needs some way to track and create statements for this income. Right now she is tracking the money as a total amount donated, and has to keep record of who made what donation when on paper. She would like to be able to put this info into Quickbooks and have the program be able to generate statements of pledges made. I hope the above makes sense, and hope there is an answer. Thanks in advance John

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My mom is the accountant/assistant at a local church, and they use Quickbooks 4 for their accounting purposes. The question she needs answered is: How does she create statements for pledge donations made, when the member has not actually made a pledge to the church. She has to keep track of all pledge money recvd, but some people simply give the money to the church without the benefit of a pledged amount. She has nothing to invoice them against, and she needs some way to track and create statements for this income. Right now she is tracking the money as a total amount donated, and has to keep record of who made what donation when on paper. She would like to be able to put this info into Quickbooks and have the program be able to generate statements of pledges made.

My answers assume QB 5 and may not work for the buggier QB4. I am looking forward to multi-user QB6, which should be out by the end of this month. Create a Contributions and a Contributions-Pledged income account. Record pledges as invoices after changing the Invoice name in the form. Enter contributions made on pleges as Activity – Receive Payments. Enter other contributions as Activity – Make Deposits. Your Customer statements then show pledge activity and balances. Transaction detail reports can show activity of those not making pledges.   Mike Block, C.P.A. Tax Fighter, QuickBooks (Intuit) Partner 275 E Oakland Park Blvd, Ft Lauderdale, FL 33334;  954-566-7540       Taxation is theft.  Help stop this organized crime!

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John, x2.alliance.net Thia is an easier way of doing it: Set up the accounts as Mike mentioned, but instead of using an invoice, use a CASH Sales Receipt instead.  Use the pledger’s name as your customer.  Then, either put this directly to  your checking account or go thru Undeposited Funds and then into make deposits.  (I recommend thru Make Deposits as your check regesiter deposits will match your bank statement. Hope this helps Paul A. Simpson Bartee Consulting – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. You are going to have to excuse my vagueness with this question, but I am writing for my mother. My mom is the accountant/assistant at a local church, and they use Quickbooks 4 for their accounting purposes. The question she needs answered is: How does she create statements for pledge donations made, when the member has not actually made a pledge to the church. She has to keep track of all pledge money recvd, but some people simply give the money to the church without the benefit of a pledged amount. She has nothing to invoice them against, and she needs some way to track and create statements for this income. Right now she is tracking the money as a total amount donated, and has to keep record of who made what donation when on paper. She would like to be able to put this info into Quickbooks and have the program be able to generate statements of pledges made. I hope the above makes sense, and hope there is an answer. Thanks in advance John

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Hi. You are going to have to excuse my vagueness with this question, but I am writing for my mother. My mom is the accountant/assistant at a local church, and they use Quickbooks 4 for their accounting purposes. The question she needs answered is: How does she create statements for pledge donations made, when the member has not actually made a pledge to the church. She has to keep track of all pledge money recvd, but some people simply give the money to the church without the benefit of a pledged amount. She has nothing to invoice them against, and she needs some way to track and create statements for this income. Right now she is tracking the money as a total amount donated, and has to keep record of who made what donation when on paper. She would like to be able to put this info into Quickbooks and have the program be able to generate statements of pledges made. I hope the above makes sense, and hope there is an answer. Thanks in advance John

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You might open up an accounts receivable for pledges. QuickBooks will handle billing for more than one A/R account.  Since the nature of pledges if voluntary perhaps it helps to have them separated into their own AR? Regards, Wayne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. You are going to have to excuse my vagueness with this question, but I am writing for my mother. My mom is the accountant/assistant at a local church, and they use Quickbooks 4 for their accounting purposes. The question she needs answered is: How does she create statements for pledge donations made, when the member has not actually made a pledge to the church. She has to keep track of all pledge money recvd, but some people simply give the money to the church without the benefit of a pledged amount. She has nothing to invoice them against, and she needs some way to track and create statements for this income. Right now she is tracking the money as a total amount donated, and has to keep record of who made what donation when on paper. She would like to be able to put this info into Quickbooks and have the program be able to generate statements of pledges made. I hope the above makes sense, and hope there is an answer. Thanks in advance John

Schulz Consulting http://www.s-consult.com MAS 90 Consultants Since 1986 860-295-9271

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Question:

Hi, I’ll be spending 8 weeks in August/September this year in Montana (mainly), Idaho and Wyoming and was wondering whether I need to get myself vaccinated against Rabies before the trip. I plan to do a lot of day-hiking, and I would appreciate any advice on whether I need to go ahead with the jabs.

I didn’t know there _was_ a human vaccination against rabies. —   Dr. Albert P. Gerheim   |    Sonalysts, Inc. PO. Box 280   1 (800) 526-8091 X 218  |        Waterford, CT  06385

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I didn’t know there _was_ a human vaccination against rabies.

