Question:

Cat, From a laborer.. to a CEO, the politics never change. Remember that. It has little to do with your position. Go there, do your job. Smile when you want to and need to, be fair and friendly and don’t get overly involved. Come home and live your life at home, not at your job. Leave what happens there.. THERE. That’s my best advice. I was a corporate rat for a long long time and I know the games very well. I can not tell you the sleep I used to lose over office politics just like you described. Really.. leave it there at the end of the day and keep things as simple as you can. Susan.. who left the corporate race and never looked back. 260/219/160 — 4weeks 18:22hours of being smoke-free, 1,159 cigs not smoked, $214.42 saved, 4day 0:35hours of my life saved

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes For those of you who are savvy in the ways of office politics, help! I’ve been at a new job about two months. Shortly before I arrived, they went through a big computer software conversion. It seemed to me everyone was getting along pretty well and they seemed comfortable with the conversion.  I have a "high profile" job on my floor, and possibly I’m being resented because of it. There is also some history that might be working here, namely that the person before me was abrasive and disliked by everyone. She finally got fired. Last week, to my surprise, two of the women on the other side of the office seemed freaked out about "the files"–or the flow of work. They said they didn’t understand it. I was confused by this. They’ve both worked there for many years. (They are probably 15-20 years younger than me.) One woman was crying. Another woman and I asked them to meet with us. I drew kind of a flow chart for them of how the files are moving through the office and asked if that was their understanding or did they have a different idea of the way it should go? (In other words, I was trying to get us all on the same page and I made it very clear that my drawing was just a starting point.) They acted completely happy at the end of the meeting. I wasn’t acting as "the boss"–I’m not their boss anyway. I was just trying to help them because they were so upset and frustrated. I have a lot bigger involvement in the flow, so I knew how things were going. Well, the next morning, I got called into my boss’s office and he and the office manager told me the two women had complained bitterly about me, saying I was aggressive and arrogant, I had only been there 2 months and I was "telling them what to do" which is absolutely untrue, etc., etc. I’m self-confident and I don’t hide that, but I’m in no way aggressive or arrogant. Fortunately, I was able to explain things to the satisfaction of my superiors, but I was pretty burned up. A lot of things that were reported to me as having been said by the two women was totally false or grossly misprepresented. To make things worse, one of the women is married to a guy who works in our Finance Dept. and he is popular with everyone, so now the well is poisoned. People all over the building are getting the gossip treatment and I’m being made out to be an arrogant, pushy, egotistical…well, you get the picture. It makes me feel bad because people who were friendly are now treating me coolly. There are two sides to every story, but I feel it would be futile and counterproductive for me to say anything to anyone about this. I did tell my boss that if I’m attacked in this unfair manner again, I’m going to move on. I don’t need this kind of stress in my life. I’m hoping this will all blow over. (Thankfully, the boss told me they are extremely happy with my work.) While I could certainly be replaced, it would take some effort on their part because my job is very demanding, technical, and requires a high degree of accuracy (it is an accounting position). So I’m not in fear of losing my job, but I resent the unfairness of it all. I’ve never been good at office politics. I like people and trust them, and I have no ill-will towards anyone. I mainly feel sorry for the two women who stirred everything up. They must feel powerless if they couldn’t show their true feelings to me. Any advice? Cat

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes For those of you who are savvy in the ways of office politics, help! I’ve been at a new job about two months. Shortly before I arrived, they went through a big computer software conversion. It seemed to me everyone was getting along pretty well and they seemed comfortable with the conversion.  I have a "high profile" job on my floor, and possibly I’m being resented because of it. There is also some history that might be working here, namely that the person before me was abrasive and disliked by everyone. She finally got fired. Last week, to my surprise, two of the women on the other side of the office seemed freaked out about "the files"–or the flow of work. They said they didn’t understand it. I was confused by this. They’ve both worked there for many years. (They are probably 15-20 years younger than me.) One woman was crying. Another woman and I asked them to meet with us. I drew kind of a flow chart for them of how the files are moving through the office and asked if that was their understanding or did they have a different idea of the way it should go? (In other words, I was trying to get us all on the same page and I made it very clear that my drawing was just a starting point.) They acted completely happy at the end of the meeting. I wasn’t acting as "the boss"–I’m not their boss anyway. I was just trying to help them because they were so upset and frustrated. I have a lot bigger involvement in the flow, so I knew how things were going. Well, the next morning, I got called into my boss’s office and he and the office manager told me the two women had complained bitterly about me, saying I was aggressive and arrogant, I had only been there 2 months and I was "telling them what to do" which is absolutely untrue, etc., etc.  I’m self-confident and I don’t hide that, but I’m in no way aggressive or arrogant. Fortunately, I was able to explain things to the satisfaction of my superiors, but I was pretty burned up. A lot of things that were reported to me as having been said by the two women was totally false or grossly misprepresented. To make things worse, one of the women is married to a guy who works in our Finance Dept. and he is popular with everyone, so now the well is poisoned. People all over the building are getting the gossip treatment and I’m being made out to be an arrogant, pushy, egotistical…well, you get the picture. It makes me feel bad because people who were friendly are now treating me coolly. There are two sides to every story, but I feel it would be futile and counterproductive for me to say anything to anyone about this. I did tell my boss that if I’m attacked in this unfair manner again, I’m going to move on. I don’t need this kind of stress in my life. I’m hoping this will all blow over. (Thankfully, the boss told me they are extremely happy with my work.) While I could certainly be replaced, it would take some effort on their part because my job is very demanding, technical, and requires a high degree of accuracy (it is an accounting position). So I’m not in fear of losing my job, but I resent the unfairness of it all. I’ve never been good at office politics. I like people and trust them, and I have no ill-will towards anyone. I mainly feel sorry for the two women who stirred everything up. They must feel powerless if they couldn’t show their true feelings to me. Any advice? Cat

When being pro active and trying to improve things, superiors who aren’t creative usually misunderstand. i head up a Tenant’s Commitee along with another woman who is much more tactful. I always run stuff by her and together we make it palitable for management and always in the sprit of improving cooperation between landlord and tenants.  It seems to be working but always at the rate of two steps forward and one step back. We stand firm on the mission that all our requests are reasonable and should be carried out for everyone’s mutual benefit and better understanding. We run most of our plans by management first but go ahead even if they don’t always approve or agree because under the law we have a right to exist, meet and make requests. . But then, we are not on salary. — Diva The Best Man for the Job is a Woman

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x-no-archive: yes For those of you who are savvy in the ways of office politics, help! I’ve been at a new job about two months. Shortly before I arrived, they went through a big computer software conversion. It seemed to me everyone was getting along pretty well and they seemed comfortable with the conversion.

I do not care if you are going from the worst system in the world to a state of the art system, conversions are always painful.  I have been through a couple myself and I have a large client who is just this week, undergoing a major change.  It is stressful for everyone!  I have a "high profile" job on my floor, and possibly I’m being resented because of it. There is also some history that might be working here, namely that the person before me was abrasive and disliked by everyone. She finally got fired. Last week, to my surprise, two of the women on the other side of the office seemed freaked out about "the files"–or the flow of work. They said they didn’t understand it. I was confused by this. They’ve both worked there for many years. (They are probably 15-20 years younger than me.) One woman was crying.

Grown up professionals do not cry because they do not understand the flow of paperwork.  I suspect something else was eating at her.  Was she recently reprimanded and blamed her confusion on the systems and processes you have in place?  Is her position or the importance of the position threatened by the new software? Another woman and I asked them to meet with us. I drew kind of a flow chart for them of how the files are moving through the office and asked if that was their understanding or did they have a different idea of the way it should go? (In other words, I was trying to get us all on the same page and I made it very clear that my drawing was just a starting point.) They acted completely happy at the end of the meeting. I wasn’t acting as "the boss"–I’m not their boss anyway. I was just trying to help them because they were so upset and frustrated. I have a lot bigger involvement in the flow, so I knew how things were going. Well, the next morning, I got called into my boss’s office and he and the office manager told me the two women had complained bitterly about me, saying I was aggressive and arrogant, I had only been there 2 months and I was "telling them what to do" which is absolutely untrue, etc., etc.

If, as I suspect, they were upset about something else entirely, then you probably went in and told them something they knew very well and you might very well have come across as arrogant or condescending.  The thing is, you acted upon the knowledge you were given.  Two months is hardly a long history.  As you become more a part of the culture, you will understand your work environment better.  I can assure you it is always more complex than it looks on the surface.  I’m  self-confident and I don’t hide that, but I’m in no way aggressive or arrogant. Fortunately, I was able to explain things to the satisfaction of my superiors, but I was pretty burned up. A lot of things that were reported to me as having been said by the two women was totally false or grossly misprepresented.

I have been a part of a large corporate environment and rule number one is to keep your mouth shut until you know who you are dealing with.  Be friendly.  Be professional.  Never forget that people are not frequently who they appear to be on the surface.  There is a culture in large corporations and positions of power that appeal to very competitive people.  Just because one is talented and brilliant does imply that they are ethical.  Knowing about individual people takes a lot longer than two months. To make things worse, one of the women is married to a guy who works in our Finance Dept. and he is popular with everyone, so now the well is poisoned. People all over the building are getting the gossip treatment and I’m being made out to be an arrogant, pushy, egotistical…well, you get the

picture. Listen to me.  Do NOT say anything like you just wrote at the work place.  I don’t care who you think you can trust.  At this point in your career, you cannot trust anyone.  Sorry for being so cynical.  It would be true. It makes me feel bad because people who were friendly are now treating me coolly. There are two sides to every story, but I feel it would be futile and counterproductive for me to say anything to anyone about this. I did tell my boss that if I’m attacked in this unfair manner again, I’m going to move on. I don’t need this kind of stress in my life.

Work in a large corporate environment is never a popularity contest.  Or rather, it shoud never be.  Memories are also short lived.  My guess is that you were manipulated by the cryer (and tears do not belong in a corporate office) and she will do it again.  Without saying a word, they will show their colors again and again and you will slowly be vindicated.  Do work that is worthy of respect and put your name in the footers! I’m hoping this will all blow over. (Thankfully, the boss told me they are extremely happy with my work.) While I could certainly be replaced, it would take some effort on their part because my job is very demanding, technical, and requires a high degree of accuracy (it is an accounting position). So I’m not in fear of losing my job, but I resent the unfairness of it all.

Most of us who are not CPA’s do  not understand the financial world at all. One of my best friend’s is a CPA.  What you do, honestly, from an uneducated point of view is advanced check book balancing:)  Therefore, when you ask for things of other departments, they might very look at you as an inconvenience or an intrusion because they do not see the importance of what you do.  My friend is now working for one of my larger clients.  When she requests things of me (a copy of lease for a cost report; personnel qualifications to justify a salary to the IRS, etc.) she always explains to me why she needs the information.  It makes me feel important as though I am integral to moving millions of dollars to the correct places even though in the grand scheme of things, I ran a copy or two on the copy machine.  Just thought I would share that thought because finance people are really misunderstood.  If you work in a publicly traded company, double the mystery of your job. I’ve never been good at office politics. I like people and trust them, and I have no ill-will towards anyone. I mainly feel sorry for the two women who stirred everything up. They must feel powerless if they couldn’t show their true feelings to me. Any advice?

