Question:

Hi Smeg, I’m 32, and recently finished my accounting degree by correspondence. Having done it, I wish I’d gone to classes instead. If you do it by correspondence, your sole source of knowledge is the text book. If it’s badly written, or you can’t get into it, you’re completely stuck. You can’t go on to read the next paragraph until you’ve read (and understood) the last one, so it’s easy to give up for the night and then suddenly find yourself a week behind with assignments due. At least with classes, you get all the way to the end of the lecture, and have a social network of other students to talk about that week’s topic with. Having said that, sometimes correspondence courses are better because you’re forced to be creative and come up with your own ideas, so you end up with something completely original in the assignments. But overall, it’s much safer to have other people to talk to about the subject. So here’s what I would look at when evaluating correspondence courses. 1) Does it have an active web board, so students can get together and discuss a particular chapter? Not just study groups (no-one ever gets round to actually organising them). But a web board, like alt.accounting, for students of your course to talk about, say, chapter 5. (NB: if you’re in the habit of kicking back on the computer anyway, having a website to go to that makes you think about your course is a great way of staying motivated) 2) Does the text book you’re using have lots of worked examples? With answers? (Sometimes, they have questions, but no answers, so you don’t know if you got the answer right or not. If that happens, you won’t know if you’re on the right track until you get your exam results back). Try and see the course notes before enrolling. 3) How much feedback do you get from the institution? Some don’t give any due to their funding cuts. The best subject I did was in philosophy, where you were allowed to retake the assignment again and again (within the time frame) until you got the mark you wanted. That way, you got feedback on your answers, learned from your mistakes, and could give it another go. In all the other subjects, there was no feedback from lecturers, or place to kick ideas around, which made it harder. It would be even better to hear other people’s questions, because it makes you go "Wow! I hadn’t even thought of that issue!" 4) Do you have a nice place to study? To be able to concentrate on accounting for a solid block of time, I find I can’t be at home. My challenge was to find a quiet place, with a desk, good lighting, and a powerpoint, that was open for all the time I wanted to study. (I used a local library, which was great). 5) Also, how much time do you have to study? It might take longer than you planned to get through the material, because if you stop for any reason, it can take a while to get back to the same levels of concentration again. I found this usually happened if I didn’t understand something. I’d usually take a break, have a walk, maybe check out some of the shiny new library books, and ….. that would be it for the night. If you find yourself getting up and doing something else, realise that it’s probably because you came to a point where you also didn’t understand something, but that’s okay. Unfortunately, sitting down again and re-reading the paragraph takes horrible things like "discipline" and "willpower" and "handcuffs". What finally helped was to write a note to an imaginary tutor explaining exactly why the author was a moron, and where exactly he didn’t make sense. It makes not knowing what’s going on fun! But more importantly you zero in on exactly what the problem is. By the time I finished writing my rant, half the time I’d have realise what the solution was, which wouldn’t have happened had I gone for a walk and come back to it. Having said all that, I’m glad I finished it. Good luck with it! Durand – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello everyone, my questions deals woth weather or not to pursue an accounting career as a CGA, I am 38 haven’t been inside of a school since the mid 80s, some post secondary, not much, several years in management(middle), a very diverse back ground, with middle to low math skills, no formal training, my postion was disolved so now not sure where to go or what to do, last year salary 50g, and would a CGA compare to this wage or better? so is it worth a try or should I look else where?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello everyone, my questions deals woth weather or not to pursue an accounting career as a CGA, I am 38 haven’t been inside of a school since the mid 80s, some post secondary, not much, several years in management(middle), a very diverse back ground, with middle to low math skills, no formal training, my postion was disolved so now not sure where to go or what to do, last year salary 50g, and would a CGA compare to this wage or better? so is it worth a try or should I look else where? I have found that many people can make a lot of money with a knowledge of accounting whether or not they go for some designation (CGA, CPA, etc.).  In my opinion it depends on what you do with the knowledge your get.  You need to be able to sell yourself to a potential employer.  It would be good to have a knowledge of computers to go along with the accounting knowledge since both of these work so closely together.  That way your "low math skills" may not be a problem.  I think you should try it!  Go for it! Wayne Brasch, CPA, M. S. Taxation

well, thats good to hear, as I have a little more than a working knowledge of computers, been on them since the early 80s, been using peachtree for a few years now, and set up quickbooks a few times also, not much in the way of software that i haven’t used over the years. more comfortable on a computer than anywhere else, i’d have to say, in the last 10 years or so, about an average of 2-3 hours a day on one, somedays a lot more, and no  i don’t play games on it, well some.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello everyone, my questions deals woth weather or not to pursue an accounting career as a CGA, I am 38 haven’t been inside of a school since the mid 80s, some post secondary, not much, several years in management(middle), a very diverse back ground, with middle to low math skills, no formal training, my postion was disolved so now not sure where to go or what to do, last year salary 50g, and would a CGA compare to this wage or better? so is it worth a try or should I look else where? I have 10 years on you and have just taken my plunge into the accounting field this past September when I started a 1.5 year course at an adult education centre. My own background is 25+ years in IT. The course trains attendants for positions a accounting clerks. I’m prepared to initially accept the huge salary cut, because at least initially everyone in accounting starts out at the bottom. Once I have a job I plan on furthering my education on my own time. How far I go with it I have no idea at this point. CGA is certainly one goal, but a very long road for someone who will be almost 50 by the time I get finished with this course I’m in now. I may content myself with obtaining a college level accounting diploma once I start working again… the accounting course can all be taken via distance learning which makes it a little easier than trudging to a classroom one or two nights a week… although you do have to be disciplined to succeed with distance education. I’m starting slow and basically taking it one day at a time. Good luck to you in your attempts to get into accounting!  I believe it is a great environment to be able to get into since much money can be made with such knowledge. Wayne Brasch, CPA, M. S. Taxation

Thanks Wayne.

Response:

hello everyone, my questions deals woth weather or not to pursue an accounting career as a CGA, I am 38 haven’t been inside of a school since the mid 80s, some post secondary, not much, several years in management(middle), a very diverse back ground, with middle to low math skills, no formal training, my postion was disolved so now not sure where to go or what to do, last year salary 50g, and would a CGA compare to this wage or better? so is it worth a try or should I look else where?

I have found that many people can make a lot of money with a knowledge of accounting whether or not they go for some designation (CGA, CPA, etc.).  In my opinion it depends on what you do with the knowledge your get.  You need to be able to sell yourself to a potential employer.  It would be good to have a knowledge of computers to go along with the accounting knowledge since both of these work so closely together.  That way your "low math skills" may not be a problem.  I think you should try it!  Go for it! Wayne Brasch, CPA, M. S. Taxation

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello everyone, my questions deals woth weather or not to pursue an accounting career as a CGA, I am 38 haven’t been inside of a school since the mid 80s, some post secondary, not much, several years in management(middle), a very diverse back ground, with middle to low math skills, no formal training, my postion was disolved so now not sure where to go or what to do, last year salary 50g, and would a CGA compare to this wage or better? so is it worth a try or should I look else where? I have 10 years on you and have just taken my plunge into the accounting field this past September when I started a 1.5 year course at an adult education centre. My own background is 25+ years in IT. The course trains attendants for positions a accounting clerks. I’m prepared to initially accept the huge salary cut, because at least initially everyone in accounting starts out at the bottom. Once I have a job I plan on furthering my education on my own time. How far I go with it I have no idea at this point. CGA is certainly one goal, but a very long road for someone who will be almost 50 by the time I get finished with this course I’m in now. I may content myself with obtaining a college level accounting diploma once I start working again… the accounting course can all be taken via distance learning which makes it a little easier than trudging to a classroom one or two nights a week… although you do have to be disciplined to succeed with distance education. I’m starting slow and basically taking it one day at a time.

Good luck to you in your attempts to get into accounting!  I believe it is a great environment to be able to get into since much money can be made with such knowledge. Wayne Brasch, CPA, M. S. Taxation

Response:

hello everyone, my questions deals woth weather or not to pursue an accounting career as a CGA, I am 38 haven’t been inside of a school since the mid 80s, some post secondary, not much, several years in management(middle), a very diverse back ground, with middle to low math skills, no formal training, my postion was disolved so now not sure where to go or what to do, last year salary 50g, and would a CGA compare to this wage or better? so is it worth a try or should I look else where?

Response:

hello everyone, my questions deals woth weather or not to pursue an accounting career as a CGA, I am 38 haven’t been inside of a school since the mid 80s, some post secondary, not much, several years in management(middle), a very diverse back ground, with middle to low math skills, no formal training, my postion was disolved so now not sure where to go or what to do, last year salary 50g, and would a CGA compare to this wage or better? so is it worth a try or should I look else where?

I have 10 years on you and have just taken my plunge into the accounting field this past September when I started a 1.5 year course at an adult education centre. My own background is 25+ years in IT. The course trains attendants for positions a accounting clerks. I’m prepared to initially accept the huge salary cut, because at least initially everyone in accounting starts out at the bottom. Once I have a job I plan on furthering my education on my own time. How far I go with it I have no idea at this point. CGA is certainly one goal, but a very long road for someone who will be almost 50 by the time I get finished with this course I’m in now. I may content myself with obtaining a college level accounting diploma once I start working again… the accounting course can all be taken via distance learning which makes it a little easier than trudging to a classroom one or two nights a week… although you do have to be disciplined to succeed with distance education. I’m starting slow and basically taking it one day at a time.

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Question:

Andersen  Gets an Early Trial Date, Pleads Not Guilty to Obstruction By RICHARD B. SCHMITT Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL <snip Samuel Buell, an assistant U.S. attorney and member of the Justice Department trial team investigating alleged Enron-related crimes, argued for more time, given the complexities of the case. Federal law entitles defendants to a trial within 70 days; while most defendants waive the right, Andersen  didn’t. Mr. Buell denied that the government was the source of the auditor’s ills. "Arthur Andersen urged the government to speedily investigate this crime. We were urged to give Arthur Andersen a clean bill of health. … We complied with that request. Unfortunately for Arthur Andersen , it didn’t reach the result they were hoping for." A conviction carries a possible $500,000 fine, and five years’ probation. <snip http://online.wsj.com/article/0,4286,SB1016643691573923560-andersen,0… (subscription only) I find the above VERY interesting.  It appears that Andersen may have forced this crisis itself by refusing to give the government adequate time to investigate.   Incidentally, it appears the maximum possible fine is only $500,000 and five years probation. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA   http://survivalworks.com

Response:

Incidentally, it appears the maximum possible fine is only $500,000 and five years probation.