I didn’t think there was a vaccine against rabies, either. I thought you got the shot only if you have reason to believe the animal that bit you was rabid. Diana

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Funny how Americans become so offended when we are made fun of in foreign countries but here someone is asking us a question about something not found in the UK and the only two responses were attempts at humor.  

Funny how people named Ross tend to generalize about Americans. I guess I should have put my little explanation for the humor-impaired at the beginning of my post. Sorry. cheers, scott /Everything I know is wrong./ /I don’t speak for my employer, nor do they endorse my views./

Response:

I didn’t know there _was_ a human vaccination against rabies.

There is a safe, effictive, and expensive series of immunizations for rabies that provide long term or lifetime protection. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I didn’t think there was a vaccine against rabies, either. I thought you got the shot only if you have reason to believe the animal that bit you was rabid. Diana

Response:

: I’ll be spending 8 weeks in August/September this year in Montana : (mainly), Idaho and Wyoming and was wondering whether I need to get : myself vaccinated against Rabies before the trip. I plan to do a lot of : day-hiking, and I would appreciate any advice on whether I need to go : ahead with the jabs.

Absolutely not! — Michael J. Gallagher, RN Do or do not. There is no try.                        - –  Yoda    

Response:

I didn’t know there _was_ a human vaccination against rabies. I didn’t think there was a vaccine against rabies, either. I thought you got the shot only if you have reason to believe the animal that bit you was rabid. Diana

There is a Vaccine, I know as I am vaccinated.  Vets always have them and folks who have potentially dangerous encounters with animals.  I my case I had taken a mammalogy class And we were collecting rodents and bats, which btw DONT like to be collected.  If you can afford it and have a tendancy to open your heart to strays It’s probably not a bad Idea, but you need a booster every 2 years or so. -bryan

Response:

I’ll be spending 8 weeks in August/September this year in Montana (mainly), Idaho and Wyoming and was wondering whether I need to get myself vaccinated against Rabies before the trip. I plan to do a lot of day-hiking, and I would appreciate any advice on whether I need to go ahead with the jabs.

I wouldn’t worry about it.  The risk of rabies contact is very low, and can be further mitigated by using your head around animals.  Any animal which normally shoul be active at night, but is seen during the day, should be avoided.  This especially concerns raccoons and skunks.  Bats flying free in your campsite at dusk are to be enjoyed, not fretted over.  If you are attacked by a large predator, you will have more immediate worries about blood loss or shock.  You are in greater danger from the next door neighbor’s Pekinese than from any wild animal.    By the way, the hospital I work for charges $260 for the pre-exposure immunization medications, not including doctor and administration fees. Have fun, Bryan McCullough, R.Ph.

Response:

: I’ll be spending 8 weeks in August/September this year in Montana : (mainly), Idaho and Wyoming and was wondering whether I need to get : myself vaccinated against Rabies before the trip. I plan to do a lot of : day-hiking, and I would appreciate any advice on whether I need to go : ahead with the jabs. : If you’ll be a good hiker and not bite your fellows, you can probably : get by without it.  If you get caught biting someone and your hiking : license doesn’t show a valid rabies vaccination, you run the risk of : being quarantined for observation or worse, destroyed. Do they still remove your brain to see if you have rabies?

Funny how Americans become so offended when we are made fun of in foreign countries but here someone is asking us a question about something not found in the UK and the only two responses were attempts at humor.   What if, for example, you were travelling to Central Africa and had concerns about Loa Loa (African Eye Worm) and the only suggestion you got from the locals was to enucleate your eyes on arrival to prevent the worms from getting in them.  You’d think they were jerks, and you would still have concerns. Anyway, not trying to be stuffy, just something to think about. Steve P.S.  I also see no reason for the shots.

Response:

Hi, I’ll be spending 8 weeks in August/September this year in Montana (mainly), Idaho and Wyoming and was wondering whether I need to get myself vaccinated against Rabies before the trip. I plan to do a lot of day-hiking, and I would appreciate any advice on whether I need to go ahead with the jabs. Thanks,       Ian.