For the next few months, sit very low and watch.  In the kitchen, note who eats together and who goes to lunch together.   Accept every invitation but never, ever speak of a co-worker.  Attend all meetings but wait until the end part of the meeting to offer an opinion unless you are on the agenda or facilitating the meeting.  Listen to what everyone says and be able to repeat it verbatim if they think it is important.  You will be considered brilliant if you are thought to listen to what is being said by co-workers and superiors.  If co-workers gossip in front of you do not take blatant offense but always respond with. ‘that has not been my experience’ or ‘All of my experiences with so and so have been pleasant’.  If you do not say anything, you silence will indicate that you are quietly agreeing or condoning what is said.  Never repeat gossip!  If someone says something that is really off the wall like an accusation that someone is doing something that is illegal, quietly begin your own investigation and do not do anything about it until you have rock solid proof.  Take credit for your own work but most importantly, give people credit for their work.  Dress well but never sexy:)  Never swear (long story behind that one).  Never talk about your personal life at work.  Read the paper each morning so you can engage in friendly chat at the water cooler without invading personal territories.  Do not make a big deal over your kids at work – one pic should be fine.   If there are company sports teams, join!  Next year at this time, you wil be one of them or you won’t be there at all.  The key is to find out exactly who they are! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cat

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Women and the work place is nothing more than a real time soap operas. The only thing worse than them is men in the workplace, huh?

Not even close. Women interacting with women in the work place are Reality Based Soap Operas. Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article The only thing worse than them is men in the workplace, huh? Nope. Actually, I prefer working with men. I don’t like working under them LOL My female boss was tougher but smarter than any man I ever reported too. Ah, how easy it is to get into the male vs female thing but if we are to remove the glass ceiling (or at least raise it a few notches), we are going to have to learn to address each and every co-worker, boss, subordinate as individuals instead of making gender based assumptions.  In doing this, we put ourselves in a far better position to demand the same of others. The fact that your female boss was tough and smart does not infer that her gender made her that way:) =Soory J i have no inborn gender issues but am reporting obkectively after over 30 years in the work force. My female boss mentored me and helped me become proficient in a field i was not trained for. She taught me skills that have enhanced my abilities in everything but checking spelling when posting to usenet and ignoring trolls. We didn’t have computers in our department when i first worked for her BTW.

I know that you have no inborn gender issues, but the was the fact that your boss was so tough and smart related to her own talents and strengths or was it the result of her being a woman?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article The only thing worse than them is men in the workplace, huh? Nope. Actually, I prefer working with men. I don’t like working under them LOL My female boss was tougher but smarter than any man I ever reported too. Ah, how easy it is to get into the male vs female thing but if we are to remove the glass ceiling (or at least raise it a few notches), we are going to have to learn to address each and every co-worker, boss, subordinate as individuals instead of making gender based assumptions.  In doing this, we put ourselves in a far better position to demand the same of others.  The fact that your female boss was tough and smart does not infer that her gender made her that way:)

=Soory J i have no inborn gender issues but am reporting obkectively after over 30 years in the work force. My female boss mentored me and helped me become proficient in a field i was not trained for. She taught me skills that have enhanced my abilities in everything but checking spelling when posting to usenet and ignoring trolls. We didn’t have computers in our department when i first worked for her BTW.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To make things worse, one of the women is married to a guy who works in our Finance Dept. and he is popular with everyone, so now the well is poisoned. People all over the building are getting the gossip treatment and I’m being made out to be an arrogant, pushy, egotistical…well, you get the picture. Listen to me.  Do NOT say anything like you just wrote at the work place. I don’t care who you think you can trust.  At this point in your career, you cannot trust anyone.  Sorry for being so cynical.  It would be true.

I have to second this advice as I have been screwed by this more than once. No matter how much you want to trust someone at work, until you’ve been there longer than a few months you cannot trust anyone. You don’t know what motivates someone and even though you have the best intentions, not everyone does. Do your job to the best of your ability.  Be pleasant and professional to everyone in spite of how much you’d like to rip his or her face off, and like Julianne said in the rest of her post, keep an eye on the politics and the interaction around you without getting too personally involved.  On my last day of work at my office in Chicago, I made an offhand comment to a close coworker about how much a certain person got on my very last nerve and she was stunned saying that she never would have known that I really couldn’t stand that person.  That’s the way it is at my current job too.  No one knows how I really feel about my coworkers and I plan to keep it that way Jenn

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In article The only thing worse than them is men in the workplace, huh? Nope. Actually, I prefer working with men. I don’t like working under them LOL My female boss was tougher but smarter than any man I ever reported too.

Ah, how easy it is to get into the male vs female thing but if we are to remove the glass ceiling (or at least raise it a few notches), we are going to have to learn to address each and every co-worker, boss, subordinate as individuals instead of making gender based assumptions.  In doing this, we put ourselves in a far better position to demand the same of others.  The fact that your female boss was tough and smart does not infer that her gender made her that way:) j

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In article The only thing worse than them is men in the workplace, huh? Nope. Actually, I prefer working with men.

I don’t like working under them LOL My female boss was tougher but smarter than any man I ever reported too.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes For those of you who are savvy in the ways of office politics, help! <snipped a bunch of non diet bs Women and the work place is nothing more than a real time soap operas. The only thing worse than them is men in the workplace, huh?

Nope. Actually, I prefer working with men. I work with mostly women now and it’s gossip central. I stay out of it all, I can’t stand the hen cackling that goes on. I find offices with more men than women (these are rare nowdays) are much more enjoyable for me. Martha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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x-no-archive: yes For those of you who are savvy in the ways of office politics, help! <snipped a bunch of non diet bs Women and the work place is nothing more than a real time soap operas.

The only thing worse than them is men in the workplace, huh?

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x-no-archive: yes For those of you who are savvy in the ways of office politics, help!

<snipped a bunch of non diet bs Women and the work place is nothing more than a real time soap operas. Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

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Question:

I just received this email. **BEGIN QUOTE** BUSINESS ALERT from The Wall Street Journal April 18, 2002 Arthur Andersen broke off talks with the U.S. government to settle the criminal-obstruction charge against the firm. The abrupt move by the embattled accounting firm came after simultaneous talks to settle civil litigation threatened to unravel. The government’s trial against Andersen now is scheduled to begin May 6 in a Houston federal court. **END QUOTE**

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just received this email. **BEGIN QUOTE** BUSINESS ALERT from The Wall Street Journal April 18, 2002 Arthur Andersen broke off talks with the U.S. government to settle the criminal-obstruction charge against the firm. The abrupt move by the embattled accounting firm came after simultaneous talks to settle civil litigation threatened to unravel. The government’s trial against Andersen now is scheduled to begin May 6 in a Houston federal court. **END QUOTE**

The WSJ article is at http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,4287,SB101916035343251920,00.html (subscription only). There is also a piece at CNNfn – http://money.cnn.com/2002/04/18/news/andersen/index.htm Regards, Bill

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just received this email. **BEGIN QUOTE** BUSINESS ALERT from The Wall Street Journal April 18, 2002 Arthur Andersen broke off talks with the U.S. government to settle the criminal-obstruction charge against the firm. The abrupt move by the embattled accounting firm came after simultaneous talks to settle civil litigation threatened to unravel. The government’s trial against Andersen now is scheduled to begin May 6 in a Houston federal court. **END QUOTE**

In addition to the May 6 criminal trial in Houston, Andersen is facing an April 29 trial in Phoenix in a civil suit over its handling of audits for the Baptist Foundation of Arizona. Andersen on March 1 had agreed to pay $217 million to settle that case, but backed out of the deal four weeks later. http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB101916035343251920,00.html?mod=spe… (subscription only) — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA   http://survivalworks.com

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Arthur Andersen broke off talks with the U.S. government to settle the criminal-obstruction charge against the firm. The abrupt move by the embattled accounting firm came after simultaneous talks to settle civil litigation threatened to unravel.

That’s not all that surprising.  They really needed to settle *all* of the issues and, actually, settling the criminal case could make it virtually impossible to settle the civil one (or an awfully lot more expensive–so much so that *that* could kill Andersen).  Reality is that if the criminal case is settled by itself, it would make it more expensive to settle the civil case because there is no longer a threat that Andersen would be totally barred from performing audits.  So if the civil case isn’t going to settle, Andersen probably can’t *afford* to settle the criminal case. And given the now public position of JP Morgan Chase, it seems very unlikely that the civil case will settle anytime soon.  The only way to get it to settle, most likely, is for the plaintiffs to believe that there is a serious risk that Andersen might lose the criminal case (which might create an incentive on all sides of that issue to get something before Andersen collapes and a) removes money from the table and potentially b) removes any chance of protection for the other defendants). Interestingly enough, Andersen *prevailing* in the criminal case may have a similarly bad impact on Andersen’s chances in the civil case (the insane world of legal matters <grin), although as a practical matter the positive spin might more than offset the negative that Andersen will look more collectible.

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Interestingly enough, Andersen *prevailing* in the criminal case may have a similarly bad impact on Andersen’s chances in the civil case (the insane world of legal matters <grin), although as a practical matter the positive spin might more than offset the negative that Andersen will look more collectible.

Talk about a nest of snares.  Is there any way these guys can win? Imagine what Shakespear could do with this one. Duncan, Duncan, where art thou? Out, out damn spot. Out, out damn spot is still a fools game, as it was in the time of Shakespear. Adding intelligence to management is a stronger risk management strategy than ignorance, fear and denial, which results from destorying information. First, you can’t destroy it all, so your enemies will have all of the evidence. Destruction is evidence of something to hide. Inferences are all negative. It is indeed a tough spot for an executive trying to get things done on time and within budget. No amount of time nor money can remedy the loss of intelligence. http://www.welchco.com/03/00050/61/99/10/2301.HTM — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA   http://survivalworks.com

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Question:

You consider an 80 mile round trip being there for you?  ;~)  I would say that they were waaaaay over there for you.

Geeez! We think nothing of driving 75 miles (one way) just to go shopping. Ed Rinehart in Laramie

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I say Jeremy thats a real weird walk you have there…..lol hope you mail it in and tell them to shove it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The whole purpose of this little tale is to remind you that the next time you need to purchase a power tool, Bosch service will probably be there to provide the after sales support for their products, just like they did for me. A few months ago, I had to drive all the way across town (several miles) to Precision Tool, the Bosch service center here in Tucson.  They service several brands so I brought my troubled Bosch Sander as well as a flawed PC joiner.   They smiled gleefully and proudly accepted the Porter Cable but suddenly things turned real ugly.  They caught a glimpse of some blue in the box I was carrying the tools in. "Uhh, whazzat?  No, no!  We don’t work on Bosch tools" the suddenly irate repairman said. "Well, I was referred here by Bosch, I called and verified with your clerk that you are a Bosch authorized repair center, there’s a Bosch repair center logo in your window, and I can see dozens of Bosch tools behind you on the benches" I said in a calm but confused tone. "Uhh, we only do warranty repair on Bosch tools that we or our friends own – are you friends with anyone who works here?" "No, but…" I stuttered in shock. "We’ll fix this Porter cable right up for you though – it’ll be ready next week" he said as he walked off with my joiner. After speaking with the manager, I was informed that the techs are not ‘comfortable’ with the amount of money Bosch pays for warranty repairs and so they have developed a loose "no Bosch" rule.  I was then given the option of either mailing the sander to Bosch headquarters myself, or having the sander shoved up my ass. Jeremy.

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BTW, there was an "all you can eat", family style fish house someplace in

Houston where I ate more boiled shrimp and raw oysters one night than I thought existed in the world. Washed down of course with steins of cold beer. Lew that was probably Angelo’s Fisherman’s Warf.  It was located off the South Loop 610 and Hwy 90.  A rather large restaurant that did indeed continue to  bring each course of the meal until you were ready for the next.  It was a great place.  That location closed many years ago and reopened on a much smaller scale about 3 blocks from my house. Unfortunately Angelo had a heart attack and did not recover, nor did the restaurant. If you ever make it back to Houston, you should check out Denis Seafood.  It is a Cajun style seafood with Excellent Food, Service and prices.  Not all you can eat but I have never left hungry.  It is located on Westheimer a few blocks west of Beltway 8. Leon

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"Leon" writes: A rather large restaurant that did indeed continue to  bring each course of the meal until you were ready for the next.  It was a great place.