If that were applied, would it be applied: a) To certain partners, who would almost see their careers end due to    all the ill effects of likely-felony-conviction? b) To _all_ AA partners? c) Meted out across the partners, so that each partner would owe $10K    and have to be on probation for 8 days?  (Assuming ~50 partners,    which might be off…) After all, if they called up looking to put "Arthur Andersen" in jail for parole violation, that wouldn’t clearly be a natural person capable of being confined in jail… — http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/spreadsheets.html I can see clearly now, the brain is gone…

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If that were applied, would it be applied:

Probably to the firm at large.  While it cannot be jailed, an LLP can be put on probation and further prosecuted later. Much of the commentary regarding this matter has been by people who have their noses so close to the bark that all they can see are the beetles.   For the sake of discussion, let us back away to where we can see the forest, along with the mountains and the sky. When I do that I see one of the dumbest political confrontations I’ve ever seen.  A bunch of trespassing slick lawyers (AA) handed a range riding Texas cowboy (George W.) a loaded shotgun (destruction of documents) and dared him to shoot (indict).  George may not be the trickiest guy in the corral, but he certainly can shoot, and he did. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA   http://survivalworks.com

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Incidentally, it appears the maximum possible fine is only $500,000 and five years probation. If that were applied, would it be applied:

The real penalty is that the SEC won’t accept auditor’s reports from a convicted felon. Regards, Bill

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If that were applied, would it be applied: Probably to the firm at large. While it cannot be jailed, an LLP can be put on probation and further prosecuted later. Much of the commentary regarding this matter has been by people who have their noses so close to the bark that all they can see are the beetles. For the sake of discussion, let us back away to where we can see the forest, along with the mountains and the sky. When I do that I see one of the dumbest political confrontations I’ve ever seen. A bunch of trespassing slick lawyers (AA) handed a range riding Texas cowboy (George W.) a loaded shotgun (destruction of documents) and dared him to shoot (indict). George may not be the trickiest guy in the corral, but he certainly can shoot, and he did.

GWB, in apparent contrast to the USofA, has a low popularity rating in Europe generally. But if he scrupulously observes the rule of law in dealing with his countries enemies and rigorously cleans up the public accounting and reporting cesspools, his rating here might well increase dramatically. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete it and inform the sender. PGP key fingerprint=F1C0 D9AE 1B18 1405 4DFA  B4CC 6DC7 FF78 C76E FB15 To Big Brother Echelon from "spook": bomb FBI Noriega Kabul Kennedy spy PLO SDI Bin Ladin sentiero Qaddafi

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Politically, that’s is probably a pretty smart move on his part.

… GWB, in apparent contrast to the USofA, has a low popularity rating in Europe generally.

… — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

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GWB, in apparent contrast to the USofA, has a low popularity rating in Europe generally. But if he scrupulously observes the rule of law in dealing with his countries enemies and rigorously cleans up the public accounting and reporting cesspools, his rating here might well increase dramatically.

Last time I looked he was hugely popular here, and this action will certainly not hurt him any. I very much doubt that the executive crowd has any idea how much "white collar" crime is resented by the "blue collar" crowd (at least in the USA), and there are a lot more "blue collar" folks in this country than "white collar". This train has just started to roll. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA   http://survivalworks.com

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Perhaps that is the legal penalty, but the State of New Jersey Casino Control authorities are already proceeding to ask the New Jersey casinos audited by AA to appoint other auditors based on the fact that the INDICTMENT creates a presumption of guilt.  Since most of those companies also have operations in Nevada, that means that the INDICTMENT may cost AA the casino industry. Then there is the possibility hinted at in newsgroup postings that an SEC rule [which I have not yet looked for] would preclude convicted felons from signing opinions in SEC filings. if so, there goes the AA public company audit business. That doesn’t leave much of a practice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Andersen  Gets an Early Trial Date, Pleads Not Guilty to Obstruction <snip http://online.wsj.com/article/0,4286,SB1016643691573923560-andersen,0… (subscription only) Incidentally, it appears the maximum possible fine is only $500,000 and five years probation.

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Incidentally, it appears the maximum possible fine is only $500,000 and five years probation.

I heard on the news that, prior to the indictment, Arthur Andersen offered to pay a 500 MILLION dollar settlement to be used to help the ENRON shareholders who lost their investment.  If the government had taken them up on the offer, it would have collected 1000 times the $500,000 maximum possible fine.

Response:

Incidentally, it appears the maximum possible fine is only $500,000 and five years probation. I heard on the news that, prior to the indictment, Arthur Andersen offered to pay a 500 MILLION dollar settlement to be used to help the ENRON shareholders who lost their investment.  If the government had taken them up on the offer, it would have collected 1000 times the $500,000 maximum possible fine.

Are you thinking about the $750 million (since reduced to $250 million) Andersen offered directly to the plaintiffs in civil actions? Regards, Bill

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That doesn’t leave much of a practice.

Maybe they’ll end up competition for Block and Hewitt and the e-file / RAL crowd. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens,  Georgia http://www.pat-cpa.com

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Incidentally, it appears the maximum possible fine is only $500,000 and five years probation. I heard on the news that, prior to the indictment, Arthur Andersen offered to pay a 500 MILLION dollar settlement to be used to help the ENRON shareholders who lost their investment.  If the government had taken them up on the offer, it would have collected 1000 times the $500,000 maximum possible fine.

The "payout" from Andersen is not the point of either the indictment or my post.   Also, maximizing restitution is obviously not a top priority of government, nor, in my opinion, should it be.   The top priority of government appears to be cleansing the market, which in my opinion is what it should be. In the eyes of the law Andersen is innocent until proven guilty.  Buyers in the marketplace are under no such constraint.  Buyers are entitled to make their choices based on whatever criteria they wish to use.  If buyers do not want to buy from an indicted firm, so be it.  That should not be a concern of government.  If there is just reason for the indictment it should be served, regardless of the consequences in the marketplace. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA   http://survivalworks.com

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But innocent until proven guilty should be the rule…other government agencies should NOT be able to ask clients to switch auditors based on a ‘presumption of guilt’ caused by simply being indicted.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Incidentally, it appears the maximum possible fine is only $500,000 and five years probation. I heard on the news that, prior to the indictment, Arthur Andersen offered to pay a 500 MILLION dollar settlement to be used to help the ENRON shareholders who lost their investment.  If the government had taken them up on the offer, it would have collected 1000 times the $500,000 maximum possible fine. The "payout" from Andersen is not the point of either the indictment or my post. Also, maximizing restitution is obviously not a top priority of government, nor, in my opinion, should it be. The top priority of government appears to be cleansing the market, which in my opinion is what it should be. In the eyes of the law Andersen is innocent until proven guilty.  Buyers in the marketplace are under no such constraint.  Buyers are entitled to make their choices based on whatever criteria they wish to use.  If buyers do not want to buy from an indicted firm, so be it.  That should not be a concern of government.  If there is just reason for the indictment it should be served, regardless of the consequences in the marketplace. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com

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If buyers do not want to buy from an indicted firm, so be it.  That should not be a concern of government.  If there is just reason for the indictment it should be served, regardless of the consequences in the marketplace

Yeah, but their is no just reason for the indictment. The only significant effect of the indictment is to ensure the destuction of Andesen LLP. Now, do i think andesen was corrupt? Yes, in the same way all of the Big 5 have corrupted themselves. However,do I think that thousands of Andesen employees should be put out on the street in a bad employment market because some goofs decided to shred documents, which may or may not have been evidence of Enron misdeeds? Sorry, i’m not that callous. The first act of the DOJ should not be to kill Andesen. The government can’t be wasting time prosecuting LLP’s that can’t offer evidence, while the real bad guys (Fastow, Skilling Lay, et. al.) who casued all this mess, hide safely behind their lawyers in their retreats on San Padre Island. Worse than wasting time, the government is makig things worse by ensuring no chance for restitution, and ensuring unemployment for thousands of innocents who might have employed at a much smaller Andesen. The government is putting the pain on the wrong folks – but then again, these are some of the same legal geniuses that procecuted Whitewater.

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But innocent until proven guilty should be the rule…other government agencies should NOT be able to ask clients to switch auditors based on a ‘presumption of guilt’ caused by simply being indicted.

I don’t agree at all.  Government is part of the consumption circle.  As a consumer, they have that right just as any private consumer does.  And, if they want to limit the audit pool that their "clients" are required to use, so be it. — Paul A. Thomas, CPA Athens,  Georgia http://www.pat-cpa.com

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But innocent until proven guilty should be the rule…other government agencies should NOT be able to ask clients to switch auditors based on a ‘presumption of guilt’ caused by simply being indicted.

I agree.  That is the problem, however, and not the indictment itself.  As best I can determine, the indictment itself is highly in order. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA   http://survivalworks.com

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If buyers do not want to buy from an indicted firm, so be it.  That should not be a concern of government.  If there is just reason for the indictment it should be served, regardless of the consequences in the marketplace Yeah, but their is no just reason for the indictment.

I strongly disagree.  Also, later in this post, you disagree ("andersen was corrupt"). The only significant effect of the indictment is to ensure the destuction of Andesen LLP.

Not so.  The really significant effect is to put the entire "industry" on notice that internal corruption can have very powerful adverse results, as Ed Zollars points out in another post here today. Sorry, i’m not that callous.

I am that callous, and more, though possibly not as much as Paul Thomas.   Reasonable people can disagree on these matters. The first act of the DOJ should not be to kill Andesen.

The DOJ is not responsible if Andersen is killed.  The indictment itself does not kill.  It is only the first step on the "walk to justice".   How others (the market) react very well might kill Andersen.  Andersen should have been thinking about that when they developed their documents retention policy.  Andersen brought this on itself. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA   http://survivalworks.com

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The DOJ is not responsible if Andersen is killed.  The indictment itself does not kill.  It is only the first step on the "walk to justice". How others (the market) react very well might kill Andersen. Andersen should have been thinking about that when they developed their documents retention policy.  Andersen brought this on itself.

What would not be good is if this "kills AA" and, by doing so, _benefits_ others that may be only marginally less guilty (albeit not standing accused). Consider that there’s some degree of "continuum" involved:  - There are doubtless partners across the industry taking aggressive    stances that are deserving of this censure.  Some at AA, likely    others elsewhere too.  - There are also doubtless partners that _aren’t_ deserving of such    censure.  Some in AA, others elsewhere. If AA gets "killed," everyone at AA, directly deserving of censure or not, gets injured.  Those at other firms that are deserving of censure aren’t touched. The problem comes if one guilty party gets "butchered" whilst others stand by and maybe even set up a barbeque to enjoy the spoils. That doesn’t mean "AA shouldn’t be pursued;" it _does_ mean that legal pursuit of AA doesn’t forcibly improve things. — http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/internet.html Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students.

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How others (the market) react very well might kill Andersen.  Andersen should have been thinking about that when they developed their documents retention policy.  Andersen brought this on itself.

A minor disagreement here.  The document retention policy itself likely is fine.  However, what someone did was allow its misuse to be used as a cover to get rid of documents when it became apparent that those documents might be used against either that person or Andersen as a whole.  Had the policy actually been followed religiously from day one there wouldn’t be an issue here–the problem is that the policy only became "priority one" once there appeared to be a potential problem. For purposes of learning, let us assume that Andersen as a whole truly didn’t design the policy solely to hide wrongdoing (we can argue that point later and I’m not tipping my hand on how I’d feel on that one <grin). Given that sympathetic view of Andersen, there was still a real problem: the policy clearly *could* be used in an abusive fashion and if, in fact, the policy wasn’t being followed religiously in their offices it was worse than useless (as Enron proved). That is, if you have this policy you have to follow it on *every* client and *every* engagement.  Because what is fatal is for it to appear that you only selectively pay attention to this rule when it is in your interest for documents to "disappear" but otherwise documents hang around.  If you have any "unethical" employees (and with that many employees you’ll always have a few), you are asking for trouble if you have such a policy that isn’t strictly enforced. From the New York Times article it appears what happened was this: Andersen (at least in Houston) had essentially terminated the staff responsible for destroying documents under the policy as a cost cutting move (ain’t accountants wonderfully short sighted <grin).  This caused unshredded documents to stack up.  When the problems at Enron came to light, at least one attorney at the national office "reminded" the Houston office of Andersen’s document retention policy.  What is not clear is whether she was aware of just how badly Houston had failed in that policy, but what happened at that point was that Duncan organized a major project to get the shredding up to date on the Enron project.