No.  I wouldn’t spend even a nanosecond worrying about rabies. It should be just about the last of your worries unless you are notified of rabies epidemic in the area which is unlikely.  From 1980 to 1990–9 of 13 cases reported to the Center for Disease Control in the US (and virtually all US cases are), were from exposure to rabid animals outside the United States.  In 1995 there were four cases of human rabies all associated with bats.  In fact, of the 15 of 28 cases reported to the US Center for Disease Control since 1980, all were thought to be associated with bats.  Thus, your risk of death from rabies is extremely small compared in decreasing order to that from a motor vehicle accident (by far the highest risk), falls, poisoning, drowning, fires or burns, ingestion of objects, firearms, lightning strikes, bee stings, or rattlesnake bites (3 to 10 per year).  The risk of rabies does rate, however, just above that for a fatal mountain lion attack–about one every 3 years in the US and Canada combined. Following the marked decrease of rabies cases among domestic animals in the United States in the 1940s and 1950s, indigenously acquired rabies among humans decreased to fewer than two cases per year in the 1960s and 1970s and fewer than one case per year during the 1980s (1). In 1950, for example, 4,979 cases of rabies were reported among dogs and 18 were reported among human populations; in 1989, 160 cases were reported among dogs and one was reported among humans. Thus, the likelihood of human exposure to a rabid domestic animal has decreased greatly; however, the many possible exposures that result from frequent contact between domestic dogs and humans continue to be the basis of most antirabies treatments (2). Rabies among wild animals–especially skunks, raccoons, and bats–has become more prevalent since the 1950s, accounting for greater than 85% of all reported cases of animal rabies every year since 1976 (1). Rabies among animals occurs throughout the continental United States; only Hawaii remains consistently rabies-free. Wild animals now constitute the most important potential source of infection for both humans and domestic animals in the United States. In much of the rest of the world, including most of Asia, Africa, and Latin America, the dog remains the major species with rabies and the major source of rabies among humans. Nine of the 13 human rabies deaths reported to CDC from 1980 through 1990 appear to have been related to exposure to rabid animals outside of the United States (3-9). Although rabies among humans is rare in the United States, every year approximately 18,000 persons receive rabies preexposure prophylaxis and an additional 10,000 receive postexposure prophylaxis. Appropriate management of persons possibly exposed to rabies depends on the interpretation of the risk of infection. Decisions about management must be made immediately. All available methods of systemic prophylactic treatment are complicated by occasional adverse reactions, but these are rarely severe. Data on the efficacy of active and passive rabies immunization have come from both human and animal studies. Evidence from laboratory and field experience in many areas of the world indicates that postexposure prophylaxis combining local wound treatment, passive immunization, and vaccination is uniformly effective when appropriately applied. However, rabies has occasionally developed among humans when key elements of the rabies postexposure prophylaxis treatment regimens were omitted or incorrectly administered (see Postexposure Treatment Outside the United States). RABIES IMMUNIZING PRODUCTS There are two types of rabies immunizing products.    1.Rabies vaccines induce an active immune response that includes the production of neutralizing      antibodies. This antibody response requires approximately 7-10 days to develop and usually      persists for greater than or equal to 2 years.    2.Rabies immune globulins (RIG) provide rapid, passive immune protection that persists for      only a short time (half-life of approximately 21 days) (21,22). In almost all postexposure      prophylaxis regimens, both products should be used concurrently. Preexposure vaccination should be offered to persons among high-risk groups, such as veterinarians, animal handlers, certain laboratory workers, and persons spending time (e.g., 1 month) in foreign countries where canine rabies is endemic. Other persons whose activities bring them into frequent contact with rabies virus or potentially rabid dogs, cats, skunks, raccoons, bats, or other species at risk of having rabies should also be considered for preexposure prophylaxis. Preexposure prophylaxis is given for several reasons. First, it may provide protection to persons with inapparent exposures to rabies. Second, it may protect persons whose postexposure therapy might be delayed. Finally, although preexposure vaccination does not eliminate the need for additional therapy after a rabies exposure, it simplifies therapy by eliminating the need for HRIG and decreasing the number of doses of vaccine needed–a point of particular importance for persons at high risk of being exposed to rabies in areas where immunizing products may not be available or where they may carry a high risk of adverse reactions. Most of the above information was taken from a US CDC publication.  I hope it answers your questions.

Response:

Hi, I’ll be spending 8 weeks in August/September this year in Montana (mainly), Idaho and Wyoming and was wondering whether I need to get myself vaccinated against Rabies before the trip. I plan to do a lot of day-hiking, and I would appreciate any advice on whether I need to go ahead with the jabs. Thanks,       Ian.

Response:

I’ll be spending 8 weeks in August/September this year in Montana (mainly), Idaho and Wyoming and was wondering whether I need to get myself vaccinated against Rabies before the trip. I plan to do a lot of day-hiking, and I would appreciate any advice on whether I need to go ahead with the jabs.

If you’ll be a good hiker and not bite your fellows, you can probably get by without it.  If you get caught biting someone and your hiking license doesn’t show a valid rabies vaccination, you run the risk of being quarantined for observation or worse, destroyed. Hope this helps. scott P.S. for the humor impaired: this means no. /Everything I know is wrong./ /I don’t speak for my employer, nor do they endorse my views./

Response:

: I’ll be spending 8 weeks in August/September this year in Montana : (mainly), Idaho and Wyoming and was wondering whether I need to get : myself vaccinated against Rabies before the trip. I plan to do a lot of : day-hiking, and I would appreciate any advice on whether I need to go : ahead with the jabs. : If you’ll be a good hiker and not bite your fellows, you can probably : get by without it.  If you get caught biting someone and your hiking : license doesn’t show a valid rabies vaccination, you run the risk of : being quarantined for observation or worse, destroyed. Do they still remove your brain to see if you have rabies?

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