That sounds like the place. Too bad it is gone, but time does bring change. — Lew S/A: Challenge (Under Construction in the Southland) Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for pictures There are no problems, only varying degrees of challenging opportunity

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Lew Hodgett answers: "Leon" writes: A rather large restaurant that did indeed continue to  bring each course of the meal until you were ready for the next.  It was a great place. That sounds like the place. Too bad it is gone, but time does bring change.

Yeah, and if you find too many restaurants like that, the primary change is going to be in your waistline.  DAMHIKT. Charlie Self http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/resume.html

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Angelo had about a 60" waist line.  LOL

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"Leon" writes: Lew, when was the last time you were in Houston?

I must admit, it’s been awhile, probably about 15 years if you exclude the plane transfers, walking from gate to gate in the airport. A lot has changed in the last 15 years.

I hope so, being caught in a traffic jam at 2:00AM is/was a little tough. Guess #41 Bush wouldn’t have it any other way since he retired there. <snip details of new road construction I understand your need and appreciation for a local repair station that can get you in and out in short order.  I was mostly poking fun at you.

Accepted as written. It was certainly "fun’in" on my end. BTW, there was an "all you can eat", family style fish house someplace in Houston where I ate more boiled shrimp and raw oysters one night than I thought existed in the world. Washed down of course with steins of cold beer. BTW, this was only the appetizer. When they brought the entree, fried red fish, rolled in corn meal, all I could do was drool, there was no place left to put it. Don’t remember the name, but is there a place like that still in business. — Lew S/A: Challenge (Under Construction in the Southland) Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for pictures There are no problems, only varying degrees of challenging opportunity

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Lew, when was the last time you were in Houston?  A lot has changed in the last 15 years.  There is the Loop 610 that circles the inner city and is 37 miles round trip.  The west side of that loop handles over 500,000 cars a day.  About 12 years ago we got the completed Beltway that circles the city and its round trip is 87 miles.  If you take the Highway 6, 1960 spin around the metro area the trip is 131 miles round trip.  That highway is now heavily populated.  About 7 years ago they started the Grand Parkway.  It is another 6 or so miles farther out than Highway 6, or  21 miles as the crow flies from downtown.  When it is completed a trip around it will be like going on vacation. I understand your need and appreciation for a local repair station that can get you in and out in short order.  I was mostly poking fun at you. Leon

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I bet you chose to mail it in.  I hope.

Response:

Last year we bought a Bosch Dishwasher.  Great dishwasher. Purchased it in the nearest larger town, 32 miles away, they delivered it.  Last month it started acting crazy (stayed in rinse cycle, rinsing over and over all night).  Called the Bosch appliance service center 40 miles away and they said we were out of their service area.  The next nearest is 90 miles away.  Called Bosch and they said no problem, they would contact the service center I had just called, and that they would call me right back.  They never called.   The dishwasher fixed itself, but I would never buy another Bosch appliance.  Whether they are the same company that makes saws I don’t know. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The whole purpose of this little tale is to remind you that the next time you need to purchase a power tool, Bosch service will probably be there to provide the after sales support for their products, just like they did for me. A few months ago, I had to drive all the way across town (several miles) to Precision Tool, the Bosch service center here in Tucson.  They service several brands so I brought my troubled Bosch Sander as well as a flawed PC joiner.   They smiled gleefully and proudly accepted the Porter Cable but suddenly things turned real ugly.  They caught a glimpse of some blue in the box I was carrying the tools in. "Uhh, whazzat?  No, no!  We don’t work on Bosch tools" the suddenly irate repairman said. "Well, I was referred here by Bosch, I called and verified with your clerk that you are a Bosch authorized repair center, there’s a Bosch repair center logo in your window, and I can see dozens of Bosch tools behind you on the benches" I said in a calm but confused tone. "Uhh, we only do warranty repair on Bosch tools that we or our friends own – are you friends with anyone who works here?" "No, but…" I stuttered in shock. "We’ll fix this Porter cable right up for you though – it’ll be ready next week" he said as he walked off with my joiner. After speaking with the manager, I was informed that the techs are not ‘comfortable’ with the amount of money Bosch pays for warranty repairs and so they have developed a loose "no Bosch" rule.  I was then given the option of either mailing the sander to Bosch headquarters myself, or having the sander shoved up my ass. Jeremy.

– Gerald Ross   Cochran, GA Anti-Spam Note – For direct email replies, delete the ‘ i ‘ in the reply address above.

Response:

The whole purpose of this little tale is to remind you that the next time you need to purchase a power tool, Bosch service will probably be there to provide the after sales support for their products, just like they did for me.

A few months ago, I had to drive all the way across town (several miles) to Precision Tool, the Bosch service center here in Tucson.  They service several brands so I brought my troubled Bosch Sander as well as a flawed PC joiner.   They smiled gleefully and proudly accepted the Porter Cable but suddenly things turned real ugly.  They caught a glimpse of some blue in the box I was carrying the tools in. "Uhh, whazzat?  No, no!  We don’t work on Bosch tools" the suddenly irate repairman said. "Well, I was referred here by Bosch, I called and verified with your clerk that you are a Bosch authorized repair center, there’s a Bosch repair center logo in your window, and I can see dozens of Bosch tools behind you on the benches" I said in a calm but confused tone. "Uhh, we only do warranty repair on Bosch tools that we or our friends own – are you friends with anyone who works here?" "No, but…" I stuttered in shock. "We’ll fix this Porter cable right up for you though – it’ll be ready next week" he said as he walked off with my joiner. After speaking with the manager, I was informed that the techs are not ‘comfortable’ with the amount of money Bosch pays for warranty repairs and so they have developed a loose "no Bosch" rule.  I was then given the option of either mailing the sander to Bosch headquarters myself, or having the sander shoved up my ass. Jeremy.

Response:

Yeah it is a real bear trying to decide which one to go to.

Response:

If you reread my statement I mentioned about having to go in that direction, I think going to work would qualify, but just going that far to get the saw repaired is a bit out of the way. Yes??    No?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds to me like it was excellent service.  I drive that far to work everyday. If the price was right, it sounds like a no brainer to me. Thanks for the story Lew! Rob Have to agree with Leon, that’s realllllyyyyy way over there for ya, wouldn’t be too bad if you could get paid mileage from them, it would be one thing if you had to go in that direction, but to go that far to get the saw fixed, thats another.

Response:

I guess that folks in DC are jess more careful with their tools.  I don’t think we got anywhere near the number of service centers as y’all down in toasty Texas. Renata – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah it is a real bear trying to decide which one to go to.

Response:

That or because in Texas with its mild 100+ degree heat and 95+ humidity we can work year round.  Therefore our tools see twice as much action.. LOL

Response:

In Houston we have:

much snippage… Yeah but, you’re still in Texas. Keith Bohn

Response:

"Leon" writes: You consider an 80 mile round trip being there for you?  ;~)  I would say that they were waaaaay over there for you.

I was going to say you don’t live in SoCal, but since it appears you are in Houston, my condolences. You can’t make an 80 mile trip in Houston anyplace, at least the last time I was there. If time were not of the essence, could have overnighted it UPS, had about a week turn around, the overnight back via UPS which grand total, would have been about 2 weeks, but that wasn’t going to get the job done. I would think nothing of driving 100 miles each way to get something needed to keep a project going, if that was the fastest way to get the problem solved. Bosch saved my rear end this time. I have also had similar service from DeWalt and in the past Milwaukee, but unfortunately, Milwaukee seems to have been overtaken by accountants, a sure way to destroy a business, IMHO. All of the serious tool manufacturers, at one time, recognized the value of prompt after sales support. Those that still support it deserve serious consideration when you are planning a purchase. — Lew S/A: Challenge (Under Construction in the Southland) Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for pictures There are no problems, only varying degrees of challenging opportunity

Response:

Maybe it’s like the young Marines around here from CamPen. They assume they can fix anything but end up breaking a lot more while trying. Maybe dem Texicans should stop fixing so many broken tools, too. When I did computer repair, I never stopped getting a laugh out of these guys using WordPerfect to edit their config files (autoexec.bat and config.sys, then win.ini) and saving them in WP format instead of text. Since I’m a nice guy, I spent the required 5 minutes fixing it, but I also did some cleanup work while I was there for my one hour minimum. I’d hate to run a refinishing shop for the same reason. (Renata) put this to papyrus: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -You folks in Houston oughta stop breaking things so much! Renata In Houston we have: 9 Hitachi service centers 6 Porter Cable service centers 5 Milwaukee service centers 4 Delta service centers 4 Jet service centers 3 DeWalt service centers 2 Bosch service centers In Houston, the others seem to be there for you, a bit more than Bosch. Proud owner of 2 Bosch routers.

 Have you read the new book "What Would Machiavelli Do?" http://diversify.com  Dynamic, Interactive Websites!

Response:

Snip… The whole purpose of this little tale is to remind you that the next time you need to purchase a power tool, Bosch service will probably be there to

provide the after sales support for their products, just like they did for me. You consider an 80 mile round trip being there for you?  ;~)  I would say that they were waaaaay over there for you.

Response:

Have to agree with Leon, that’s realllllyyyyy way over there for ya, wouldn’t be too bad if you could get paid mileage from them, it would be one thing if you had to go in that direction, but to go that far to get the saw fixed, thats another. Out of curiosity how much did it cost to repair the saw? then to that add gas (isn’t cheap) and wear and tear on the vehicle, may have been cheaper to buy a new saw?????? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You consider an 80 mile round trip being there for you?  ;~)  I would say that they were waaaaay over there for you.

Response:

Sounds to me like it was excellent service.  I drive that far to work everyday. If the price was right, it sounds like a no brainer to me. Thanks for the story Lew! Rob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have to agree with Leon, that’s realllllyyyyy way over there for ya, wouldn’t be too bad if you could get paid mileage from them, it would be one thing if you had to go in that direction, but to go that far to get the saw fixed, thats another. Out of curiosity how much did it cost to repair the saw? then to that add gas (isn’t cheap) and wear and tear on the vehicle, may have been cheaper to buy a new saw?????? You consider an 80 mile round trip being there for you?  ;~)  I would say that they were waaaaay over there for you.

Response:

William Houseknecht responds: Have to agree with Leon, that’s realllllyyyyy way over there for ya, wouldn’t be too bad if you could get paid mileage from them, it would be one thing if you had to go in that direction, but to go that far to get the saw fixed, thats another. Out of curiosity how much did it cost to repair the saw? then to that add gas (isn’t cheap) and wear and tear on the vehicle, may have been cheaper to buy a new saw??????

Jeez, you guys sound like Bosch should have a service center every 5 miles or so. Around here, we drive 35-40 miles to find a decent restaurant or to go to a movie.  I’m fortunate in that my office is 20 seconds away and my shop about 45, but my wife drives 20 miles to work.   Love the concept, though.  The tool company should pay maybe $.40 a mile for the buyer to take a $150 tool in for repairs.  Once they factor in the number of trips to be expected on each saw, I’d expect the price to jump to at least $175, maybe $225 if hard use is expected to create lots of wear and tear. Charlie Self http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/resume.html

Response:

In Houston we have: 9 Hitachi service centers 6 Porter Cable service centers 5 Milwaukee service centers 4 Delta service centers 4 Jet service centers 3 DeWalt service centers 2 Bosch service centers In Houston, the others seem to be there for you, a bit more than Bosch. Proud owner of 2 Bosch routers.

Response:

You folks in Houston oughta stop breaking things so much! Renata – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In Houston we have: 9 Hitachi service centers 6 Porter Cable service centers 5 Milwaukee service centers 4 Delta service centers 4 Jet service centers 3 DeWalt service centers 2 Bosch service centers In Houston, the others seem to be there for you, a bit more than Bosch. Proud owner of 2 Bosch routers.