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From the New York Times article it appears what happened was this: Andersen (at least in Houston) had essentially terminated the staff responsible for destroying documents under the policy as a cost cutting move (ain’t accountants wonderfully short sighted <grin). This caused unshredded documents to stack up.  When the problems at Enron came to light, at least one attorney at the national office "reminded" the Houston office of Andersen’s document retention policy.  What is not clear is whether she was aware of just how badly Houston had failed in that policy, but what happened at that point was that Duncan organized a major project to get the shredding up to date on the Enron project.

Oh, my.   So from that perspective, it’s an ordinary enough thing, and I could believe that this is all true. Firms _aren’t_ mandated to keep _all_ the paper around, _forever_, so having a destruction policy seems appropriate. Had they kept the "home fires burning," as it were, there would likely not have been any call for AA’s destruction, at least not on problems-with-document-retention grounds. But suddenly deciding to get the "shredding schedule" back on track, well, there’s a problem… How much do you want to bet that this leads to the other firms getting Very Religious about their document retention policies?  Which does little to prevent overaggresive financial reporting, by the way… — http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/spiritual.html If a logical expression is hard to understand, try transforming it.

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I disagree.  A government entity has a fiduciary responsibility to protect and serve.  If the contractor has the perception of bad, it is the government’s duty to warn away those under it until the matter is cleared up.  Being a shepherd is different than being a judge. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But innocent until proven guilty should be the rule…other government agencies should NOT be able to ask clients to switch auditors based on a ‘presumption of guilt’ caused by simply being indicted. Incidentally, it appears the maximum possible fine is only $500,000 and five years probation. I heard on the news that, prior to the indictment, Arthur Andersen offered to pay a 500 MILLION dollar settlement to be used to help the ENRON shareholders who lost their investment.  If the government had taken them up on the offer, it would have collected 1000 times the $500,000 maximum possible fine. The "payout" from Andersen is not the point of either the indictment or my post. Also, maximizing restitution is obviously not a top priority of government, nor, in my opinion, should it be. The top priority of government appears to be cleansing the market, which in my opinion is what it should be. In the eyes of the law Andersen is innocent until proven guilty.  Buyers in the marketplace are under no such constraint.  Buyers are entitled to make their choices based on whatever criteria they wish to use.  If buyers do not want to buy from an indicted firm, so be it.  That should not be a concern of government.  If there is just reason for the indictment it should be served, regardless of the consequences in the marketplace. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

Clarification.  Whitewater only determined that the Independent Prosecutor could not assemble enough evidence to, IN HIS OPINION, get an indictment.  Therefore, Whitewater wasn’t prosecuted. From what has shown up in the press, IMHO, there is ample evidence to indict Andersen, DOJ already has one indictment.  They have already convinced a Grand Jury that they have a prosecutable case. Remember, under our legal system, the prosecutor has to convince a dozen or so disinterested citizens he has a prosecutable case before he can get an indictment.

… innocents who might have employed at a much smaller Andesen. The government is putting the pain on the wrong folks – but then again, these are some of the same legal geniuses that procecuted Whitewater.

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

…  - There are also doubtless partners that _aren’t_ deserving of such    censure.  Some in AA, others elsewhere.

Those with knowledge of the act, who kept silent, are as guilty as those who performed the act.  Doing nothing is not a defense. If AA gets "killed," everyone at AA, directly deserving of censure or not, gets injured.  Those at other firms that are deserving of censure aren’t touched.

I doubt that.  The partners could be ruined financially, and if guilty deserve that.  Everyone else would just go on to other work. As bad as it gets, firms and industry will still give preference hiring to ex big firm employees. — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

IMHO, there is ample evidence to indict Andersen, DOJ already has one indictment.  They have already convinced a Grand Jury that they have a prosecutable case.

Quoting Greta Van Sustren and many other legal pudits, "A decent procecuter can indict a ham sandwich". The government has enormous power to do many things. We have a right to expect they use that power constructively. IMHO, THERE IS NO CONSTRUCTIVE BENEFIT TO INDICTING OR EVEN CONVICTING ANDESEN, THAT OUTWIEGHTS THE HARM CAUSED.   The idea that the "death penalty" is appropriate bacasue some employees abused a document retention policy (a policy that is pretty much standard in the industry" is insane.  Their are better ways of dealing with any alleged criminals at Andesen, up too and including jail time for natural persons. The indictment of the firm is strickly a PR move – and a disgusting one at that..

Response:

There are those who allege that a prosecutor could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Remember, under our legal system, the prosecutor has to convince a dozen or so disinterested citizens he has a prosecutable case before he can get an indictment.

Response:

Question:

I cry about what QuickBooks and Quicken must do to fight for their lives. Both now have 85% of their market at retail. Microsoft quickly folded its TurboTax competitor. Only Intuit monopoly related arrogance (anti-customer policies) and programs like NetLedger may change this. NL has a free Quicken & QuickBooks subset at http://blocktax.com/ NetLedger. I removed your crosspost to grc.optout.  This is a newsgroup for discussing Quicken, not conducting a flamewar because I challenged the stability of members of another newsgroup. Mandatory Quicken content:  Intuit is in a fight for their proverbial life, with Microsoft offering a competing product.  I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if they employed some aggressive marketing tactics, can you blame them?  Luckily for them, Microsoft Money isn’t quite on par with Quicken, yet.  If Intuit’s survival was my responsibility, I’d be looking for every trick I could find.

  Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A.  World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester FREE NetLedger consult refer #10260   FREE 462p QB book/error codes/ 80 QB add-ons http://blocktax.com/

Response:

15,000 NetLedger customers and countless other webledger users and security specialists know webledger files are up to a million times safer than those on our own PCs. We know encryption, split data, internal controls, audits and many controls we could not possibly afford alone insure our security even from NL employees. These are the methods our largest corporations and top secret government agencies use to limit access to those who need-to- know data in their networked and internet files. For 10 years I specialized in Quicken, QuickBooks and TurboTax. I probably was responsible for thousands of their sales. However, when Intuit adopted many anti-customer and Pro Advisor policies they made me organize boycotts, threaten lawsuits and seek alternatives. Earlier this year we attracted national attention and got QB to drop about $40 million in price increases. We also very probably made QB drop required tax tables in the not yet released 2001. http://www.blocktax.com/mar31.htm (CNET article) http://www.blocktax.com/FEB162000.htm Some day soon most of us will use webledgers and other ASPs because they have dramatic price, feature, integration, reliability and security advantages over desktop software. In my opinion, this time will be very soon after NL show us how to very cheaply save most data entry time & increase accuracy , by automating data from other ASPs. They should have this in a few days. Intuit will soon have a big share of this market and may well dominate it. However, so far all reviews have NL as a clear first. Yesterday a PC Magazine writer called to discuss the amazing fact that QB for the Web does not yet import Quicken or QB data, as NL does. NL even gives Quicken users a permanent free trial, which they also do for a QB subset. http://www.blocktax.com/NetLedger.htm This type of student-appealing giveaway is part of what once made IBM and Apple dominant. What NL has not done is pay me a dime. Of course, my Intuit prize winning beta test awards also were far less than $1 an hour. In such cases my reward comes from being able to better serve a rapidly increasing list of clients from around the country and the world. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -You have concerns about Intuit collecting information on you, and requiring registration, yet you’re not concerned about having your bookkeeping data stored on someone’s web server?  Sorry, I fail to see the logic in this, and instead I’m seeing someone promoting an ASP-type service with which he is someway affiliated… I cry about what QuickBooks and Quicken must do to fight for their lives. Both now have 85% of their market at retail. Microsoft quickly folded its TurboTax competitor. Only Intuit monopoly related arrogance (anti-customer policies) and programs like NetLedger may change this. NL has a free Quicken & QuickBooks subset at http://blocktax.com/ NetLedger. I removed your crosspost to grc.optout.  This is a newsgroup for discussing Quicken, not conducting a flamewar because I challenged the stability of members of another newsgroup. Mandatory Quicken content:  Intuit is in a fight for their proverbial life, with Microsoft offering a competing product.  I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if they employed some aggressive marketing tactics, can you blame them?  Luckily for them, Microsoft Money isn’t quite on par with Quicken, yet.  If Intuit’s survival was my responsibility, I’d be looking for every trick I could find.  Mike Block, Tax Fighting C.P.A. World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester FREE NetLedger consult refer #10260  FREE 462p QB book/error codes/ 80 QB add-ons http://blocktax.com/

     Mike Block – Tax Cut CPA   World’s #1 QuickBooks Top Tester     FREE  NetLedger accounting   FREE 462p QB books/error codes 100+ QB add-ons http://blocktax.com/

Response:

Question:

I am interested in becoming an accountant. Could anyone tell me what the education requirements are to become an accountant. I need to sign up for classes soon, and any info would be extremely helpful. Thank you for your time.                                     Mike Register

Response:

I am interested in becoming an accountant. Could anyone tell me what the education requirements are to become an accountant.

Depends on your location.  The requirements vary from location to location.  You might want to talk to your school’s guidance counselor. If you’re in the U.S., you might want to consider engineering.  I think you would find it takes the same educational investment as professional accounting and the pay back will be much better. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -snip<

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in becoming an accountant. Could anyone tell me what the education requirements are to become an accountant. Depends on your location.  The requirements vary from location to location.  You might want to talk to your school’s guidance counselor. If you’re in the U.S., you might want to consider engineering.  I think you would find it takes the same educational investment as professional accounting and the pay back will be much better. snip< I just finished my qualification her in England. All you need to get on to a foundation course is 4 GCSE’s at C or better/ or equivilent. I would suggest doing the GCSE Accounting first as it goes in to more detail than a foundation or intermediate AAT as the GCSE is more manual bookkeeping and the AAT is on computers.

Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Before you do anything, faithful, you may want to read Statement of Finanical Standards #4 on loss contingencies, especially paragraphs 24 to 26.

Response:

Thanks for the information.  I decided to start with a 2% accrual.  I will watch it from here. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hi, I thik its in US accounting Standards Peter

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What would be the standard calculation for a warranty accrual on a new product?  We do not have any information on actual warranty costs for this product or related products. Thanks * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

    You will have to pic a rate, say 2 or 4%.  Then when actual charges come in, you will will have to monitor if you are over or under accrued periodically.  Overtime, you will be able to develope an actual rate you can hang your hat on.  However, there will be times when there is a recall on products that you just couldn’t be aware of.  In such cases, you would be intantly under accrued until the accrual cought up with itself or you increased the rate to absorb that cost.     We do this with allowance for bad debt. 99% we are over accrued.  But, if management write-off a bunch, then we are short until the accrual catches itself.up.  Then we let it build back up.  Some months, we do not even write the entry because we would be too far over.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What would be the standard calculation for a warranty accrual on a new product?  We do not have any information on actual warranty costs for this product or related products. Thanks * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

What would be the standard calculation for a warranty accrual on a new product?  We do not have any information on actual warranty costs for this product or related products. Thanks * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Question:

This is a test

Response:

Hey test this

Response:

Hey test this

Wow. I never knew accountants were so witty. Rich C.

Response:

I found this on a bulletin board and decided to try it. A little while back, I was browsing through bulletin boards, just like you are now, and came across an article similar to this that said you could make thousands of dollars WITHIN WEEKS with only an initial investment of $6.00(US)! So I thought, "Yeah right, this must be a scam", but like most of us, I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that you send $1.00 to each of the 6 names and address stated in the article. You then place your own name and address in the bottom of the list at #6, and post the article in at least 200 newsgroups. (There are thousands) No catch, that was it.    So after thinking it over, and talking to a few people first, I thought about trying it. I figured: "What have I got to lose except 6 stamps and $6.00(US), right?"  Then I invested the measly $6.00.  Well GUESS WHAT!?… Within 7 days, I started getting money in the mail! I was shocked! I figured it would end soon, but the money just kept coming in. In my first week, I made about $25.00(US). By the end of the second week, I had made a total of over $1,100.00(US)! In the third week I had over $8,750.00 and it’s still growing. This is now my fourth week and I have made a total of just over $17,000.00 and it’s still coming in rapidly. It’s certainly worth $6.00, and 6 stamps, I have spent more than that on the lottery!! Let me tell you how this works and most importantly, WHY it works… Also, make sure you print a copy of this article NOW, so you can get the information off of it as you need it. I promise you that if you follow the directions exactly, that you will start making more money than you thought possible by doing something so easy! KEEP READING TO FIND OUT HOW THIS WORKS!!! Suggestion: Read this entire message carefully! (Print it out or download it.) Follow the simple directions and watch the money come in! It’s easy. It’s legal. And, your investment is only $6.00 (Plus postage on only 6 envelopes…one time only…no repeat mailing) IMPORTANT: This is not a rip-off; it is not indecent; No Misleading promises or claims; it is not illegal; and it is 99% no risk – it really works! If all of the following instructions are adhered to, you will receive extraordinary dividends. JUST KEEP READING!!! PLEASE NOTE: Please follow these directions EXACTLY, and $50,000 or more can be yours in 20 to 60 days. This program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants. Please continue its success by carefully adhering to the instructions. You will now become part of the Mail Order business. In this business your product is not solid and tangible, it’s a service. You are in the business of developing Mailing Lists. Many large corporations are happy to pay big bucks for quality lists. However, the money made from the mailing lists is secondary to the income which is made from people like you and me asking to be included in that list. Here are the 4 easy steps to success:    STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST." Now get 6 US $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not be seen through the envelope (to prevent thievery). Next, place one paper in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase, your name and address, and a $1.00 bill. What you are doing is creating a service. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! You are requesting a legitimate service and you are paying for it! Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal.    Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses: #1) Joseph Ng 10606 Truro Dr. Richmond, British Columbia V7E 5B4 #2) Lourdes DaSilva 140 The Esplande Apt 605 Toronto, Ontario M5A 4P5 #3) Jordan Drucker 8 Brook Ln. Brookville, NY 11545 #4) D. Rose 2765 Matthews Ave. Apt #1C Bronx, NY 10467 #5) M. Hooper 26670 Loganberry Dr. #A209 Richmond Hts, OH 44143 #6) K. Abdul-Quddus 113 East 13th Street Apt. 6H New York, New York 10003    STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc…) and add YOUR Name as number 6 on the list. STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to at least 200 newsgroups. (I think there are close to 24,000 groups) All you need is 200, but remember, the more you post, and the more money you make! You won’t get very much unless you post like crazy. This is perfectly legal! If you have any doubts, refer to Title 18 Sec. 1302 & 1341 of the Postal lottery laws. Keep a copy of these steps for yourself and, whenever you need money, you can use it again, and again. PLEASE REMEMBER that this program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants and by their carefully adhering to the directions. Look at it this way. If you are of integrity, the program will continue and the money that so many others have received will come your way. NOTE: You may want to retain every name and address sent to you, either on a computer or hard copy and keep the notes people send you. This VERIFIES that you are truly providing a service. (Also, it might be a good idea to wrap the $1 bill in dark paper to reduce the risk of mail theft.) So, as each post is downloaded and the directions carefully followed, six members will be reimbursed for their participation as a List Developer with one dollar each. Your name will move up the list geometrically so that when your name reaches the #1 position you will be receiving thousands of dollars in CASH!!! What an opportunity for only $6.00 ($1.00 for each of the first six people listed above) Send it now, add your own name to the list and you’re in business! Step 1) You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own posting. Simply put your cursor at the beginning of this letter and drag your cursor to the bottom of this document, and select ‘copy’ from the edit menu. This will copy the entire letter into the computer’s memory. Step 2) Open a blank ‘notepad’ file and place your cursor at the top of the blank page. From the ‘edit’ menu select ‘paste’. This will paste a copy of the letter into notepad so that you can add your name to the list. Step 3) Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do your postings in different settings, you’ll always have this file to go back to. Step 4) Use Netscape or Internet explorer and try searching for various newsgroups (on-line forums, message boards, chat sites, discussions.) Step 5) Visit these message boards and post this article as a new message by highlighting the text of this letter and selecting paste from the edit menu. Fill in the Subject, this will be the header that everyone sees as they scroll through the list of postings in a particular group, click the post message button. You’re done with your first one! Congratulations…THAT’S IT! All you have to do is jump to different newsgroups and post away, after you get the hang of it, and it will take about 30 seconds for each newsgroup! **REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200** That’s it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within days! You may eventually want to rent a P.O. Box due to the large amount of mail you will receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. **JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.** HERE’S HOW $6.00 DOLLARS TURNS INTO THOUSANDS!! Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example). So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, each with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the original 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM posts with my name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200 with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make an additional $625.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625 persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they each only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00!!! Those 3,125 persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at #1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive $15,625,00! With an original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to names on the list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. The thing to remember is: do you realize that thousands of people all over the world are joining the Internet and reading these articles everyday?, JUST LIKE YOU are now!! So, can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works?? I think so… People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends you the money? So what! What are the chances of that happening when there are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining the internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try? Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, every day, with thousands of those joining the actual Internet. Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will really work. GOOD LUCK!!!

Response:

Yeah… pull the other one! — Ken Russell Sydney

I found this on a bulletin board and decided to try it. A little while back, I was browsing through bulletin boards, just like you are now, and came across an article similar to this that said you could make thousands of dollars WITHIN WEEKS with only an initial investment of $6.00(US)! So I thought, "Yeah right, this must be a scam", but like most of us, I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that you send $1.00 to each of the 6 names and address stated in the article. You then place your own name and address in the bottom of the list at #6, and post the article in at least 200 newsgroups. (There are thousands) No catch, that was it.    So after thinking it over, and talking to a few people first, I thought about trying it. I figured: "What have I got to lose except 6 stamps and $6.00(US), right?"  Then I invested the measly $6.00.  Well GUESS WHAT!?… Within 7 days, I started getting money in the mail! I was shocked! I figured it would end soon, but the money just kept coming in. In my first week, I made about $25.00(US). By the end of the second week, I had made a total of over $1,100.00(US)! In the third week I had over $8,750.00 and it’s still growing. This is now my fourth week and I have made a total of just over $17,000.00 and it’s still coming in rapidly. It’s certainly worth $6.00, and 6 stamps, I have spent more than that on the lottery!! Let me tell you how this works and most importantly, WHY it works… Also, make sure you print a copy of this article NOW, so you can get the information off of it as you need it. I promise you that if you follow the directions exactly, that you will start making more money than you thought possible by doing something so easy! KEEP READING TO FIND OUT HOW THIS WORKS!!! Suggestion: Read this entire message carefully! (Print it out or download it.) Follow the simple directions and watch the money come in! It’s easy. It’s legal. And, your investment is only $6.00 (Plus postage on only 6 envelopes…one time only…no repeat mailing) IMPORTANT: This is not a rip-off; it is not indecent; No Misleading promises or claims; it is not illegal; and it is 99% no risk – it really works! If all of the following instructions are adhered to, you will receive extraordinary dividends. JUST KEEP READING!!! PLEASE NOTE: Please follow these directions EXACTLY, and $50,000 or more can be yours in 20 to 60 days. This program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants. Please continue its success by carefully adhering to the instructions. You will now become part of the Mail Order business. In this business your product is not solid and tangible, it’s a service. You are in the business of developing Mailing Lists. Many large corporations are happy to pay big bucks for quality lists. However, the money made from the mailing lists is secondary to the income which is made from people like you and me asking to be included in that list. Here are the 4 easy steps to success:    STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST." Now get 6 US $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not be seen through the envelope (to prevent thievery). Next, place one paper in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase, your name and address, and a $1.00 bill. What you are doing is creating a service. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! You are requesting a legitimate service and you are paying for it! Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal.    Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses: #1) Joseph Ng 10606 Truro Dr. Richmond, British Columbia V7E 5B4 #2) Lourdes DaSilva 140 The Esplande Apt 605 Toronto, Ontario M5A 4P5 #3) Jordan Drucker 8 Brook Ln. Brookville, NY 11545 #4) D. Rose 2765 Matthews Ave. Apt #1C Bronx, NY 10467 #5) M. Hooper 26670 Loganberry Dr. #A209 Richmond Hts, OH 44143 #6) K. Abdul-Quddus 113 East 13th Street Apt. 6H New York, New York 10003    STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc…) and add YOUR Name as number 6 on the list. STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to at least 200 newsgroups. (I think there are close to 24,000 groups) All you need is 200, but remember, the more you post, and the more money you make! You won’t get very much unless you post like crazy. This is perfectly legal! If you have any doubts, refer to Title 18 Sec. 1302 & 1341 of the Postal lottery laws. Keep a copy of these steps for yourself and, whenever you need money, you can use it again, and again. PLEASE REMEMBER that this program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants and by their carefully adhering to the directions. Look at it this way. If you are of integrity, the program will continue and the money that so many others have received will come your way. NOTE: You may want to retain every name and address sent to you, either on a computer or hard copy and keep the notes people send you. This VERIFIES that you are truly providing a service. (Also, it might be a good idea to wrap the $1 bill in dark paper to reduce the risk of mail theft.) So, as each post is downloaded and the directions carefully followed, six members will be reimbursed for their participation as a List Developer with one dollar each. Your name will move up the list geometrically so that when your name reaches the #1 position you will be receiving thousands of dollars in CASH!!! What an opportunity for only $6.00 ($1.00 for each of the first six people listed above) Send it now, add your own name to the list and you’re in business! Step 1) You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own posting. Simply put your cursor at the beginning of this letter and drag your cursor to the bottom of this document, and select ‘copy’ from the edit menu. This will copy the entire letter into the computer’s memory. Step 2) Open a blank ‘notepad’ file and place your cursor at the top of the blank page. From the ‘edit’ menu select ‘paste’. This will paste a copy of the letter into notepad so that you can add your name to the list. Step 3) Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do your postings in different settings, you’ll always have this file to go back to. Step 4) Use Netscape or Internet explorer and try searching for various newsgroups (on-line forums, message boards, chat sites, discussions.) Step 5) Visit these message boards and post this article as a new message by highlighting the text of this letter and selecting paste from the edit menu. Fill in the Subject, this will be the header that everyone sees as they scroll through the list of postings in a particular group, click the post message button. You’re done with your first one! Congratulations…THAT’S IT! All you have to do is jump to different newsgroups and post away, after you get the hang of it, and it will take about 30 seconds for each newsgroup! **REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200** That’s it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within days! You may eventually want to rent a P.O. Box due to the large amount of mail you will receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. **JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.** HERE’S HOW $6.00 DOLLARS TURNS INTO THOUSANDS!! Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example). So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, each with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the original 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM posts with my name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200 with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make an additional $625.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625 persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they each only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00!!! Those 3,125 persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at #1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive $15,625,00! With an original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to names on the list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. The thing to remember is: do you realize that thousands of people all over the world are joining the Internet and reading these articles everyday?, JUST LIKE YOU are now!! So, can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works?? I think so… People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends you the money? So what! What are the chances of that happening when there are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining the internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try? Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, every day, with thousands of those joining the actual Internet. Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will really work. GOOD LUCK!!!