Response:

My Bosch Saber(Jig) saw got a big Bo-Boo from being dropped on it’s nose hitting concrete from about 12 ft in the air. The blade was bent (NBD), the foot was bent but that has happened before and I beat it back into shape with a 4# drill hammer and a big vise, but this time, all did not look well. This time, something looked different, it was time for a trip to the Bosch Service Center, which is located about 40 miles SE of BFE here in SoCal. After about an hour of bumper to bumper freeway (talk about an oxymoron) traffic, arrived at the service center. Handed the counter person my saw and a handful of loose parts. It was time for a trip thru the swing doors to the tool operating room where a tech looked at things, then returned thru the swinging doors with more broken parts in hand, as well as a pronouncement that the saw had not endured any real damage other than a few broken parts. Was asked how quick I needed the saw and where I had come from to get there. When told the job site was about 30-40 miles away, the tech smiled and said something like, "Be cool, watch the demo video on the bench saw, and I’ll repair your saw as soon as I finish what I’m doing.". 20 minutes later, my saw was repaired, and I was on my way to get back into another bumper to bumper traffic snarl. The whole purpose of this little tale is to remind you that the next time you need to purchase a power tool, Bosch service will probably be there to provide the after sales support for their products, just like they did for me. — Lew S/A: Challenge (Under Construction in the Southland) Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for pictures There are no problems, only varying degrees of challenging opportunity

Response:

Question:

What methods do (small) local governments use to implement fund accounting for assets that are shared by several funds or may be used by different funds at different times?  An example might be a piece of construction equipment that is used to construct a road in the summer and a sewer in the fall.  The financial statements are supposed to show expenses by fund, and the sewer and road costs are paid out of different funds.  Transfering assets from one fund to another many times sounds like more trouble than it’s worth, but a fair allocation of the initial cost, depreciation, maintenance, proceeds of sale, etc, doesn’t appear easy either.   Al

Response:

I work with the Federal government so I can not specifically address small local governments, but the issue you describe is common.  From what I have seen, an approach could be to use a form of internal service fund which can have different names (working capital fund, internal enterprise fund, etc.). Assets, such as that piece of construction equipment, would be acquired under that fund.  Different funds/projects would be charged for use of the equipment based on depreciation and other costs and using some systematic charging mechanism (e.g., per hour or per day charge for the equipment). That way your road and sewer funds would receive shares of the equipment and related expenses based on actual usage of the equipment.  The recording of expenses for supplies by fund (when there is a supply inventory) is similar. By the way, until the pressures in the last few years to prepare auditable financial statements in the Federal government, systematic recognition of equpment expenses by different fund/project was frequently disregarded (particularly in cases similar to your example).  The primary emphasis for management in the Federal government has usually been fund controls associated with obligation (encumbrance) authority and the reporting of obligations incurred by agency funds at the time of purchase of equipment. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What methods do (small) local governments use to implement fund accounting for assets that are shared by several funds or may be used by different funds at different times?  An example might be a piece of construction equipment that is used to construct a road in the summer and a sewer in the fall.  The financial statements are supposed to show expenses by fund, and the sewer and road costs are paid out of different funds.  Transfering assets from one fund to another many times sounds like more trouble than it’s worth, but a fair allocation of the initial cost, depreciation, maintenance, proceeds of sale, etc, doesn’t appear easy either.   Al

Response:

Question:

Thank you Ken!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Charles, The simplest way to record a deposit in any accounting package is as folllows: 1.  Open a debtors account for the client. 2.  Post the deposit as a debit to the bank account and as a credit to the debtors account. 3.  Finally, post the FULL charge for the job as a debit to the debtors account and a credit to      sales. 4.  The balance, when received as payment, is posted as a debit to the bank account      and as a credit to the debtors account. Ken Russell Sydney Australia I am a photographer and receive deposits for weddings. In QuickBooks I don’t think I want to list it as a sale, but what do I list it as? Can anyone fill me in on this question. — Web Site: www.farrisphotography.com

Response:

Thank you Vernon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You have several alternatives. Simplest is just use "Receive Payment", hand-write a receipt. More complicated, is to follow the steps describe in QB Help under "Retainers" (but not "Legal Retainers" for law firms).  You may also request the same explanation by fax by calling 1-800 858-6090 and follow the instructions to request Document 1604. Another method is described at http://www.intuit.com/support/quickbooks/faqs/docs/w_downpmt1.html and http://www.intuit.com/support/quickbooks/faqs/docs/w_downpmt2.html. These are also described in the fax documents 1132 and 1133. And yet another method is at http://www.intuit.com/support/quickbooks/faqs/docs/w_downpmt3.html. I am a photographer and receive deposits for weddings. In QuickBooks I don’t think I want to list it as a sale, but what do I list it as? Can anyone fill me in on this question. — Web Site: www.farrisphotography.com

Response:

The previous posts are great but they do not recognize your liability. You should deposit the check or cash, adding a debit to you cash account, and credit a customer deposit or unearned revenue account, which should be a liability, on your balance sheet.  When the work is performed you should bill the customer, which will add to you accounts recievable and sales account, and apply the customer deposit or unearned revenue against this balance.  The remaining balance would be a recieable until you get paid. This is all assuming that you use the accrual method of accounting and not a cash basis.

This is the best answer of any respondent.  If you are not an accountant, you should have been one

Response:

With all due respect, my suggestion reduces the receivables asset by posting the deposit directly to the customer’s account.  A reduction in an asset is the same as an increase in a liability.  It also obviates the need to raise the additional entry to post the deposit from the liability account to the customers account once the job is completed.  In a practical sense, my suggestion keeps the deposit where it eventually belongs, in the customer’s account.  If this were a business taking a lot of deposits it would be easy to miss posting some to the customer’s account. Accounting theory has to be balanced with practicality. Ken Russell Sydney Australia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The previous posts are great but they do not recognize your liability. You should deposit the check or cash, adding a debit to you cash account, and credit a customer deposit or unearned revenue account, which should be a liability, on your balance sheet.  When the work is performed you should bill the customer, which will add to you accounts recievable and sales account, and apply the customer deposit or unearned revenue against this balance.  The remaining balance would be a recieable until you get paid. This is all assuming that you use the accrual method of accounting and not a cash basis. This is the best answer of any respondent.  If you are not an accountant, you should have been one

Response:

I have handled it a little different in QuickBooks. I created a liability account called Retainers and an income account called Retainers Earned. I received the deposit (retainer) into this liability account with the offset going into the appropriate bank account. As the deposit is used up, we post an entry  (using invoicing) showing the charge, with an equal-offsetting entry to zero out the charge and reduce the liability. The reason for our separate entries instead of posting directly to accounts receivable is that we would be falsely showing income that was never earned. Only when work is performed is the retainer earned. Also this allows us to show a true balance of outstanding retainer balances in one account and simple overpayments or credit balances in accounts receivable. By being able to do it this way, we can send zero invoices to customers showing when and what for is the deposit being used. Slan Leat! Phil McManus

Response:

– Ken Russell Sydney Australia

The reason for our separate entries instead of posting directly to accounts receivable is that we would be falsely showing income that was never earned. Only when work is performed is the retainer earned.

Posting to accounts receivable doesn’t affect income!  Income is generated only when you raise an invoice. Ken Russell Sydney Australia

Response:

Ken, Customer A owes me 100.00 Customer B owes me 200.00 Customer C gave me a retainer of 300.00 Under your "practicality" I would be showing no receivables asset when I am due the 300.00 from customers A and B.  Further if customer A and B were to pay me before I performed the services for customer C, I would reduce my receivable by 300.00 and would then have a credit balance of 300.00 which can not happen in an asset account. And no I did not miss my calling, I am an accountant. Thanks

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With all due respect, my suggestion reduces the receivables asset by posting the deposit directly to the customer’s account.  A reduction in an asset is the same as an increase in a liability.  It also obviates the need to raise the additional entry to post the deposit from the liability account to the customers account once the job is completed.  In a practical sense, my suggestion keeps the deposit where it eventually belongs, in the customer’s account.  If this were a business taking a lot of deposits it would be easy to miss posting some to the customer’s account. Accounting theory has to be balanced with practicality. Ken Russell Sydney Australia The previous posts are great but they do not recognize your liability. You should deposit the check or cash, adding a debit to you cash account, and credit a customer deposit or unearned revenue account, which should be a liability, on your balance sheet.  When the work is performed you should bill the customer, which will add to you accounts recievable and sales account, and apply the customer deposit or unearned revenue against this balance.  The remaining balance would be a recieable until you get paid. This is all assuming that you use the accrual method of accounting and not a cash basis. This is the best answer of any respondent.  If you are not an accountant, you should have been one

Response:

You can not have a credit balance asset.  An asset is something of value. If it were to have a credit balance at the end of the day, month, quarter, year then it would be a liability. Your return example:     Customer A buys 100.00 of "Good" A     Customer A pays 100.00 for "Good" A     Customer A decides he does not like "Good" A     Customer returns "Good" A, you charge a          restocking fee of 15 %     Customer A has a credit balance in his A/R account         of 85.00.     Unless he bought something else to replace that 85.00     of product, you owe him 85.00 at the end of the day.     This is a liability and does not belong in an asset     account.     I understand day to day accounting, that is what I do all day long.     Outside of the laziness factor there is no reason to treat a deposit, retainer, overpayment, or return as anything other than a liability if it sends a customer or account to a credit balance.  I hope this is not what you teach. Example: Suppose I am a private accountant working for XYZ corporation.  Let’s also suppose I am responsible for submitting a borrowing base certificate on a daily basis to the local bank. Why would I want an account with a credit balance on my A/R aging?  Why would I want to show a deposit or a retainer there? Regards, Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Six Pac maybe true, but the last statement is not. and would then have a credit balance of 300.00 which can not happen in an asset account. Of course you can have a negative asset. It is just immediately suspect as an error.  But anytime I owe customers for overpayment of a bill or bill payment followed by a return I will have at least a subsidiary ledger to A/R that is "negative." I thought Ken’s idea, especially for someone who wanted to keep the accounts tied to the customer and did not want to bother with unearned revenue; was quite well thought out. An accounting instructor, CPA, CMA, and used to dealing with small business people who do not care if they are CORRECT. Especially if the $$ in the bank and income statement are correct. Sue Ken, Customer A owes me 100.00 Customer B owes me 200.00 Customer C gave me a retainer of 300.00 Under your "practicality" I would be showing no receivables asset when I am due the 300.00 from customers A and B.  Further if customer A and B were to pay me before I performed the services for customer C, I would reduce my receivable by 300.00 and would then have a credit balance of 300.00 which can not happen in an asset account. And no I did not miss my calling, I am an accountant. Thanks With all due respect, my suggestion reduces the receivables asset by posting the deposit directly to the customer’s account.  A reduction in an asset is the same as an increase in a liability.  It also obviates the need to raise the additional entry to post the deposit from the liability account to the customers account once the job is completed.  In a practical sense, my suggestion keeps the deposit where it eventually belongs, in the customer’s account.  If this were a business taking a lot of deposits it would be easy to miss posting some to the customer’s account. Accounting theory has to be balanced with practicality. Ken Russell Sydney Australia The previous posts are great but they do not recognize your liability. You should deposit the check or cash, adding a debit to you cash account, and credit a customer deposit or unearned revenue account, which should be a liability, on your balance sheet.  When the work is performed you should bill the customer, which will add to you accounts recievable and sales account, and apply the customer deposit or unearned revenue against this balance.  The remaining balance would be a recieable until you get paid. This is all assuming that you use the accrual method of accounting and not a cash basis. This is the best answer of any respondent.  If you are not an accountant, you should have been one

Response:

Six Pac maybe true, but the last statement is not. and would then have a credit balance of 300.00 which can not happen in an asset account.