Response:

Test Post

Response:

– Matt Heason Editor www.climbuk.com

Response:

Please ignore, testing client.

Response:

I am testing my new news account.

Response:

test – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am testing my new news account.

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The test failed "It took us 15 years to McGyver this thing." To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from my e-mail address.     —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

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Sorry Thanks, Bob

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This is test, sorry !

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry Thanks, Bob

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Question:

Okay, I’ve decided to go back to school, which is probably going to happen next fall, and at this point, I don’t have time to go full time, so I’ll just be taking a few basic classes.  I was wondering some things about people and their careers: What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have? What made you choose this career? What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my helping others, etc) How do you feel your career impacts others?   What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your career? Tamara

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In article <MPG.10fb0ebbc679146f989…@news.mindspring.com>, bo…@mindsprng.com (TYounger) wrote: > Okay, I’ve decided to go back to school, which is probably going to > happen next fall, and at this point,

Good for you. It shows ambition. > What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have?

My career was in elementary education. I was a master teacher in two grades, a middle school vice principal, and for 21+ years an elementary school principal. I was responsible for the whole operation; everything that happened at my school, including academics, the cafeteria, even the student behavior on the bus and at the bus stops. I supervised all teachers, special service personnel ( speach teachers, E.H. teachers, school psychologists, custodians, food service workers, etc)  I was responsible for school-community relations and for working with parents. > What made you choose this career?

I couldn’t find a job in what used to be called Industrial Psychology, which was my major. I was already a grad, so I used my GI Bill to pick up the credits I needed for elementary teaching. I friend was doing student teaching and told me how neat it was, so I thought I’d try it. I intended, however, to be a high school English teacher, but went into elementary ed because I could start working sooner. > What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my > helping others, etc)

I got a tremendous sense of satisfaction out of affecting many lives in a positive way – students, parents and teachers. I feel I left an impact on the society of my schools. > How do you feel your career impacts others?  

I’m told that it impacted many people in very positive ways. After I took an early retirement I worked in university for 10 years and have been told the same thing there. I still have students who contact me and keep in touch. It is a very gratifying feeling. > What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your > career?

The very  highest would be the lives of students I turned around, and the teachers who said I opened their minds too. The lowest would be the pressure of a job with impossible demands upon it. The paperwork and the meetings were terrible. Having all the responsibility placed on me by the district ofice without an appropriate amount of authority to "make it happen" set up cycle after cycle of frustration. Parents and children are getting harder and harder to work with. Many administrators in my district were on blood pressure meds and one had a bleeding ulcer.  It’s a damn shame education has deteriated to that.

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TYounger wrote in message … >Okay, I’ve decided to go back to school, which is probably going to >happen next fall, and at this point, I don’t have time to go full time, >so I’ll just be taking a few basic classes.  I was wondering some things >about people and their careers: >What is your career?

ISIS:  restaurant manager.  What responsibilities do you have? ISIS: Running a clean, customer service oriented restaurant according to company procedure and standard every hour (except from 12a.m. to 4a.m. when it is closed) of every day (even when I am off).  Aside from that, I am responsible for every action and repurcussion of 50 other individuals. >What made you choose this career?

ISIS: It’s what I started with to get extra money in college.  Then I met my (now ex) husband.  He was the restaurant manager…and it was only natural for me to learn the business to help him.  I didn’t use my college experience to find a career because in working with him we could make between 60K and 70K a year, which was good for a young couple back then.  I am still in it now because it is "in my blood" (been in it for 12 years)…and I make a nice living from it.                                 ISIS >What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my >helping others, etc)

ISIS: 1) Money 2) Freedom of movement (boss never bothers me.  I’m pretty much on my own. The owner offers his managers "ownership" of the restaurant, which means that we can do what we want to within a certain limit to generate customers, which generates BONUS$$$ > 3)Dealing with this level of people, I can effect a lot of advancement and personal growth with them…I have shown people what it means to succeed, teamwork, pride in doing the job right the first time, compassion for others, etc., etc., etc..  I am teaching them the restaurant business…and a whole lot more.  It’s very rewarding most of the time.  Some of my employees from my previous store ( I recently moved to a brand new store to train managers) email me and tell me how they are using what I "gave" them to get along both in the old store and in their lives.  It’s nothing to "shake a stick at".  BUT….you gotta’ love it….or you gotta’ leave it. There’s no middle out here. >How do you feel your career impacts others?

ISIS:  OOPS.  I got ahead of myself and answered that one ^ up there. >What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your >career?

ISIS:  Opening this new store…after having such a well-trained management team and crew…and a routine…to going into a situation where I’m the only one that has a clue.  MAN….I thought it was going to break my mind!  LOL THE HIGHEST POINT was when I took over my old restaurant and worked for 18 months to bring it to never before seen levels of profit and gained a "Superior" rating from the corporation, after everyone said it could never be done in a tourist driven store.                     ISIS I hope at the very least you have found this post to be amusing and informative.  Like I said, service work is only for those that have a LOT of patience.  Not everyone can do it.                         Best of luck with you school and career choice.  Let us know what you decide.  :)                                 ISIS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Tamara

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>I think that trained, skilled counselors make a huge difference, for >both the victim, and the prosecution.

"Huge" doesn’t begin to describe it.  A victim of a sexual assault (who reports it and seeks medical attention) is immediately "rewarded" with a system that tends to be highly impersonal, and can compound the trauma of the assault itself without supports such as you provide. >Yup.  The sexual assault cases aren’t as tough on me as the *children’s* >SA cases.

Only because you have the perspective of an adult.  You know what that child will be dealing with for the rest of their lives. >Safer that way.  I once had a guy come to our shelter (its address is >well known), carrying a gun & gun clip, asking for me by name.  Talk >about Heebie-Jeebies!

We actually had a murder outside a local nonprofit "open" agency called "Common Ground" that offered its facilities for transferring the child from one parent to another ("neutral territory") or for supervised visits.  A father, after dropping off his daughter, lay in wait for the mother when she came to pick up the daughter.  The father approached her as she pulled out of the parking garage and killed both the mother and child. He was later located in San Francisco after taking his own life. -BB

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>>I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really >>needy people, rather than making $75.00 an hour and helping those who cry over >>not being able to afford a person to come and clean their house. >Do you realize how cold an unfeeling this sounds.

Do you know how accurate it is?  "Mainstream" counselors who hang out a shingle refer to their clients (in inside circles) as "the worried well". It gets difficult to sympathize with people who express common, general, ordinary life pecadillos as if they were major life crises.  The reality is that there are people out there with REAL problems.  Brain damage.  Missing limbs.  Our friend IICCEE69 with the husband tossing her around the room As Oceanmomma observes, however, dealing with REAL problems isn’t where the money is–it’s sitting calmly listening to the whinings of the "worried well". >Because some have achieved >financial success does not disqualify them from emotional pain.

I think perhaps you mistook the point of her post, Urf. >Perhaps you >should examine your own qualifications as a "counselor" to see how your >prejudices have kept you from having both financial and emotional reward from >your work.

Out of Bounds.  Ill-informed.  Mean spirited. -BB

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  oceanmo…@aol.com (Oceanmomma) wrote: > >From: frogett…@hotmail.com > >Any chance of your going back to school to get the credentials that would > >make > >the difference?  Possibly getting partial credit for your work experience? > The sad part, is that even having the credentials does not guarantee a job that > pays well.  I have the BA, MA and counselor titles…however, I work for a > social service agency and the pay is horrible.  But in the deepest part of my > heart…I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really > needy people,

I’m studying for that MA and the title now myself, and I went into it knowing that it would quite possibly pay me less than the last job I had, as a high- priced clerk.  Because it is what turned out to be my deepest wish, after I spent many years figuring out what I wanted to be when I grew up. What I saw in Kimberlee’s post was a desire to keep being of service, and the question of whether she could keep doing that if she left her present job. The paper credentials DO open some of those doors. evitsky ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

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>From: Kimberlee >I’m actually thinking of law school, with a focus on family & immigrant >law.  YEARS later…I may be able to do what I want…but of course, >gotta’ pay those school loans!

Cool!  (not the school loan part).   I have been paying back twenty thousand dollars in loans  for the last 5 years.  That is not including the books that I charged on my Visa card…approximately 500 dollars a semester…4 semesters. I did this all as a single parent which is why everything was charged or loaned.  It was terribly hard at the time…but I am so incredibly happy that I attained a goal that was long in my mind.  I swore that by age 40, I would have a MA.   One month after I received my degree…I celebrated my 40th birthday. Attaining this goal was far more important to me than anything that money could buy.

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>I’m a legal advocate for battered women.  I am a one-person program; I >work with between 100 and 200 women a month.  I provide information >about domestic violence, safety planning, the court system, custody and >divorce issues.  I am a sexual assault counselor; I respond to the >hospital when someone is sexually assaulted.

A terrific service you provide.  I’ve used sexual assault counselors/advocates when I’ve had clients who’d been assaulted. Tough stuff to deal with. I’ve also been involved with the somewhat "cloak and dagger" process of sheltering.  Helped one client get to a local shelter (DAWN-Domestic Abuse Women’s Network, a terrific organization).  They answer the phone "Dawn’s house."  They give no address, list no location and you meet them at a neutral location, which changes.  It’s a good setup, run entirely by women, for women and their children. -BB

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Kimberlee, Any chance of your going back to school to get the credentials that would make the difference?  Possibly getting partial credit for your work experience? evitsky In article <36962CF5.CC3ED…@mosquitonet.com>,   Kimberlee <skip-…@mosquitonet.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have? > I’m a legal advocate for battered women.  I am a one-person program; I > work with between 100 and 200 women a month.  I provide information > about domestic violence, safety planning, the court system, custody and > divorce issues.  I am a sexual assault counselor; I respond to the > hospital when someone is sexually assaulted. > > What made you choose this career? > I am a Christian.  I want to give back to God some of what He has given > me. > > What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my > > helping others, etc) > Definitely not money.  But at the end of every day, I’ve felt that I’ve > done something to help someone else.  And, especially during the > holidays, I am reminded by this when I receive Christmas cards from > women who are doing well now, but who were formerly in very lethal > situations. > > How do you feel your career impacts others? > Pretty significantly.  I am good at what I do, and I love helping other > people. > > What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your > > career? > Right now, I am at my lowest point.  I am thinking of leaving my job > (internal politics got me down).  The job itself is extremely stressful; > I’ve been threatened by abusive men, I’ve been followed around town and > in stores; and it’s exhausting always feeling "on your guard."  The main > responsibility I have is being "right" in the work I do; I can’t afford > to mis-state anything; I can’t cross the line and give legal advice; I > can’t show frustration or allow my own feelings into my work.  And now, > I have to watch my back.  I don’t have the right letters after my name > to get another job in social work which pays as well as this one does, > so I’m considering going back to work as a paralegal for a law firm. > Depending on the type of law, the job could be fulfilling, but not > nearly as fulfilling as social work.  <Sigh> > > Tamara > — > What would a chair look like if your knees bent the other way?

———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

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>From: frogett…@hotmail.com >Kimberlee, >Any chance of your going back to school to get the credentials that would >make >the difference?  Possibly getting partial credit for your work experience? >evitsky

The sad part, is that even having the credentials does not guarantee a job that pays well.  I have the BA, MA and counselor titles…however, I work for a social service agency and the pay is horrible.  But in the deepest part of my heart…I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really needy people, rather than making $75.00 an hour and helping those who cry over not being able to afford a person to come and clean their house.  Yes, everything is relative…but I tend to go for the underdog.  I can relate better.

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>I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really >needy people, rather than making $75.00 an hour and helping those who cry over >not being able to afford a person to come and clean their house.

Do you realize how cold an unfeeling this sounds. Because some have achieved financial success does not disqualify them from emotional pain. Perhaps you should examine your own qualifications as a "counselor" to see how your prejudices have kept you from having both financial and emotional reward from your work. Rich or poo, pain is pain. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Oceanmomma wrote: > >From: frogett…@hotmail.com > >Kimberlee, > >Any chance of your going back to school to get the credentials that would > >make > >the difference?  Possibly getting partial credit for your work experience? > >evitsky > The sad part, is that even having the credentials does not guarantee a job that > pays well.  I have the BA, MA and counselor titles…however, I work for a > social service agency and the pay is horrible.  But in the deepest part of my > heart…I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really > needy people, rather than making $75.00 an hour and helping those who cry over > not being able to afford a person to come and clean their house.  Yes, > everything is relative…but I tend to go for the underdog.  I can relate > better.

Response:

>From: urf <urf…@erols.com> >Do you realize how cold an unfeeling this sounds. Because some have achieved >financial success does not disqualify them from emotional pain. Perhaps you >should examine your own qualifications as a "counselor" to see how your >prejudices have kept you from having both financial and emotional reward from >your work. Rich or poo, pain is pain.

I can see why you have think that the post is cold and unfeeling.  In graduate school, we were forced to look examine our prejudices.  We had courses, papers and exams to take regarding our personal prejudice.  One in particular that stood out for me had something to do with the wealthy (financially wealthy that is).  I have not completely come to terms with it…and admit it.  Rather than pretend to not be biased and work with clients who I have some prejudice with, I have chosen to work with those who I feel that I can help without the bias. It is extremely important to look inward and address issues that one has before working with people.  And Urf…we all have prejudices and biases.  It’s just that not everyone is willing to admit them.  As far as my qualifications…so far…so good )  ….and always improving. I don’t have financial reward in my life yet mostly because I have chosen to stay home and be the person toraise my children.  I never said that rich people don’t have pain…I did say that I go for the underdog.   It is important not to take things out of context.   And yes…pain is pain. And honesty is honesty.

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>I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really >>needy people, rather than making $75.00 an hour and helping those who cry >over >>not being able to afford a person to come and clean their house.

URF responded:>Do you realize how cold an unfeeling this sounds. Because some have achieved >financial success does not disqualify them from emotional pain. Perhaps you >should examine your own qualifications as a "counselor" to see how your >prejudices have kept you from having both financial and emotional reward from >your work. Rich or poo, pain is pain.

Not being able to get domestic  help is pain?  I agree that everything is relative, but this is ridiculous.  My best friend’s sister has got more money than she knows what to do with.  She whines and complains about material things.  She is married to and made two kids with a guy who beat their cat nearly to death because it urinated on the oriental carpet.  He did this in front of the two kids.  She stays with this man because he comes from money. Her whole life is money.  Does she experience pain because of what he did in front of the kids?  Absolutely not.  She’s built a cage in the basement for the cat instead of getting rid of the husband.  When the husband had a heart attack, she didn’t have pain because her husband could die.  All she whined about then was that he was out of work and where would the money come from? I’m not saying that people of means don’t experience pain, but, it has to be realistic for me to feel sorry for them. Toni "Maintaining a complicated life is a great way to avoid changing it"

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Yup; working on it.  Problem is $$$$.  In order to afford to go back to school (and do enough hours to make it short and sweet), I have to work in a field where I’m most experience.  Sigh.  That means law.  I can audit out 15 credit hours…but that still leaves some time in school. I’ve just gotta’ look at it a bit more positively, rather than as a chore! :0( – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -frogett…@hotmail.com wrote: > Kimberlee, > Any chance of your going back to school to get the credentials that would make > the difference?  Possibly getting partial credit for your work experience? > evitsky > In article <36962CF5.CC3ED…@mosquitonet.com>, >   Kimberlee <skip-…@mosquitonet.com> wrote: > > > What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have? > > I’m a legal advocate for battered women.  I am a one-person program; I > > work with between 100 and 200 women a month.  I provide information > > about domestic violence, safety planning, the court system, custody and > > divorce issues.  I am a sexual assault counselor; I respond to the > > hospital when someone is sexually assaulted. > > > What made you choose this career? > > I am a Christian.  I want to give back to God some of what He has given > > me. > > > What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my > > > helping others, etc) > > Definitely not money.  But at the end of every day, I’ve felt that I’ve > > done something to help someone else.  And, especially during the > > holidays, I am reminded by this when I receive Christmas cards from > > women who are doing well now, but who were formerly in very lethal > > situations. > > > How do you feel your career impacts others? > > Pretty significantly.  I am good at what I do, and I love helping other > > people. > > > What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your > > > career? > > Right now, I am at my lowest point.  I am thinking of leaving my job > > (internal politics got me down).  The job itself is extremely stressful; > > I’ve been threatened by abusive men, I’ve been followed around town and > > in stores; and it’s exhausting always feeling "on your guard."  The main > > responsibility I have is being "right" in the work I do; I can’t afford > > to mis-state anything; I can’t cross the line and give legal advice; I > > can’t show frustration or allow my own feelings into my work.  And now, > > I have to watch my back.  I don’t have the right letters after my name > > to get another job in social work which pays as well as this one does, > > so I’m considering going back to work as a paralegal for a law firm. > > Depending on the type of law, the job could be fulfilling, but not > > nearly as fulfilling as social work.  <Sigh> > > > Tamara > > — > > What would a chair look like if your knees bent the other way? > ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- > http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

– Save the President!  Legalize perjury!

Response:

I know a lot of kind, generous, wealthy people.  But I know more wealthy people who are complete, non-feeling nincompoops, too self-absorbed to notice the other side.  I, myself, am not wealthy by any means.  But I’m comfortable and I don’t go without.  I still remind myself that there are others who are praying for food and warmth–not for a new Stealth. I think there’s where the differences are.  I have friends who are attorneys; I regularly network with wealthy store owners.  I’m not embarrassed to pick up the phone and ask someone for help for a client (plane ticket, shoes, help with dental work, etc.)  Most of the people I call help out and do so with a generous, loving heart.  I think greed affects both the affluent and the poor, as does Grace. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -urf wrote: > >I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really > >needy people, rather than making $75.00 an hour and helping those who cry over > >not being able to afford a person to come and clean their house. > Do you realize how cold an unfeeling this sounds. Because some have achieved > financial success does not disqualify them from emotional pain. Perhaps you > should examine your own qualifications as a "counselor" to see how your > prejudices have kept you from having both financial and emotional reward from > your work. Rich or poo, pain is pain. > Oceanmomma wrote: > > >From: frogett…@hotmail.com > > >Kimberlee, > > >Any chance of your going back to school to get the credentials that would > > >make > > >the difference?  Possibly getting partial credit for your work experience? > > >evitsky > > The sad part, is that even having the credentials does not guarantee a job that > > pays well.  I have the BA, MA and counselor titles…however, I work for a > > social service agency and the pay is horrible.  But in the deepest part of my > > heart…I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really > > needy people, rather than making $75.00 an hour and helping those who cry over > > not being able to afford a person to come and clean their house.  Yes, > > everything is relative…but I tend to go for the underdog.  I can relate > > better.

– Save the President!  Legalize perjury!

Response:

I’m actually thinking of law school, with a focus on family & immigrant law.  YEARS later…I may be able to do what I want…but of course, gotta’ pay those school loans! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Oceanmomma wrote: > >From: frogett…@hotmail.com > >Kimberlee, > >Any chance of your going back to school to get the credentials that would > >make > >the difference?  Possibly getting partial credit for your work experience? > >evitsky > The sad part, is that even having the credentials does not guarantee a job that > pays well.  I have the BA, MA and counselor titles…however, I work for a > social service agency and the pay is horrible.  But in the deepest part of my > heart…I would rather get the crappy pay and know that I am helping the really > needy people, rather than making $75.00 an hour and helping those who cry over > not being able to afford a person to come and clean their house.  Yes, > everything is relative…but I tend to go for the underdog.  I can relate > better.

– Save the President!  Legalize perjury!

Response:

Binky Barnes wrote: > A terrific service you provide.  

Thank you! > I’ve used sexual assault counselors/advocates when I’ve had clients who’d been > assaulted.

I think that trained, skilled counselors make a huge difference, for both the victim, and the prosecution. > Tough stuff to deal with.

Yup.  The sexual assault cases aren’t as tough on me as the *children’s* SA cases. > I’ve also been involved with the somewhat "cloak and dagger" process of > sheltering.  Helped one client get to a local shelter (DAWN-Domestic Abuse > Women’s Network, a terrific organization).  They answer the phone "Dawn’s > house."  They give no address, list no location and you meet them at a > neutral location, which changes.  It’s a good setup, run entirely by women, > for women and their children.

Safer that way.  I once had a guy come to our shelter (its address is well known), carrying a gun & gun clip, asking for me by name.  Talk about Heebie-Jeebies! — Save the President!  Legalize perjury!

Response:

TYounger wrote: > Okay, I’ve decided to go back to school, which is probably going to > happen next fall, and at this point, I don’t have time to go full time, > so I’ll just be taking a few basic classes.  I was wondering some things > about people and their careers: > What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have?

I’m a legal advocate for battered women.  I am a one-person program; I work with between 100 and 200 women a month.  I provide information about domestic violence, safety planning, the court system, custody and divorce issues.  I am a sexual assault counselor; I respond to the hospital when someone is sexually assaulted. > What made you choose this career?

I am a Christian.  I want to give back to God some of what He has given me. > What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my > helping others, etc)

Definitely not money.  But at the end of every day, I’ve felt that I’ve done something to help someone else.  And, especially during the holidays, I am reminded by this when I receive Christmas cards from women who are doing well now, but who were formerly in very lethal situations. > How do you feel your career impacts others?