Of course you can have a negative asset. It is just immediately suspect as an error.  But anytime I owe customers for overpayment of a bill or bill payment followed by a return I will have at least a subsidiary ledger to A/R that is "negative." I thought Ken’s idea, especially for someone who wanted to keep the accounts tied to the customer and did not want to bother with unearned revenue; was quite well thought out. An accounting instructor, CPA, CMA, and used to dealing with small business people who do not care if they are CORRECT. Especially if the $$ in the bank and income statement are correct. Sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken, Customer A owes me 100.00 Customer B owes me 200.00 Customer C gave me a retainer of 300.00 Under your "practicality" I would be showing no receivables asset when I am due the 300.00 from customers A and B.  Further if customer A and B were to pay me before I performed the services for customer C, I would reduce my receivable by 300.00 and would then have a credit balance of 300.00 which can not happen in an asset account. And no I did not miss my calling, I am an accountant. Thanks With all due respect, my suggestion reduces the receivables asset by posting the deposit directly to the customer’s account.  A reduction in an asset is the same as an increase in a liability.  It also obviates the need to raise the additional entry to post the deposit from the liability account to the customers account once the job is completed.  In a practical sense, my suggestion keeps the deposit where it eventually belongs, in the customer’s account.  If this were a business taking a lot of deposits it would be easy to miss posting some to the customer’s account. Accounting theory has to be balanced with practicality. Ken Russell Sydney Australia The previous posts are great but they do not recognize your liability. You should deposit the check or cash, adding a debit to you cash account, and credit a customer deposit or unearned revenue account, which should be a liability, on your balance sheet.  When the work is performed you should bill the customer, which will add to you accounts recievable and sales account, and apply the customer deposit or unearned revenue against this balance.  The remaining balance would be a recieable until you get paid. This is all assuming that you use the accrual method of accounting and not a cash basis. This is the best answer of any respondent.  If you are not an accountant, you should have been one

Response:

In the real world it is quite common for some customer’s Receivable accounts to go into credit.  While this is not a problem in the day to day running of the business, it does need to be adjusted in the year end accounts by transferring the credit balances to Payables. I never suggested you were not an accountant!  You and just approach things differently.  I guess over forty years working as an accountant in various roles (including Company Treasurer for a multi-national) has made me more pragmatic than some. Regards, Ken Russell Sydney Australia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken, Customer A owes me 100.00 Customer B owes me 200.00 Customer C gave me a retainer of 300.00 Under your "practicality" I would be showing no receivables asset when I am due the 300.00 from customers A and B.  Further if customer A and B were to pay me before I performed the services for customer C, I would reduce my receivable by 300.00 and would then have a credit balance of 300.00 which can not happen in an asset account. And no I did not miss my calling, I am an accountant. Thanks With all due respect, my suggestion reduces the receivables asset by posting the deposit directly to the customer’s account.  A reduction in an asset is the same as an increase in a liability.  It also obviates the need to raise the additional entry to post the deposit from the liability account to the customers account once the job is completed.  In a practical sense, my suggestion keeps the deposit where it eventually belongs, in the customer’s account.  If this were a business taking a lot of deposits it would be easy to miss posting some to the customer’s account. Accounting theory has to be balanced with practicality. Ken Russell Sydney Australia The previous posts are great but they do not recognize your liability. You should deposit the check or cash, adding a debit to you cash account, and credit a customer deposit or unearned revenue account, which should be a liability, on your balance sheet.  When the work is performed you should bill the customer, which will add to you accounts recievable and sales account, and apply the customer deposit or unearned revenue against this balance.  The remaining balance would be a recieable until you get paid. This is all assuming that you use the accrual method of accounting and not a cash basis. This is the best answer of any respondent.  If you are not an accountant, you should have been one

Response:

The previous posts are great but they do not recognize your liability. You should deposit the check or cash, adding a debit to you cash account, and credit a customer deposit or unearned revenue account, which should be a liability, on your balance sheet.  When the work is performed you should bill the customer, which will add to you accounts recievable and sales account, and apply the customer deposit or unearned revenue against this balance.  The remaining balance would be a recieable until you get paid. This is all assuming that you use the accrual method of accounting and not a cash basis. Good luck Bob When you complete your work, you should bill you

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a photographer and receive deposits for weddings. In QuickBooks I don’t think I want to list it as a sale, but what do I list it as? Can anyone fill me in on this question. — Web Site: www.farrisphotography.com

Response:

Hi Charles, The simplest way to record a deposit in any accounting package is as folllows: 1.  Open a debtors account for the client. 2.  Post the deposit as a debit to the bank account and as a credit to the debtors account. 3.  Finally, post the FULL charge for the job as a debit to the debtors account and a credit to      sales. 4.  The balance, when received as payment, is posted as a debit to the bank account      and as a credit to the debtors account. Ken Russell Sydney Australia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a photographer and receive deposits for weddings. In QuickBooks I don’t think I want to list it as a sale, but what do I list it as? Can anyone fill me in on this question. — Web Site: www.farrisphotography.com

Response:

You have several alternatives. Simplest is just use "Receive Payment", hand-write a receipt. More complicated, is to follow the steps describe in QB Help under "Retainers" (but not "Legal Retainers" for law firms).  You may also request the same explanation by fax by calling 1-800 858-6090 and follow the instructions to request Document 1604. Another method is described at http://www.intuit.com/support/quickbooks/faqs/docs/w_downpmt1.html and http://www.intuit.com/support/quickbooks/faqs/docs/w_downpmt2.html. These are also described in the fax documents 1132 and 1133. And yet another method is at http://www.intuit.com/support/quickbooks/faqs/docs/w_downpmt3.html.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a photographer and receive deposits for weddings. In QuickBooks I don’t think I want to list it as a sale, but what do I list it as? Can anyone fill me in on this question. — Web Site: www.farrisphotography.com

Response:

I am a photographer and receive deposits for weddings. In QuickBooks I don’t think I want to list it as a sale, but what do I list it as? Can anyone fill me in on this question. — Web Site: www.farrisphotography.com

Response:

Question:

Exactly !!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to offer an explanation on this issue. Feel free to object. I believe that the GCWR is basically a value that provides a measure of a vehicles ability to move weight, acceptably. The GCWR is primarily a function of engine and rear end gear ratio. I don’t have a Ford brochure at my disposal, but using a GMC/Chevy brochure reveals the following information. In all GM truck brochures that I have seen since 1994, they provide a GCWR table. The only variables in this table are engine choice and rear end gear ratio. Picking an engine and gear ratio specifies a particular GCWR value. I also believe that the GVWR is basically a value that provides a measure of a vehicles chassis capability to hold weight (basic vehicle plus cargo). The GVWR will be largely determined by such things as axles, springs, wheels, tires and I suppose chassis construction. Therefore, I don’t see any conflict between the specifications for the Ford F250 and F350 GCWR and GVWR specifications. In other words the trailer towing capability is determined not by either weight rating individually, but by both weight ratings. It seems very reasonable to me that the F350 can carry a heavier hitch weight due to it’s larger GVWR. The fact that both(F250 and F350) have the same GCWR is sort of irrelevant. Possible trailering of large fifth wheels with heavy pin weights may well be within the GCWR of either the F250 or F350, but may easily be eliminated by the lower GVWR of the F250. Bob Commonsense tells me the F350 should handle a bigger rig yet, it’s rated the same as the F250.  Can anyone explain why the GCWR is the same for both vehicles? Mark

Response:

It is possible that I will buy a trailer in the future that will put my truck over its GVW.  If that happens, I intend to add air springs and get the truck re certified to a higher GVW.

So you are saying that your truck’s springs are the limiting factor in its GVWR – take a look at some specs on different classes of trucks; you’ll find that the GVWR is based on a huge number of variables, such as wheels, tires, springs, chassis, axles, drive shafts, U joints, brakes, cooling system. engine, warranty records, marketing concerns, and legal restrictions.  Simply adding air bags to anF150 does not turn it into an F250. Whe you buy your new trailer, either match it to your current truck or replace your truck. — Alan Hepburn  (Email: Alan at Hepburn dot com) "…But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

Response:

You TOTALLY missed the point, Will !!!

You may be right. I sometimes do miss the point.  BTW more than two exclamation points assisted by caps is considered shrieking. <hype snipped  the frame, brakes, axles, front suspension, engine, transmission, tires, rims, differential, driveshaft etc ARE ALL THE SAME.  THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE SPRINGS !!!!  

I am no Ford expert, and I feel sure we will hear from some folks that are.  But if you are saying what you APPEAR to be saying, why do I get the impression that the difference in price oughta be about $50? Is this REALLY true?   Will KD3XR

Response:

See my comments below. You TOTALLY missed the point, Will !!! You may be right. I sometimes do miss the point.  BTW more than two exclamation points assisted by caps is considered shrieking.

Oh !  My net edicate is not always everything it should be ! <hype snipped  the frame, brakes, axles, front suspension, engine, transmission, tires, rims, differential, driveshaft etc ARE ALL THE SAME.  THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE SPRINGS !!!!   I am no Ford expert, and I feel sure we will hear from some folks that are.  But if you are saying what you APPEAR to be saying, why do I get the impression that the difference in price oughta be about $50? Is this REALLY true?  

I don’t recall what the price difference is, but I know that it is not much.  I think Ford has some liability issues that get charged in for a higher GVW truck.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Will KD3XR

Response:

I said it once and I will say it again … EVERYTHING is the same between an F250 and an F350 EXCEPT the springs.  I hate the F350 springs because they make the truck so stiff that it rides terrible.  Let me repeat: the frame, brakes, axles, front suspension, engine, transmission, tires, rims, differential, driveshaft etc ARE ALL THE SAME.  THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE SPRINGS !  The two trucks even have the same Gross Combination Weight Rating. (GVWR.) An F250 with air helpers rides MUCH better empty. BTW: I wish Ford sold these trucks with air suspension and I don’t understand why they don’t.  The high/ rougher ride is one of the biggest trade offs of these trucks over a "regular" half ton. (Although the ride in an F250 is pretty good …) Kim     – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is possible that I will buy a trailer in the future that will put my truck over its GVW.  If that happens, I intend to add air springs and get the truck re certified to a higher GVW. So you are saying that your truck’s springs are the limiting factor in its GVWR – take a look at some specs on different classes of trucks; you’ll find that the GVWR is based on a huge number of variables, such as wheels, tires, springs, chassis, axles, drive shafts, U joints, brakes, cooling system. engine, warranty records, marketing concerns, and legal restrictions.  Simply adding air bags to anF150 does not turn it into an F250. Whe you buy your new trailer, either match it to your current truck or replace your truck. — Alan Hepburn  (Email: Alan at Hepburn dot com) "…But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

Response:

According to the Kelly Blue Book web site: F250 XLT 2WD  is $17,993 (invoice) and $20,445 (list) F350 XLT 2WD  is $18,848 (invoice) and $21,450 (list) Pretty expensive just for springs.  I think there is a bigger difference between the two than just springs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You TOTALLY missed the point, Will !!! You may be right. I sometimes do miss the point.  BTW more than two exclamation points assisted by caps is considered shrieking. <hype snipped  the frame, brakes, axles, front suspension, engine, transmission, tires, rims, differential, driveshaft etc ARE ALL THE SAME.  THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE SPRINGS !!!! I am no Ford expert, and I feel sure we will hear from some folks that are.  But if you are saying what you APPEAR to be saying, why do I get the impression that the difference in price oughta be about $50? Is this REALLY true? Will KD3XR

Response:

Bob, Thanks for the explanation.  It makes sense to me.  I’ve been lurking in this NG for a while and the one reoccurring theme is, do not exceed the capability of the tow vehicle.  I’m interested in buying a 5th wheel so I want to ensure I buy the appropriate truck.  The problem is you start talking about a 30 footer and the weight adds up quick.  Keeping the weight under the 75% of GCWR and Max. loaded trailer weight guideline gets difficult.