Pretty significantly.  I am good at what I do, and I love helping other people. > What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your > career?

Right now, I am at my lowest point.  I am thinking of leaving my job (internal politics got me down).  The job itself is extremely stressful; I’ve been threatened by abusive men, I’ve been followed around town and in stores; and it’s exhausting always feeling "on your guard."  The main responsibility I have is being "right" in the work I do; I can’t afford to mis-state anything; I can’t cross the line and give legal advice; I can’t show frustration or allow my own feelings into my work.  And now, I have to watch my back.  I don’t have the right letters after my name to get another job in social work which pays as well as this one does, so I’m considering going back to work as a paralegal for a law firm. Depending on the type of law, the job could be fulfilling, but not nearly as fulfilling as social work.  <Sigh> > Tamara

– What would a chair look like if your knees bent the other way?

Response:

> So, the moral of this story is don’t get into programming, train horses > instead.

LOL, I was headed in a programming direction, then took a job in technical support for an internet service provider instead.   What made me laugh though.. I used to rodeo when I was a teenager, I had a horse that was supposed to be broken, but she was more green, and I thought her how to run barrels and poles.  Even won a couple of amatuer horseraces with her.  I absolutely love horses, and have been talking to SO about getting enough land so I might have another someday. Tamara

Response:

In article <36923F41.F8DF4…@nowhere.com>,   dana <d…@nowhere.com> wrote: Hi Dana, > > What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have? > Product Development Engineer (programmer).  Write programs/scripts for > whatever needs to be written. > > What made you choose this career? > I didn’t really choose it.  I just kept doing things related to my BS (MA/CS) > that increased my paycheck.  If I had my druthers I would be training horses.

Training horses would be fun too but I wouldn’t do that for a living. > > What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my > > helping others, etc) > Money and to a very limited degree self-esteem.  I used to derive a great > deal of self-esteem and fulfillment from my career but now I realize that > there are so many more interesting and fulfilling things that I would rather > be doing. > > How do you feel your career impacts others? > In a very limited way.  Perhaps a script that I write will make another > person’s job easier but that is about it.

I think being able to make other people’s job easier is not limited at all. > > What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your > > career? > The lowest point was about a few months ago when I realized (after 2 and 1/2 > years) that my boss was completely sexist and that my lack of a promotion was > solely based on discrimination.  It was a clasic case of sexual > discrimination with a little sexual harrassment thrown in for good measure. > I wasn’t so upset that he did this to me as I was upset that this even goes > on.  It took me a very long time to realize and accept what was happening > because I thought that discrimination was something that only happened years > ago and that people who claim discrimination now are those who don’t work > hard enough. Boy was I wrong.

That really sucks. But there are lots of companies where discrimination doesn’t exist. And fortunately mine is one of them. There are quite a few female executives who used to be programmers. And never once did I see any sign of discrimination in any group that I worked in and know of. > So, needless to say, the highest part of my career was when I handed in my > resignation (4 days notice and my boss said to me, "What am I going to do > about project X?" and I said, "Well maybe you should have thought about that > before."  That was a GREAT feeling.  However, this story has an even happier > ending because I landed a job very close to home with stock options and for > much more money.

Good for you > So, the moral of this story is don’t get into programming, train horses > instead.

Hah I think how well you do in your field is more important than which field you are in. I chose to be a programmer solely because I love programming. I love the feelings when I get a program to work and watch it do things I wanted it to. And I am happy to be one. I am only happy doing things that I like as a career. If I liked training horses more I would make it my career. I used to have very high self esteem but recently I just changed group and I now have a bit less People in this group are much more compotent. But this is just temporary. I am sure I’ll catch up. I’ve only been working for a year, after all. Happy coding, Ang > Good luck, > Dana

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> What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have?

Product Development Engineer (programmer).  Write programs/scripts for whatever needs to be written. > What made you choose this career?

I didn’t really choose it.  I just kept doing things related to my BS (MA/CS) that increased my paycheck.  If I had my druthers I would be training horses. > What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my > helping others, etc)

Money and to a very limited degree self-esteem.  I used to derive a great deal of self-esteem and fulfillment from my career but now I realize that there are so many more interesting and fulfilling things that I would rather be doing. > How do you feel your career impacts others?

In a very limited way.  Perhaps a script that I write will make another person’s job easier but that is about it. > What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your > career?

The lowest point was about a few months ago when I realized (after 2 and 1/2 years) that my boss was completely sexist and that my lack of a promotion was solely based on discrimination.  It was a clasic case of sexual discrimination with a little sexual harrassment thrown in for good measure. I wasn’t so upset that he did this to me as I was upset that this even goes on.  It took me a very long time to realize and accept what was happening because I thought that discrimination was something that only happened years ago and that people who claim discrimination now are those who don’t work hard enough. Boy was I wrong. So, needless to say, the highest part of my career was when I handed in my resignation (4 days notice and my boss said to me, "What am I going to do about project X?" and I said, "Well maybe you should have thought about that before."  That was a GREAT feeling.  However, this story has an even happier ending because I landed a job very close to home with stock options and for much more money. So, the moral of this story is don’t get into programming, train horses instead. Good luck, Dana

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comments below TYounger wrote: > Okay, I’ve decided to go back to school, which is probably going to > happen next fall, and at this point, I don’t have time to go full time, > so I’ll just be taking a few basic classes.

Congrats Tamara!!  :-) > What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have?

Small Business Owner–computers (mainly hardware and networking).Responsibilities:  Pretty much running the whole business.  It’s mine and my husband’s, but my husband works f/t in addition, so I pretty much am the only one here all day (besides our p/t h.s. kid).  So, that said, accounting, upgrading, repairing, building and networking customer’s systems, purchasing, human resources (for my employee of one, hehe), customer service, marketing, etc etc etc. > What made you choose this career?

My husband was into computers with his career and as a hobby.  When we married, I also got into it as a hobby….  When there were no computer stores we liked locally to support our hobby with, we decided to open our own… and tada!!  I was a paralegal for a Japanese Patent Law Firm out in DC and Allan was working in Web Engineering for UUNet/WorldCom/MCI conglomerate.  He made more money and had better benefits than me, so we decided it would be best if I left my job and ran the business.  Best decision of my life.  :-) > What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my > helping others, etc)

Definately not the money part.  hahahahaha.  ;-)  I’m not taking a pay at the moment, since we’re only a year old.  So I would have to go with fulfillment, helping others, and fun.  I absolutely *love* going onsite and networking, personally.  It’s so amazing.  You have a small business who has 5 computers that don’t communicate with eachother… you hook them up and get them communicating with eachother and with the rest of the world (we also do internet consulting when we do networking.  It’s amazing!  I love it. > How do you feel your career impacts others?

Help small businesses use their computers more efficiently.  And help some even get computers to begin with.  :-) > What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your > career?

Lowest:  International customer used a stolen credit card to purchase items from us.  $3,000.00 worth of items.  Our credit card processing bank took the money back from us when they realized it was a stolen card and the customer got to keep the mercandise.  (they are in russia).  I felt so helpless. Noone would help me.  Our credit card company was a total bust.  And the Russian Embasy would not help us contact police in russia. Highest:  When I finally realized I knew how to build a whole system myself….  ;-)  (remember, I started this business coming from a legal background only a year ago). –roseanne — Roseanne Liska @ Spectrum Computers http://www.spectrum-computers.com http://www.webcreations-va.com mailto:rosea…@spectrum-computers.com Affordable Hardware, Networking, Web Hosting and Design From the Desk of Toto:  Hated Oz, Took the Shoes, Went Home!!

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You know….you have a lot of stress like I do.  It’s those moments where you get notes that tell how much you’ve taught them…and how they hear you speaking to them when they in a trying situation…and it did a great deal of good to "hear that little voice"….it’s those things that make the stress worth it.  I think I would like to TRY teaching….(visit)…..but I wouldn’t want to live there.  I don’t have a whole lot of patience for kids…that’s why I only have one.  But I think it would be cool for a while.                                     ISIS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -misscee wrote in message … >(TYounger) wrote: >> What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have? >Middle grade teacher of math, science, house (team) leader, science >department co-chair, tech support person. If you are thinking of >education, email me, cuz I could go on and on and on about what I do. >> What made you choose this career? >I was a sales rep and volunteering in my daughter’s classroom. I found I >just loved being in the classroom, surrounded by kids and I went back to >school to get certified to teach. >> What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my >> helping others, etc) >I can create my own little world…I love being in my room, fixing it up, >finding fun lessons to do, interacting with the kids, learning new things. >The money is decent and I get plenty of time off, (but I don’t take it.) >> How do you feel your career impacts others? >I’m a role model for girls, who think that women aren’t good at math, >computers, and science. >> What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your >> career? >The stress is awful. I am responsible for being in school and "on" every >day. If I’m sick I still have to prepare plans for the substitute. As a >science teacher I have to get to school early to set up for labs. It’s >physically taxing, and the students’ disrespect wears you down. The >paperwork is tremendous. Too many meetings (I meet, therefore, I am.) But >then I get these notes from my students about what I  mean to them which >makes it all worthwhile. >I keep saying I’m going to go back into sales (educational technology) >Miss Cee

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I do now, because it is a brand new store / crew / management team.  I had the other store set that I worked only 9 hour days (the usual in this business is 10-14).  Plus, as long as there was staff, I could schedule myself long weekends and stuff.  It will take a little while to get this one up to speed.  It would be bad if I had to work nights.  That is hard on a family; but I don’t have to.  My days off are always together.  For a restaurant manager, I’ve got it pretty easy.  It is a very good position to be in when you have family wanting a little part time money.  Everyone has a job.  LOL  I can’t wait to bring my son into it.  He is only 10…but he can’t wait either.  He has even helped me figure out solutions to some problems I’ve had there.  I guess he’s been paying attention to all the talking I’ve been doing about "doing the job right…this employee is great…they did this, and this, and this"….he wants to help me.  I think that’s great.  I really think it is an age sensitive career, because of the pace.  I imagine I will grow out of it eventually and then go into strictly classroom training for them.                                     ISIS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -misscee wrote in message … >"ISIS"  wrote: >> ISIS:  restaurant manager. >My husband was a restaurant manager for many years. Do you work a lot of >hours? That was really the biggest problem we had with the job. Other than >that it was great. I used to work part time for him doing odds and ends >which worked out well when the kids were babies. >Miss Cee

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TYounger wrote: > Okay, I’ve decided to go back to school, which is probably going to > happen next fall, and at this point, I don’t have time to go full time, > so I’ll just be taking a few basic classes.  I was wondering some things > about people and their careers: > What is your career?  What responsibilities do you have?

Copywriter, I write everything businesses need, from feature articles to sales brochures to print ads to direct-mail pieces like catalogs. > What made you choose this career?

I’ve almost always known I wanted to be a writer, this is a good way to do that for a living. > What do you personally get out of your career? (ie, money, fulfillment my > helping others, etc)

Then money is enough for me, but mainly I love it for the flexibility and creativity. The flexibility allows me my other "career", to travel all over the US to race. > How do you feel your career impacts others?