One solution:  1999 Ford F450 – maximum loaded trailer weight as high as 18,800 pounds! — Alan Hepburn  (Email: Alan at Hepburn dot com) "…But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

Response:

"I don’t recall what the price difference is, but I know that it is not much.  I think Ford has some liability issues that get charged in for a higher GVW truck." The difference is about $800. Another difference is that here in Minnesota a F250 is licensed as a car, or for my F250 that amounted to $341.00 per year. A F350 is licensed as a "truck" which costs $10 per month ($120 annually). And yes, the according to the dealer (Boyer Ford Truck), where I purchased mine yesterday, the difference between the 250 and the 350 is springs and "certification" of components (mainly axles). Pat Caulfield New owner of a V10, crew cab, short box, 4×4.

Response:

Alan, I saw in another thread you just bought an F450.  Good luck with it.  Unfortunately whatever I buy has to double as a daily driver.  I’d prefer to buy the F250 for that reason. Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bob, Thanks for the explanation.  It makes sense to me.  I’ve been lurking in this NG for a while and the one reoccurring theme is, do not exceed the capability of the tow vehicle.  I’m interested in buying a 5th wheel so I want to ensure I buy the appropriate truck.  The problem is you start talking about a 30 footer and the weight adds up quick.  Keeping the weight under the 75% of GCWR and Max. loaded trailer weight guideline gets difficult. One solution:  1999 Ford F450 – maximum loaded trailer weight as high as 18,800 pounds! — Alan Hepburn  (Email: Alan at Hepburn dot com) "…But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

Response:

I said it once and I will say it again … EVERYTHING is the same between an F250 and an F350 EXCEPT the springs.  I hate the F350 springs because they make the truck so stiff that it rides terrible.  Let me repeat: the frame, brakes, axles, front suspension, engine, transmission, tires, rims, differential, driveshaft etc ARE ALL THE SAME.  THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE SPRINGS !  

You may, if you wish, write this daily for a month or more. Unlike many people, I am not one to start believing something just because it is shouted repeatedly.   If you’re right, fine. But simply repeating yourself makes no points. I was sorta hoping to hear from a credible source that Ford is guilty of selling an F-350 that actually is merely an F-250 with stiff springs. Hey, maybe it’s true – but I am not yet convinced. Will KD3XR

Response:

Norm: The way certification was explained to me is that the axle manufacturer would now certify the axle to a higher rating for warrently, liability, etc.reasons. Pat Caulfield – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is consistant with the Ford truck brochure, page 41. Suspension – Front Suspension – Rear The Front GAWR on the 250 is indeed 4850 lbs – but the Rear GAWR is only 4970 lbs. Unless there is a different part number for the axles, etc, I don’t know what exactly the "certification" means (not being sarcastic – I really don’t know). It still seems like a "marketing"  exercise to me. Norm <snip And yes, the according to the dealer (Boyer Ford Truck), where I purchased mine yesterday, the difference between the 250 and the 350 is springs and "certification" of components (mainly axles). Pat Caulfield New owner of a V10, crew cab, short box, 4×4.

Response:

Thanks for the verification ! Kim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "I don’t recall what the price difference is, but I know that it is not much.  I think Ford has some liability issues that get charged in for a higher GVW truck." The difference is about $800. Another difference is that here in Minnesota a F250 is licensed as a car, or for my F250 that amounted to $341.00 per year. A F350 is licensed as a "truck" which costs $10 per month ($120 annually). And yes, the according to the dealer (Boyer Ford Truck), where I purchased mine yesterday, the difference between the 250 and the 350 is springs and "certification" of components (mainly axles). Pat Caulfield New owner of a V10, crew cab, short box, 4×4.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You TOTALLY missed the point, Will !!! EVERYTHING is the same between an F250 and an F350 EXCEPT the springs.  I hate the F350 springs because they make the truck so stiff that it rides terrible.  Let me repeat: the frame, brakes, axles, front suspension, engine, transmission, tires, rims, differential, driveshaft etc ARE ALL THE SAME.  THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE SPRINGS !!!!  The two trucks even have the same Gross Combination Weight Rating. (GVWR.) An F250 with air helpers rides MUCH better empty. BTW: I wish Ford sold these trucks with air suspension and I don’t understand why they don’t.  The high/ rougher ride is one of the biggest trade offs of these trucks over a "regular" half ton. (Although the ride in an F250 is pretty good …)

It’s been my experience that high GVWR and soft suspension are mutually exclusive… — Alan Hepburn  (Email: Alan at Hepburn dot com) "…But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

Response:

Alan, I saw in another thread you just bought an F450.  Good luck with it.  Unfortunately whatever I buy has to double as a daily driver.  I’d prefer to buy the F250 for that reason.

Thanks, Mark … my F450 will be a daily driver, but then I’ve not owned a car in over 20 years so I’m not concerned about a truck that drives like a truck! Hey I spent 2 years driving "deuce-and-a-halfs" in the Army – ANYTHING feels soft after that! — Alan Hepburn  (Email: Alan at Hepburn dot com) "…But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

– Alan Hepburn  (Email: Alan at Hepburn dot com) "…But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

Response:

You TOTALLY missed the point, Will !!! EVERYTHING is the same between an F250 and an F350 EXCEPT the springs.  I hate the F350 springs because they make the truck so stiff that it rides terrible.  Let me repeat: the frame, brakes, axles, front suspension, engine, transmission, tires, rims, differential, driveshaft etc ARE ALL THE SAME.  THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE SPRINGS !!!!  The two trucks even have the same Gross Combination Weight Rating. (GVWR.)

Where did you get this information? Mark       ‘30 Ford Model ‘A’                            ’98 Ford Taurus               ‘59 Edsel Corsair                       ‘99 Mercury Cougar               ‘94 Ford Club Wagon w/7.3L Hypermax Turbo Diesel               ‘98 SunnyBrook 33FKDS Travel Trailer

Response:

I think that my local highway department will do this…  I KNOW that they will do it for a heavy truck … Kim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is possible that I will buy a trailer in the future that will put my truck over its GVW.  If that happens, I intend to add air springs and get the truck re certified to a higher GVW. Just curious,  who do you think will "re-certify" a truck with aftermarket add ons. Second question,  what will the value of that "re-certification" be? Erich inquiring minds want to know

Response:

The problem with the F350 are springs that are plain old too stiff !!! The F250/F350 trucks already have a "velvet shackle" type connector on the front of the rear leaf springs. Don’t get me wrong here, Ford has done a fairly good job of the design, but there are certain limitations when one wants to build a truck that will haul 3700 lbs in the bed: empty ride suffers.  The best way around this limitation is to equip the truck with air springs because the spring rate changes with changes in air pressure.  Thus, when the truck is empty, decrease the air pressure for a GREAT ride and when the truck is loaded, increase the pressure to handle the load. Kim   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Though I haven’t tried them I’ve read that "Velvet Shackles" can smooth out the ride. Dig around in the web site below and you can find out some info on them. There are apparently more differences between the F250 and F350 than easily meet the eye.  Check out and search the following BBS run by Jason Lester: The Ford Diesel Web site Gordon Santa Rosa, CA Hi people. I have a 1999 4×2 F250 crew cab with the Power Stroke Diesel and the 6 speed.  The truck weighs about 6200 lbs empty, without fuel.  The truck does NOT have the trailer towing package. These trucks are quite stiffly sprung.  With our 32′ 5th wheel attached and everything loaded in, the truck is near its GVW and handles quite nicely at that weight.  I do not think it is necessary to add a big allowance to your expected weight when specing one of these trucks as they, unlike some other trucks on the market, are built to be operated safely at their maximum GVW. I too was trying to decide whether or not to buy an F350.  The ONLY difference between an F250 and an F350 from what I can tell, are the springs.  As far as I can tell the frame, brakes, axles, steering, etc is identical. It is possible that I will buy a trailer in the future that will put my truck over its GVW.  If that happens, I intend to add air springs and get the truck re certified to a higher GVW. An F350 rides quite a bit rougher due to stiffer springs, a penalty that I did not want for using the truck as my daily driver. Just my $0.02 Kim According to the ford truck brochure (page 41) the Ford SD 250 and 350 (SRW) 2×4 specify the same ratings for axle (front and rear), springs, brakes, wheels, etc. Why then is the 250 rated at 8800GVWR and the 350 at 9900GVWR? I am beginning to think this is so specified for marketing reasons – who would pay more for a 350 if a 250 will do? I agree with Will that for a safe and comfortable towing experience, de-rating the max specs is a sensible exercise – however I am finding that with acceptable (de-rated) tongue weight loads, the corresponding trailer weight loads amounts to reduction of 40 to 50% of max. Any comments or data appreciated….. Norm ‘99 SD PSD LB CC AT TT ABS

Response:

You TOTALLY missed the point, Will !!! EVERYTHING is the same between an F250 and an F350 EXCEPT the springs.  I hate the F350 springs because they make the truck so stiff that it rides terrible.  Let me repeat: the frame, brakes, axles, front suspension, engine, transmission, tires, rims, differential, driveshaft etc ARE ALL THE SAME.  THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE SPRINGS !!!!  The two trucks even have the same Gross Combination Weight Rating. (GVWR.) An F250 with air helpers rides MUCH better empty. BTW: I wish Ford sold these trucks with air suspension and I don’t understand why they don’t.  The high/ rougher ride is one of the biggest trade offs of these trucks over a "regular" half ton. (Although the ride in an F250 is pretty good …) Kim     – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is possible that I will buy a trailer in the future that will put my truck over its GVW.  If that happens, I intend to add air springs and get the truck re certified to a higher GVW. If air springs would qualify your truck for "recertification", you kin bet yer bippy Ford would be happy to sell you one that way.  But they don’t. If you find some guy who claims he can "recertify" on that basis, you will probably have to wait in line, because he will be too busy selling inspection stickers for owner installation. If you get my drift.  (In my state you are supposed to AT LEAST take the windshield in for inspection!)* Understand this: while ratings are somewhat political, in that they reflect some mysterious agreements between engineering, accounting and marketing interests within the maker’s organization, they are NOT simply based on what the truck will hold up.  Hey, you can get a li’l ole rice-burner truck to hold up a 40′ fiver if you put blocks of wood between the frame & axle! The ratings consider MANY factors beyond mere arbitrary political questions.  They consider brakes, engine, tires, transmissions, cooling systems, etc ad nauseum. My dad used to say you cannot make a silk purse outa a sow’s ear.  My version: you can’t increase the real capacity of a truck with helper springs. *For the humor impaired, the reference is to black market vehicle safety inspections, conducted in the dark of night by scofflaws. Will KD3XR

Response:

According to the ford truck brochure (page 41) the Ford SD 250 and 350 (SRW) 2×4 specify the same ratings for axle (front and rear), springs, brakes, wheels, etc. Why then is the 250 rated at 8800GVWR and the 350 at 9900GVWR? I am beginning to think this is so specified for marketing reasons – who would pay more for a 350 if a 250 will do? I agree with Will that for a safe and comfortable towing experience, de-rating the max specs is a sensible exercise – however I am finding that with acceptable (de-rated) tongue weight loads, the corresponding trailer weight loads amounts to reduction of 40 to 50% of max. Any comments or data appreciated….. Norm ‘99 SD PSD LB CC AT TT ABS

Response:

Hi people. I have a 1999 4×2 F250 crew cab with the Power Stroke Diesel and the 6 speed.  The truck weighs about 6200 lbs empty, without fuel.  The truck does NOT have the trailer towing package.   These trucks are quite stiffly sprung.  With our 32′ 5th wheel attached and everything loaded in, the truck is near its GVW and handles quite nicely at that weight.  I do not think it is necessary to add a big allowance to your expected weight when specing one of these trucks as they, unlike some other trucks on the market, are built to be operated safely at their maximum GVW. I too was trying to decide whether or not to buy an F350.  The ONLY difference between an F250 and an F350 from what I can tell, are the springs.  As far as I can tell the frame, brakes, axles, steering, etc is identical.   It is possible that I will buy a trailer in the future that will put my truck over its GVW.  If that happens, I intend to add air springs and get the truck re certified to a higher GVW. An F350 rides quite a bit rougher due to stiffer springs, a penalty that I did not want for using the truck as my daily driver. Just my $0.02 Kim       – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – According to the ford truck brochure (page 41) the Ford SD 250 and 350 (SRW) 2×4 specify the same ratings for axle (front and rear), springs, brakes, wheels, etc. Why then is the 250 rated at 8800GVWR and the 350 at 9900GVWR? I am beginning to think this is so specified for marketing reasons – who would pay more for a 350 if a 250 will do? I agree with Will that for a safe and comfortable towing experience, de-rating the max specs is a sensible exercise – however I am finding that with acceptable (de-rated) tongue weight loads, the corresponding trailer weight loads amounts to reduction of 40 to 50% of max. Any comments or data appreciated….. Norm ‘99 SD PSD LB CC AT TT ABS

Response:

Good questions.  I am also considering buying a F250 SD or F350 SD.  The GVWR for the 250 SD PSD SRW is 8,800lbs. and the 350 SD PSD DRW is 11,200lbs. but, the GCWR is the same for both at 20,000lbs.  Commonsense tells me the F350 should handle a bigger rig yet, it’s rated the same as the F250.  Can anyone explain why the GCWR is the same for both vehicles? Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – According to the ford truck brochure (page 41) the Ford SD 250 and 350 (SRW) 2×4 specify the same ratings for axle (front and rear), springs, brakes, wheels, etc. Why then is the 250 rated at 8800GVWR and the 350 at 9900GVWR? I am beginning to think this is so specified for marketing reasons – who would pay more for a 350 if a 250 will do? I agree with Will that for a safe and comfortable towing experience, de-rating the max specs is a sensible exercise – however I am finding that with acceptable (de-rated) tongue weight loads, the corresponding trailer weight loads amounts to reduction of 40 to 50% of max. Any comments or data appreciated….. Norm ‘99 SD PSD LB CC AT TT ABS

Response:

It is possible that I will buy a trailer in the future that will put my truck over its GVW.  If that happens, I intend to add air springs and get the truck re certified to a higher GVW.

Just curious,  who do you think will "re-certify" a truck with aftermarket add ons. Second question,  what will the value of that "re-certification" be? Erich inquiring minds want to know

Response:

I would like to offer an explanation on this issue. Feel free to object. I believe that the GCWR is basically a value that provides a measure of a vehicles ability to move weight, acceptably. The GCWR is primarily a function of engine and rear end gear ratio. I don’t have a Ford brochure at my disposal, but using a GMC/Chevy brochure reveals the following information. In all GM truck brochures that I have seen since 1994, they provide a GCWR table. The only variables in this table are engine choice and rear end gear ratio. Picking an engine and gear ratio specifies a particular GCWR value. I also believe that the GVWR is basically a value that provides a measure of a vehicles chassis capability to hold weight (basic vehicle plus cargo). The GVWR will be largely determined by such things as axles, springs, wheels, tires and I suppose chassis construction. Therefore, I don’t see any conflict between the specifications for the Ford F250 and F350 GCWR and GVWR specifications. In other words the trailer towing capability is determined not by either weight rating individually, but by both weight ratings. It seems very reasonable to me that the F350 can carry a heavier hitch weight due to it’s larger GVWR. The fact that both(F250 and F350) have the same GCWR is sort of irrelevant. Possible trailering of large fifth wheels with heavy pin weights may well be within the GCWR of either the F250 or F350, but may easily be eliminated by the lower GVWR of the F250. Bob

Commonsense – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -tells me the F350 should handle a bigger rig yet, it’s rated the same as the F250.  Can anyone explain why the GCWR is the same for both vehicles? Mark

Response:

It is possible that I will buy a trailer in the future that will put my truck over its GVW.  If that happens, I intend to add air springs and get the truck re certified to a higher GVW.

If air springs would qualify your truck for "recertification", you kin bet yer bippy Ford would be happy to sell you one that way.  But they don’t. If you find some guy who claims he can "recertify" on that basis, you will probably have to wait in line, because he will be too busy selling inspection stickers for owner installation. If you get my drift.  (In my state you are supposed to AT LEAST take the windshield in for inspection!)* Understand this: while ratings are somewhat political, in that they reflect some mysterious agreements between engineering, accounting and marketing interests within the maker’s organization, they are NOT simply based on what the truck will hold up.  Hey, you can get a li’l ole rice-burner truck to hold up a 40′ fiver if you put blocks of wood between the frame & axle! The ratings consider MANY factors beyond mere arbitrary political questions.  They consider brakes, engine, tires, transmissions, cooling systems, etc ad nauseum. My dad used to say you cannot make a silk purse outa a sow’s ear.  My version: you can’t increase the real capacity of a truck with helper springs. *For the humor impaired, the reference is to black market vehicle safety inspections, conducted in the dark of night by scofflaws. Will KD3XR

Response:

Bob, Thanks for the explanation.  It makes sense to me.  I’ve been lurking in this NG for a while and the one reoccurring theme is, do not exceed the capability of the tow vehicle.  I’m interested in buying a 5th wheel so I want to ensure I buy the appropriate truck.  The problem is you start talking about a 30 footer and the weight adds up quick.  Keeping the weight under the 75% of GCWR and Max. loaded trailer weight guideline gets difficult. Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to offer an explanation on this issue. Feel free to object. I believe that the GCWR is basically a value that provides a measure of a vehicles ability to move weight, acceptably. The GCWR is primarily a function of engine and rear end gear ratio. I don’t have a Ford brochure at my disposal, but using a GMC/Chevy brochure reveals the following information. In all GM truck brochures that I have seen since 1994, they provide a GCWR table. The only variables in this table are engine choice and rear end gear ratio. Picking an engine and gear ratio specifies a particular GCWR value. I also believe that the GVWR is basically a value that provides a measure of a vehicles chassis capability to hold weight (basic vehicle plus cargo). The GVWR will be largely determined by such things as axles, springs, wheels, tires and I suppose chassis construction. Therefore, I don’t see any conflict between the specifications for the Ford F250 and F350 GCWR and GVWR specifications. In other words the trailer towing capability is determined not by either weight rating individually, but by both weight ratings. It seems very reasonable to me that the F350 can carry a heavier hitch weight due to it’s larger GVWR. The fact that both(F250 and F350) have the same GCWR is sort of irrelevant. Possible trailering of large fifth wheels with heavy pin weights may well be within the GCWR of either the F250 or F350, but may easily be eliminated by the lower GVWR of the F250. Bob Commonsense tells me the F350 should handle a bigger rig yet, it’s rated the same as the F250.  Can anyone explain why the GCWR is the same for both vehicles? Mark

Response:

Question:

Anyways, Don has done an article February 1999 issue, comparing Accounting Systems for VB developers.   Don is a regular and longtime contributor to the AOVB Advisor, whose editor is now Ken Getz, afaics. All of these people are fairly knowledgeable about the Microsoft family of software. I’ve been reading every issue of AOVB (and predecessors) for the last 5 years, and Visual Basic Programmers Journal. These are tops, for focus articles and readable explanations, to solve particular programming problems.  I make much of my living from VB. But at times these are somewhat ridiculous in their total lack of acknowledgement of other products and technologies, that might be better than VB and Microsoft COM.  Don’s article July 1998 praised the new Visual Interdev to heaven, as if it were the tool of choice to develop internet applications which is CERTAINLY and MANIFESTLY is not.  I doubt if MS VS is even in the top 10 tools for website development, other than "intranets", serving Windows machines on LANs.  Microsoft Visual J++ is down around number 40 or 50 I think…. Anyways, Don has now gone and done this Accounting Systems comparison, for VB developers…. Predictably, he has noticed Solomon IV and Great Plains (where you been, Don?) and dedicated 6 pages of text to reviewing their VBA-like tools.  Never a mention that these software cost at least $15,000 and most often $30,000 to $100,000 to implement…. or the fact that their feature set is so extensive, nobody but an experienced Solomon or GP VAR can really do them justice.   Also no mention by Don Kiely that Solomon, of Findlay Ohio, only a few months ago, finally released their 32-bit version very, very late and still lacking key modules such as project cost.  Or the fact they offer the same software and feature set on Scalable SQL, a non-microsoft client-server database engine that runs without requiring regular, manual maintenance by DBAs. I’m particularly aggrieved at the superficial 2-page summary of other, realistically-priced accounting software.  For example, the highly significant Peachtree Office Accounting gets these words:   "lets small businesses share their accounting    information with Microsoft Office. has an open    architecture, so it can integrate easily with Office." POA is way ahead of all the other software on the two page list: it exposes thousands of properties, methods and events to any Access, Excel, or VB programmer right in the microsoft object browser, and they really work.  (The marketing people at Peachtree Software should all be SACKED for bungling their communication and outreach to the developer community) There are 10 or 15 groovy MS Access accounting software listed, most of which will need, ahem, some reworking, when Microsoft Windows 2000 and Office 2000 are released without the Jet engine…. Any number of solid, easy solutions like Peachtree 6 on PAWet, are overlooked… and whole categories like CYMA IV on Pervasive.SQL, a brilliant package at $295/module having solid developer kits on the DBMS, are also omitted.   Any of these would ace Solomon or GP on the typical small business/VB projects I’ve seen. You have to wonder, what’s the use of another Solomon or GP review? There have been at least 100 reviews since they laid the keel for these battlships in 1993 and 1994… Don Kiely get busy and tell us what’s the platform for TOMORROW? You’re telling us, the future is greater and greater feature depth –a monolithic software with 26 levels of menu ten layers deep.   I’m telling you, you missed the big picture, strategically. Most small businesses don’t crucially need the feature depth. We can’t afford $30,000 and anyways.  10 million small businesses need some real obvious improvements in network architecture, electronic commerce, and integration with the other software on our disks. The US economy will have $1.3 trillion of middlemen and distribution layers ripped out of it in the next 5 years by B2B integration, and B2C commerce.  Small businesses, in certain industries, know we are going to get the shit kicked out of us, if we don’t have a capacity to deal in the new HTTP/EDI/XML marketplace. For many small businesses, their losses will be far less if they delete c:Qbooksw*.*, reach out their hand, turn off their PC and telephone an aggressive local ISP with E-commerce hosting, to execute their sales, contact database *and general ledger.* * Todd F. Boyle CPA           www.isomedia.com/homes/tboyle * International Accounting Services LLC  tboyle rosehill dotnet * 9745-128th Av NE, Kirkland WA 98033       (425) 827-3107

Response:

Apparently, I’m looking in the wrong magazine.  I thought you were referring to Microsoft Office and Visual Basic for Applications Developer (published by Informant Group). Can you direct me where to find the magazine you are discussing?