It really doesn’t, except sometimes I feel like an ad slut ("buy this, your life won’t be complete without it"). Now that racing is winding down for me, I’m looking at other places to put my energy for just this reason — just mailed off an application for an evening law school program (so I can keep working). > What have been the highest and lowest points of the entrails of your > career?

Highest is almost every day, I love what I do. Lowest, I guess, was doing jobs I didn’t like so I could pay the bills while I built up a big enough freelance portfolio to get a "real" job.

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Question:

yawn<

Yeah?  So what? Kage

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -UNITED STATES DISTRICT DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA CIRCUIT UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. WE, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE Defendants. Criminal Action No. 98-0117 SUBPOENA TO TESTIFY AND TO PRODUCE DOCUMENTS AND/OR OBJECTS To:     We, the American People  You, and each of you, are hereby commanded to appear in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia Circuit, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, on the 1st day of October, 1998, at 9:00 A.M., to testify in the case of United States v. We, the American People, regarding, without limitation, any and all SEXUAL ACTIVITIES you have engaged in and/or witnessed within the past three [3] years of the date herein, and to bring with you any and all BOOKS, MAGAZINE SUBSCRIPTIONS, NECKTIES, CREDIT CARD RECORDS, RESTAURANT BILLS, THEATRE TICKETS, HOTEL/MOTEL BILLS, MEDICAL RECORDS, VIDEOTAPES, AUDIOTAPES, COMPUTER STORAGE MEDIA, etc., purchased and/or received within the past three [3] years of the date herein.         Please take notice that failure to appear and/or answer personal, private sexual questions truthfully and completely, and/or produce personal papers and effects at such date and time, are gounds for criminal prosecution for contempt and/or perjury, nothwithstanding that that 22-year-old ADULT WOMAN’s, Monica Lewinski’s, CONSENSUAL oral sex with the President in Washington, D.C., in 1996-97, is neither relevant nor material to Paula Jones’ alleged non-consensual sexual harassment in Arkansas seven [7] years ago. See Fed.R.Evi. 401 and 18 U.S.C.

Question:

I came here a few weeks ago looking for some feed back and an opinion from the readers and docs here and yes also some support. I recieved one intelligent answer from the 20 or so replies. the rest were an accounting of how many nurses there were posting here. So maybe if people could get the help they seek here they would not object to all the xxx jokes so much. I was scared and worried and asked  for help and recieved none. I have been reading occasionaly to see if by accident  I could pick up some added info that would be of help to me. So far no luck, but lot of space  and time has been devoted to jokes and arguments over jokes. I do not object to  jokes-even xxxjokes but it was not what I came here for. just my 2 cents worth . Barb Donly

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Barb is right. You homies ought to start your own email group for your gossip.  The news group says "support" and "arthritis". No one addresses my questions either. Where’s the support? Suzz

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I was scared and worried and asked  for help and recieved none.

Hi Barb,       The one thing you have to learn to survive in this group (and with these diseases) is to be assertive!  If you didn’t get a good response to your first question, ask it again.  It’s your health, after all and just as you will have to ask questions of your doctors and learn about the meds you take, you need to speak up here if you’ve got pressing questions.  Someone will certainly try to help if they can.      Also, if you’ve seen a post titled |||TIPS FOR NEWBIES…., read it!! It’s got some great web links and general info about this group and the net. If you can’t find it, e-mail me and I’ll forward it to  you.     As you’ve seen, we’re a bit short on common sense lately, but not at all short on desire to help. Denise

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I came here a few weeks ago looking for some feed back and an opinion from the readers and docs here and yes also some support.

Barb: There are many of us here who would like to help you with your questions. If possible, could you repost your tehm and we will attempt to help out. Rose

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Barbara, I’m sorry you didn’t find much helpful information in the 20 or so replys to your original post.  Sometimes a post sets off a discussion in another direction – like the time Shirley sneezed and started an avalanche.  If your original questions weren’t answered to your satisfaction, try posting them again.  I’m sure someone will give it a stab. Barbara Joy I came here a few weeks ago looking for some feed back and an opinion from the readers and docs here and yes also some support. I recieved one intelligent answer from the 20 or so replies. the rest were an accounting of how many nurses there were posting here. So maybe if people could get the help they seek here they would not object to all the xxx jokes so much. I was scared and worried and asked  for help and recieved none. I have been reading occasionaly to see if by accident  I could pick up some added info that would be of help to me. So far no luck, but lot of space  and time has been devoted to jokes and arguments over jokes. I do not object to  jokes-even xxxjokes but it was not what I came here for. just my 2 cents worth . Barb Donly

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Barb, I’m sorry you didn’t feel your questions were being properly addressed.  Folks do get distracted sometimes, but that doesn’t mean they don’t care or don’t have information to offer.   We all would just LOVE to answer your questions… now won’t you ask again?  Or better yet, just jump in and start asking and answering yourself… there are plenty of good posts to choose from, and  that will be the start of more of the kind of supportive and informational posts that should predominate here. Best regards, LadyAndy2

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Barb,    Do try again.  The Newsgroup is in a phase of renewal <BG and hopefully everyone will be back to normal soon after all the construction work is cleaned up.   Sorry you have been ignored, we really do like to try to help. Lori

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Question:

3) My most paranoid question: Ok, when sanatizing,   a) is it really absolutely neccessary to rinse after using a solution      of 1 tblspn/bleach to 1 galn/water?   b) The real reason I ask (a) is, won’t rinsing with municipal tap water      eliminate contribute bad stuff to what would otherwise have been      sanitary equiptment?

I don’t know about *your* tapwater, but mine (esp. from the hot side) smells strongly of chlorine, so I’m guessing not much is living in it. I rinse my chlorine-sanitized utensils, carboys, etc. with tapwater for years, and have never had a problem (except the time the chiller leaked into the pot…). Jo3sh Malt does more than Milton can To justify God’s ways to Man.                – A. E. Housman

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The following has been my experience: Reuse of liquid yeast is fine if you maintain satisfactory sanitary conditions, but I strongly question the repitching of dry yeast. Dry yeast is never contamination free even on the first use, and because it is far less expensive then liquid why take the chance. I look at it this way; Do I want to risk $40 worth of choice ingredients just to save a buck on yeast? Boilovers happen but I have never had one effect the outcome of my beer, good or bad. It is not possible for a home brewer to maintain laboratory sanitary conditions, so just do the best you can. I use bleach to sanitize and always rinse prior to adding the wort. I have never had a problem with this and I don’t think you will either as long as your water supply is safe. If this is still a concern to you I would suggest using idophor rather then bleach. It is more expensive but you don’t have to rinse (unless you really want to). I hope this helps.

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The thing is, I used a dry yeast for this. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s fine to re-use liquid yeast in this way, but I’ve also been lead to believe that it might not be the best idea to do it with freeze-dryed yeast. What do the experts say? -Also, should I bother to clean out the trub/yeast at the bottom? if so, how?

        It should be no problem to re-use dry yeast.  However, make sure that your batch was not infected in any way.  Dry yeast has more of a tendency to pick up infection during processing and manufacture than does liquid.  Secondly, you might want to only harvest the yeast from your viable layer.  This is generally considered to be the middle layer of creamy, white yeast, accounting for about 50% of the mass of the cake.  There was a procedure posted here about how to "wash" yeast.  You may consider it.  It involved adding water, dissolving everything, letting it settle, and pouring off.  Repeating this a couple of times, so the author said, would purify the yeast somewhat. 2) Everyone dreads boil-over, but it happens relatively often. Obviously, it can be prevented, but I’m wondering, does it really have a negative effect on the resulting beer??  I’ve been lead to believe it might be, although that’s not my intuition. What do ya think?

        They should NOT have a negative effect.  However, they are not necessary.  Why bother letting it take place?  The only effects they have are:  Create a huge mess, and decrease from your original specific gravity.  They are very easy to control:         Get a larger pot.  If you don’t already have a pot big enough to do a complete boil without boilover, you’ll eventually want one. Trust me.         Keep a spray bottle next to your brew pot, filled with ice water.  If it threatens to boil over, spray it with the water.  The boilover should go down.  After that, turn down the heat a little bit so that it doesn’t happen again.   a) is it really absolutely neccessary to rinse after using a solution      of 1 tblspn/bleach to 1 galn/water?   b) The real reason I ask (a) is, won’t rinsing with municipal tap water      eliminate contribute bad stuff to what would otherwise have been      sanitary equiptment?   c) What about just letting sanitary equiptment sit in the air?

        a) Chlorine + beer = bad.  Personally, I wouldn’t want to drink ANY chlorine in my beer (or my municipal water, which is why I filter it).  Do you?  Even worse, when chlorine combines with beer, bad compounds form.  Yuck.         b) The chlorine seems to be mainly useful for cleaning bacteria that might be living on the surface of the glassware. Municipal water, for the most part, should be fairly sanitary.  The small amount of bacteria you’ll probably be re-introducing should not be a huge problem, as you’ll also be pitching a sufficient amount of yeast to take over and destroy it.         c)  Not good with household bleach, as the sodium hypochlorate will not evaporate, but will dry into a powder instead.  Then, you might as well have just added it straight into your brew.         If you’re really serious about not wanting to rinse, get some C-Brite, or a similar no-rinse sanitizer.  Ask your local homebrew shop about it.  (I rinse C-Brite, too.  My nose tells me that not all of it ever evaporates) NOTICE TO BULK EMAILER(S): Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, 227, any and all unsolicited commercial e-mail sent to this address is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US.                                                                    

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Hey folks, I’ve got a few questions that I’m hoping I can come to some consensus about. 1) I’m currently brewing a fairly light lager, (started last night). I’m planning on transferring it to a secondary monday. So, on monday, I want to use the yeast from the light lager in the bottom of the primary fermenter to jump start a batch of dopplebock. (and also to cut costs) The thing is, I used a dry yeast for this. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s fine to re-use liquid yeast in this way, but I’ve also been lead to believe that it might not be the best idea to do it with freeze-dryed yeast. What do the experts say? -Also, should I bother to clean out the trub/yeast at the bottom? if so, how? 2) Everyone dreads boil-over, but it happens relatively often. Obviously, it can be prevented, but I’m wondering, does it really have a negative effect on the resulting beer??  I’ve been lead to believe it might be, although that’s not my intuition. What do ya think? 3) My most paranoid question: Ok, when sanatizing,    a) is it really absolutely neccessary to rinse after using a solution       of 1 tblspn/bleach to 1 galn/water?    b) The real reason I ask (a) is, won’t rinsing with municipal tap water       eliminate contribute bad stuff to what would otherwise have been       sanitary equiptment?    c) What about just letting sanitary equiptment sit in the air? If these things do make it unsanitary, is it to such a small degree that it won’t affect the quality? And, is there anything I can do to fix these problems? Thanks for your help! -Justin —  "I am the person my parents warned me about." |"A lie is a  |     Message Copyright, 1995. The Microsoft    | "A little    | |technological| Network is prohibited from redistributing this| rebellion now| |inexactitude"| work in any form. License for distribution is | & then is a  | |- Winston    | available for US$5000000. Distribution without| good thing." | |    Churchill|permission constitutes agreement to these terms| T. Jefferson | -CIA–NSA–FBI–ATF–SS–KGB–MI5–CSIS–SUPO–PIP–DEA–NRO–xxx–xxx–xx x-/              Any cool agencies in your country?           ^^^ Mail me!!

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