Here it is: http://www.advisor.com/ * Todd F. Boyle CPA       www.isomedia.com/homes/tboyle/EcommAcctg.htm * International Accounting Services LLC    tboyle at rosehill dot net * 9745-128th Av NE, Kirkland WA 98033       (425) 827-3107

Response:

Apparently, I’m looking in the wrong magazine.  I thought you were referring to Microsoft Office and Visual Basic for Applications Developer (published by Informant Group). Can you direct me where to find the magazine you are discussing? Thanks, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyways, Don has done an article February 1999 issue, comparing Accounting Systems for VB developers.   Don is a regular and longtime contributor to the AOVB Advisor, whose editor is now Ken Getz, afaics. All of these people are fairly knowledgeable about the Microsoft family of software. I’ve been reading every issue of AOVB (and predecessors) for the last 5 years, and Visual Basic Programmers Journal. These are tops, for focus articles and readable explanations, to solve particular programming problems.  I make much of my living from VB. But at times these are somewhat ridiculous in their total lack of acknowledgement of other products and technologies, that might be better than VB and Microsoft COM.  Don’s article July 1998 praised the new Visual Interdev to heaven, as if it were the tool of choice to develop internet applications which is CERTAINLY and MANIFESTLY is not.  I doubt if MS VS is even in the top 10 tools for website development, other than "intranets", serving Windows machines on LANs.  Microsoft Visual J++ is down around number 40 or 50 I think…. Anyways, Don has now gone and done this Accounting Systems comparison, for VB developers…. Predictably, he has noticed Solomon IV and Great Plains (where you been, Don?) and dedicated 6 pages of text to reviewing their VBA-like tools.  Never a mention that these software cost at least $15,000 and most often $30,000 to $100,000 to implement…. or the fact that their feature set is so extensive, nobody but an experienced Solomon or GP VAR can really do them justice.   Also no mention by Don Kiely that Solomon, of Findlay Ohio, only a few months ago, finally released their 32-bit version very, very late and still lacking key modules such as project cost.  Or the fact they offer the same software and feature set on Scalable SQL, a non-microsoft client-server database engine that runs without requiring regular, manual maintenance by DBAs. I’m particularly aggrieved at the superficial 2-page summary of other, realistically-priced accounting software.  For example, the highly significant Peachtree Office Accounting gets these words:  "lets small businesses share their accounting   information with Microsoft Office. has an open   architecture, so it can integrate easily with Office." POA is way ahead of all the other software on the two page list: it exposes thousands of properties, methods and events to any Access, Excel, or VB programmer right in the microsoft object browser, and they really work.  (The marketing people at Peachtree Software should all be SACKED for bungling their communication and outreach to the developer community) There are 10 or 15 groovy MS Access accounting software listed, most of which will need, ahem, some reworking, when Microsoft Windows 2000 and Office 2000 are released without the Jet engine…. Any number of solid, easy solutions like Peachtree 6 on PAWet, are overlooked… and whole categories like CYMA IV on Pervasive.SQL, a brilliant package at $295/module having solid developer kits on the DBMS, are also omitted.   Any of these would ace Solomon or GP on the typical small business/VB projects I’ve seen. You have to wonder, what’s the use of another Solomon or GP review? There have been at least 100 reviews since they laid the keel for these battlships in 1993 and 1994… Don Kiely get busy and tell us what’s the platform for TOMORROW? You’re telling us, the future is greater and greater feature depth –a monolithic software with 26 levels of menu ten layers deep.   I’m telling you, you missed the big picture, strategically. Most small businesses don’t crucially need the feature depth. We can’t afford $30,000 and anyways.  10 million small businesses need some real obvious improvements in network architecture, electronic commerce, and integration with the other software on our disks. The US economy will have $1.3 trillion of middlemen and distribution layers ripped out of it in the next 5 years by B2B integration, and B2C commerce.  Small businesses, in certain industries, know we are going to get the shit kicked out of us, if we don’t have a capacity to deal in the new HTTP/EDI/XML marketplace. For many small businesses, their losses will be far less if they delete c:Qbooksw*.*, reach out their hand, turn off their PC and telephone an aggressive local ISP with E-commerce hosting, to execute their sales, contact database *and general ledger.* * Todd F. Boyle CPA           www.isomedia.com/homes/tboyle * International Accounting Services LLC  tboyle rosehill dotnet * 9745-128th Av NE, Kirkland WA 98033       (425) 827-3107

Response:

Question:

Can anyone tell me what is value chain analysis and its differences with activity analysis?

Response:

Can anyone tell me what is value chain analysis and its differences with activity analysis?

Value Chain studues are have been done by a modest number of major distributors, their suppliers, and their customers, to better understand the relative cost and value of the individual activities that they perform in delivering the products and services that they diliver to each other. The general idea is to eliminate redundancy and unnecessary cost. Rich — "Adversity is the crucible in which greatness is forged." – Ken Baker  Computer Guidance & Support  Richard A. Bilancia  P. O. Box 620127  Littleton, Colorado  80162-0127  Voice: (303) 973-4035 – FAX: (303) 979-2248 Activity-Based Management and Open Systems Accounting Solutions

Response:

Can anyone tell me what is value chain analysis and its differences with activity analysis?

My understanding of the difference is the emphasis that value chain places on activities as adding or not adding value to the end product from the customer’s point of view. John

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Question:

Where is the home page?????

Response:

www.imanet.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Where is the home page?????

Response:

www.rutgers.edu/Accounting/raw/ima

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where is the home page????? http://www.rutgers.edu/Accounting/raw/ima/ima.htm

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Question:

I have the good fortune of being able to spend between 5 and 8 days (in a block) in northern Michigan sometime in Sept. or October.  I have almost complete flexibility in picking the time beginning after after September 7, and would like to avoid Columbus day weekend.  While there I will have virtually full time to devote to fishing, and I should have access to a small cartopable skiff and small outboard.  I’ll be starting out in the Traverse City/Charlovoix area, but free to travel far and wide.           If you were me, where would you fish?  All suggestions are encouraged  (except of course,  "stay home" "Wisconsin" or  "take up bowling", etc.).           What’s running when?  What streams should not be missed?   Little know wonders off the beaten path ?         Thanks in advance. Steve Kling

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have the good fortune of being able to spend between 5 and 8 days (in a block) in northern Michigan sometime in Sept. or October.  I have almost complete flexibility in picking the time beginning after after September 7, and would like to avoid Columbus day weekend.  While there I will have virtually full time to devote to fishing, and I should have access to a small cartopable skiff and small outboard.  I’ll be starting out in the Traverse City/Charlovoix area, but free to travel far and wide.         If you were me, where would you fish?  All suggestions are encouraged  (except of course,  "stay home" "Wisconsin" or  "take up bowling", etc.).           What’s running when?  What streams should not be missed? Little know wonders off the beaten path ?         Thanks in advance. Steve KlingSteve,

     Admittedly, it’s been about seven years since I’ve been to the u.p.  However, I’ve spent considerable time up there and do have some offerings for you….      First of all, above Marquette there is a little town called Big Bay.  Of interest, it’s where a portion of the film "Anatomy of a Murder" was filmed.  Just south of town, there is a small creek that runs into Lake Independence called Alder Creek.  Not much in size but boy is it beautiful.  Plunge pools and falls and as secluded as you’ll get.  Last time I was there I did pretty well on native brookies.  Also in the area is a well-known river called the Yellow Dog.  Give it a try.  There are some very large brooks in the headwaters but you really have to hoof it into some knarly alders to get at them.  Browns in the lower section.   Again, very pretty country.      On a different note, although I’ve never fished it, just north of Big Bay is a spot known as "Black Rock" out in Lake Superior.  You can get to it by foot and cast spinning gear or flies for lakers and better yet "coasters" which are lake dwelling brook trout.  Some get quite large.  Again, though I’ve never fished it, I’ve heard really good things about the north branch of the Otter river which is just southeast(I believe) of Houghton, Mi.  This is about sixty miles west of Marquette.   Supposed to have good brookies in it.      Finally, for some spectacular scenery and pretty good fishing try any of the streams/rivers in the Porcupine Mountains in extreme western upper Michigan.  Of special note, the Presque Isle, Little and Big Carps, Pinkerton Creek and Union river.  This is as wild and remote as it gets. Of course black bear come with it.  One final thing; get yourself a copy of a Michigan County Map book.  Available in sport shops and bookstores in and around Michigan.  Invaluable for reference and avoiding getting lost.  Good fishing. BFisher

Response:

I have the good fortune of being able to spend between 5 and 8 days (in a block) in northern Michigan sometime in Sept. or October.

Steve: I’m in the same boat.  Not too long ago, I posted a similar request. I’ve learned about an area on the south shore of Lake Superior, west of Marquette, MI.  L’Anse, MI, the Falls River.  Apparently this is a good area to hit salmon, if they’re running and trout (Brown & Rainbow) if the salmon have been in the river for awhile. I’ll keep you address.  If I get any more information, I’ll forward it to you. John

Response:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have the good fortune of being able to spend between 5 and 8 days (in a block) in northern Michigan sometime in Sept. or October.  I have almost complete flexibility in picking the time beginning after after September 7, and would like to avoid Columbus day weekend.  While there I will have virtually full time to devote to fishing, and I should have access to a small cartopable skiff and small outboard.  I’ll be starting out in the Traverse City/Charlovoix area, but free to travel far and wide.      If you were me, where would you fish?  All suggestions are encouraged  (except of course,  "stay home" "Wisconsin" or  "take up bowling", etc.).      What’s running when?  What streams should not be missed?   Little know wonders off the beaten path ?    Thanks in advance.

Traverse City is a good base to operate from.  There are a couple of decent fly shops in town that can steer you in the right direction. You’ll be within a roll cast of the Manistee River and the Au Sable, and not much farther from the Pere Marquette.  It probably would be best to check with a shop for updates on what’s happening where.  If you want to take home a truly memorable reminder of your trip, stop in at R.L. Summers’ rod shop in Traverse City and check out his line of cane rods. Beautiful stuff. E-mail me if you’d like more info on the Manistee or the Au Sable. John

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 I think this guy is talking about NORTHERN michigan, not the U.P, which are completely two different things.–Muskie

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 I’m in the same boat.  Not too long ago, I posted a similar request.  I’ve learned about an area on the south shore of Lake Superior, west of  Marquette, MI.  L’Anse, MI, the Falls River.  Apparently this is a good area  to hit salmon, if they’re running and trout (Brown & Rainbow) if the salmon  have been in the river for awhile.  I’ll keep you address.  If I get any more information, I’ll forward it to you.  John, dont forget about the other rivers I mentioned to you.  The falls river is fairly close to town, but scenic nonetheless.   If you take Skanee rd. northeast from lanse’ to the Huron River, about 29 miles, you will cross the great Slate River, and The Ravine river. Both good streams(and beautiful) but not as large as the Huron. The slate and ravine both have good runs, but because  of the hurons size, it will contain more fish(and more fishermen), But trust me, it would be simple to find seclusion. Let me know

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I’d try a lake that’s in-between L’Anse, MI and Marquette, MI.  Can’t recall the name off the top of my head, however I read about it once in Sport Afield.  Seems it’s some sort of a trophy type lake – they say chances of catching some good size fish is good even though the size limits are quite large.  Menominee river for salmon and trout would be outstanding – not exactly sure of timing, however.  Maybe check with some of the local shops to get advice. — I am an EDP Auditor with 10 years of combined experiences spanning the industries of Retail, Banking, Small Business Accounting (CPA firm), and Paper Manufacturing.  I was even a stock broker for a while. Further information about my many talents can be received by E-Mailing – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have the good fortune of being able to spend between 5 and 8 days (in a block) in northern Michigan sometime in Sept. or October.  I have almost complete flexibility in picking the time beginning after after September 7, and would like to avoid Columbus day weekend.  While there I will have virtually full time to devote to fishing, and I should have access to a small cartopable skiff and small outboard.  I’ll be starting out in the Traverse City/Charlovoix area, but free to travel far and wide.      If you were me, where would you fish?  All suggestions are encouraged  (except of course,  "stay home" "Wisconsin" or  "take up bowling", etc.).      What’s running when?  What streams should not be missed?   Little know wonders off the beaten path ?    Thanks in advance. Steve Kling

Response: