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Which is the best accounting software for a start-up business? are there any free ones? thanks
Try http://www.bizacct.com/download.html It is FREE.
Which is the best accounting software for a start-up business? are there any free ones? thanks
QuickBooks – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which is the best accounting software for a start-up business? are there any free ones? thanks
Accounting Talk » Accounting » taxes
What is the status of federal and state taxes for items sold on ebay. Simply put, if I sold an album in vinyl that was on good shape…and somebody bought it for 25 bucks, and maybe I bought it for 8 bucks in 1980…ostensibly there would be no profit due to inflation, and I havent a reciept anyway. But I was thinking of selling some items that I seek out, buy low sell a bit higher, maybe a few items a week, for xtra money. I dont understand the tax implications for selling like this. Suppose I go to a yard sale, and pick a nice name brand lamp in good condition, and I sell it for 20 bucks more than I paid. Do I have to give uncle sam a slice or what? also I am just exploring a way of making a few hundred xtra a month. thanks for any input backbeat
You might want to start here: http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=99200,00.html I was looking for the rules that separate a hobby from a business – that info is somewhere at that site. As I recall, you won’t need to pay self-employment taxes on net income of under $400 /year. (Self-employment taxes are in addition to income tax.) You really should find a local tax accountant, who will be able to tell you many things you need to know. mcat —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–
<snip IRS is pretty clear that if you buy a "collectable" for investment purposes you must pay capitol gains tax on the profit, and at the highest CGT rate. But thats only 15%, a far cry from what you’d pay filing as a business and paying double SS plus Medicare Plus etc etc. Now, are you selling collectables? The IRS uses "Persian Rugs" as an example but a collectable is…..what? Anything thats collected, be it Beenie Babies or pieces of vintage trolley cars. The fact that you have held these "investments" only a week is immaterial.
You need to read the IRS website again. While you’re at it, you might take a close look between the difference between long term capital gains and short term capital gains and how they’re taxed, and talk to an accountant on your understanding of the tax laws, particularly your idea that buying something for resale and then reselling it suddenly makes it eligible for capital gains treatment because someone might consider it a collectible. I’m not trying to be nasty, but you’re giving people remarkably bad advice, that could cost them a ton of money if they follow it.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do I have to give uncle sam a slice or what? If you are just selling junk out of your house – No If you are buying and selling for profit then yes - Sch C with the 1040 – Keep up with your expenses and mileage — unless you have special expenses, etc etc do not pay a CPA - lots of free, competent help out there starting with IRS publications John Well, maybe not. IRS is pretty clear that if you buy a "collectable" for investment purposes you must pay capitol gains tax on the profit, and at the highest CGT rate. But thats only 15%, a far cry from what you’d pay filing as a business and paying double SS plus Medicare Plus etc etc. Now, are you selling collectables? The IRS uses "Persian Rugs" as an example but a collectable is…..what? Anything thats collected, be it Beenie Babies or pieces of vintage trolley cars. The fact that you have held these "investments" only a week is immaterial. The IRS still wants their capitol gains tax but IF YOU LOSE MONEY you are entitled to deduct it, just as if you bought a dog stock. So before you get out Sched C, go to the IRS website and read up on this. Taxes are high enough without paying more than you are required to pay. Come on Maybe if you buy a million dollar painting and make a profit or loss One of the quick ways to get a letter from the IRS ( if they call you in or come by your house you are a big fish ) is to start claiming a bunch of capital losses on small items you claim you bought as a collectible – If all the bennie baby collectors started claiming capital losses it might break the govt. John
You can lose money on ANY investment scheme, it might be a million dollars, it might be one dollar. Nevertheless, you are obligated to keep track of your profits and losses if you are claiming capital gains (and losses) regardless of the sum. One of the quickest ways to get a letter from the IRS is to be careless in record keeping. They are not gonna take your word for it if you say you lost only 5 bucks on a deal so you didnt log it. But lets take a look at some collectables: how about old magazines? You paid hundreds of dollars for 10 years of National Geographic when they arrived one a month. You go to auction them off and you find, sure, some people collect them but they dont pay much money for them. You sell 200 bucks worth of NG for 10 bucks, thats 190 dollar loss. And so on. How much loss if any depends on what you are selling. I’m just saying keep track of everything and dont AUTOMATICALLY assume you will have only profit to report. Incidently, the normal expenses associated with investing in collectables such as commissions are deductable from your profit too.
The IRS will eventually start mining eBay sales for tax evaders. Heaven knows, Meg will hand over your data to them just for asking. But even then, they’ll start with the big-ticket sales from low-volume sellers.
Only if they can figure out a way to make Ebay issue 1099s to sellers – no way for them to be required to do it now because Ebay truly is a venue, not a seller or collector 95% of the sellers are too small a potato for the IRS to even mess with – they got some biggies out there and we ain’t one of them Anyway if any small seller on Ebay can’t show a break even or loss on Sch C then they need a course in creative accounting
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do I have to give uncle sam a slice or what? If you are just selling junk out of your house – No If you are buying and selling for profit then yes - Sch C with the 1040 – Keep up with your expenses and mileage — unless you have special expenses, etc etc do not pay a CPA - lots of free, competent help out there starting with IRS publications John Well, maybe not. IRS is pretty clear that if you buy a "collectable" for investment purposes you must pay capitol gains tax on the profit, and at the highest CGT rate. But thats only 15%, a far cry from what you’d pay filing as a business and paying double SS plus Medicare Plus etc etc. Now, are you selling collectables? The IRS uses "Persian Rugs" as an example but a collectable is…..what? Anything thats collected, be it Beenie Babies or pieces of vintage trolley cars. The fact that you have held these "investments" only a week is immaterial. The IRS still wants their capitol gains tax but IF YOU LOSE MONEY you are entitled to deduct it, just as if you bought a dog stock. So before you get out Sched C, go to the IRS website and read up on this. Taxes are high enough without paying more than you are required to pay.
You could try that, and it will work for a few things a year. Or even a pile of stuff in one year, if you could defend the position that you were just liquidating your possessions. But if you are in the *business* of buying and selling collectables, the IRS will want to see the Sch. C. It comes to a matter of intent, and how far you are willing to go to show your intent. And the Sch C may even be more advantageous. mcat —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do I have to give uncle sam a slice or what? If you are just selling junk out of your house – No If you are buying and selling for profit then yes - Sch C with the 1040 – Keep up with your expenses and mileage — unless you have special expenses, etc etc do not pay a CPA - lots of free, competent help out there starting with IRS publications John
Well, maybe not. IRS is pretty clear that if you buy a "collectable" for investment purposes you must pay capitol gains tax on the profit, and at the highest CGT rate. But thats only 15%, a far cry from what you’d pay filing as a business and paying double SS plus Medicare Plus etc etc. Now, are you selling collectables? The IRS uses "Persian Rugs" as an example but a collectable is…..what? Anything thats collected, be it Beenie Babies or pieces of vintage trolley cars. The fact that you have held these "investments" only a week is immaterial. The IRS still wants their capitol gains tax but IF YOU LOSE MONEY you are entitled to deduct it, just as if you bought a dog stock. So before you get out Sched C, go to the IRS website and read up on this. Taxes are high enough without paying more than you are required to pay.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do I have to give uncle sam a slice or what? If you are just selling junk out of your house – No If you are buying and selling for profit then yes - Sch C with the 1040 – Keep up with your expenses and mileage — unless you have special expenses, etc etc do not pay a CPA - lots of free, competent help out there starting with IRS publications John Well, maybe not. IRS is pretty clear that if you buy a "collectable" for investment purposes you must pay capitol gains tax on the profit, and at the highest CGT rate. But thats only 15%, a far cry from what you’d pay filing as a business and paying double SS plus Medicare Plus etc etc. Now, are you selling collectables? The IRS uses "Persian Rugs" as an example but a collectable is…..what? Anything thats collected, be it Beenie Babies or pieces of vintage trolley cars. The fact that you have held these "investments" only a week is immaterial. The IRS still wants their capitol gains tax but IF YOU LOSE MONEY you are entitled to deduct it, just as if you bought a dog stock. So before you get out Sched C, go to the IRS website and read up on this. Taxes are high enough without paying more than you are required to pay.
Come on Maybe if you buy a million dollar painting and make a profit or loss One of the quick ways to get a letter from the IRS ( if they call you in or come by your house you are a big fish ) is to start claiming a bunch of capital losses on small items you claim you bought as a collectible – If all the bennie baby collectors started claiming capital losses it might break the govt. John
Do I have to give uncle sam a slice or what?
Only if there actually is a profit. If you are just selling junk out of your house – No
Not so, but the real answer is that with adequate documentation, electronic yard sales almost always run a loss. If the IRS even randomly auditted for it, they wouldn’t yield enough to make it worth the effort. So they don’t. The IRS will eventually start mining eBay sales for tax evaders. Heaven knows, Meg will hand over your data to them just for asking. But even then, they’ll start with the big-ticket sales from low-volume sellers. As long as you’re just cleaning out the garage, and don’t have any major upside surprises, the presumption in Ogden is that you aren’t making a profit (or at least that the IRS can’t build a reliable case that you are). And if you do have an upside surprise, auction it in the same year with some massive losers. And you were going to just toss that old PC 
If you are buying and selling for profit then yes - Sch C with the 1040 –
Even with a [small] eBay business, you can still arrange the bottom line to be nil. Auction your really worthless junk, particularly the stuff you have records for. And if you weren’t religious about keeping receipts in the past, start today. The digicam you just bought last week for $799 will be $30 eBay flotsam in 5 years. Make sure you can prove it. — Regards, PO Box 248 Bob Niland Enterprise which, due to spam, is: 67441-0248 USA email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com http://www.access-one.com/rjn Unless otherwise specifically stated, expressing personal opinions and NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.
Do I have to give uncle sam a slice or what?
Yes- Pepperoni, with extra cheese, please. The old guy needs his cholesterol. BobR
Do I have to give uncle sam a slice or what?
If you are just selling junk out of your house – No If you are buying and selling for profit then yes - Sch C with the 1040 – Keep up with your expenses and mileage — unless you have special expenses, etc etc do not pay a CPA - lots of free, competent help out there starting with IRS publications John
Pepperoni, with extra cheese, please. The old guy needs his cholesterol.
Double cheese, anchovies? To e-mail me, remove theobvious from my e-mail address.
Pepperoni, with extra cheese, please. The old guy needs his cholesterol. Double cheese, anchovies?
Double-cheese bacon burger! You get your grease, lard and fat all in one place. Kris
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pepperoni, with extra cheese, please. The old guy needs his cholesterol. Double cheese, anchovies? Double-cheese bacon burger! You get your grease, lard and fat all in one place. Kris
Cheeseburger with chili, onions and jalapenos. Enough fat to stop your heart all by itself, but enough heat to restart it.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pepperoni, with extra cheese, please. The old guy needs his cholesterol. Double cheese, anchovies? Double-cheese bacon burger! You get your grease, lard and fat all in one place. Kris Cheeseburger with chili, onions and jalapenos. Enough fat to stop your heart all by itself, but enough heat to restart it.
The chile rellenos I made last week! Ever have it burn going in and out? Kris
What is the status of federal and state taxes for items sold on ebay. But I was thinking of selling some items that I seek out, buy low sell a bit higher, maybe a few items a week, for xtra money. I dont understand the tax implications for selling like this. Suppose I go to a yard sale, and pick a nice name brand lamp in good condition, and I sell it for 20 bucks more than I paid. Do I have to give uncle sam a slice or what? also I am just exploring a way of making a few hundred xtra a month. thanks for any input backbeat
Like the others have said: talk to an accountant. Ours does our taxes for about $200 a year. What most people don’t understand about "a business" is that there are deductions. Everything you spend for your business is deductible, as is your vehicle mileage (about 37-cents a mile). It doesn’t take much to track what you paid for an item, when you bought it, what it is, where you bought it, and what you sold it for …. you’re going to have to do that for yourself anyway. Add in receipts for your shipping fees, printer paper and other supplies, ISP (percent of time you use for business), percentage of your home utilities (if the business takes up a bit of space in your home)….in other words, every item you purchase to conduct business. In the end, you owe taxes (or very little, or even an offset to your regular income) based on what your net profit is. Give it all to the accountant in nice totals by category at the end of the year, backed up by a detailed print-out especially if it’s your first time doing this, and everything is fine. Kris
What is the status of federal and state taxes for items sold on ebay. Simply put, if I sold an album in vinyl that was on good shape…and somebody bought it for 25 bucks, and maybe I bought it for 8 bucks in 1980…ostensibly there would be no profit due to inflation, and I havent a reciept anyway. But I was thinking of selling some items that I seek out, buy low sell a bit higher, maybe a few items a week, for xtra money. I dont understand the tax implications for selling like this. Suppose I go to a yard sale, and pick a nice name brand lamp in good condition, and I sell it for 20 bucks more than I paid. Do I have to give uncle sam a slice or what? also I am just exploring a way of making a few hundred xtra a month. thanks for any input backbeat
What is the status of federal and state taxes for items sold on ebay. Simply put, if I sold an album in vinyl that was on good shape…and somebody bought it for 25 bucks, and maybe I bought it for 8 bucks in 1980…ostensibly there would be no profit due to inflation, and I havent a reciept anyway. But I was thinking of selling some items that I seek out, buy low sell a bit higher, maybe a few items a week, for xtra money. I dont understand the tax implications for selling like this. Suppose I go to a yard sale, and pick a nice name brand lamp in good condition, and I sell it for 20 bucks more than I paid. Do I have to give uncle sam a slice or what? also I am just exploring a way of making a few hundred xtra a month. thanks for any input
I’m sure you’ll get tons of suggestions here, but I’d suggest contacting a local tax attorney. The last thing you want to say during an audit is "But ‘Darkling’ from AMOE said it was OK to do it this way!" Evan To e-mail me, remove theobvious from my e-mail address.
Accounting Talk » Accounting » Ray R's IFFC and 300 Club Update for 07 June 2003
What a great attitude, hoping when I get there to read it you got a great loss, Lee
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I don’t think my reaction was what the weigher expected, she whispered to me that I was up 5.2 lbs and I laughed, deep and well. I’ve gotten more exercize this week since I started the program. Rode 6 miles on my new bike (took a couple days off cause my knee was acting up) and then yesterday spent the day at a Disney water park (Typhon Lagoon) climbing up stairs and fighting the wave pool (10 foot waves) all day. I’m pooped. Since I was 3 points down from the previous on my weekly points ( 24 over minimum), I guess the weight increase is probably water (can you ingest water from the wrong end going down a water slide?). Otherwise it might be that gravity is affecting me differently this week.. I’m not worried about it. Looking forward to a big whoosh in my future. Ray 560/376.8/200
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I don’t think my reaction was what the weigher expected, she whispered to me that I was up 5.2 lbs and I laughed, deep and well. I’ve gotten more exercize this week since I started the program. Rode 6 miles on my new bike (took a couple days off cause my knee was acting up) and then yesterday spent the day at a Disney water park (Typhon Lagoon) climbing up stairs and fighting the wave pool (10 foot waves) all day. I’m pooped. Since I was 3 points down from the previous on my weekly points ( 24 over minimum), I guess the weight increase is probably water (can you ingest water from the wrong end going down a water slide?). Otherwise it might be that gravity is affecting me differently this week.. I’m not worried about it. Looking forward to a big whoosh in my future. Ray 560/376.8/200
Hi Ray, With all that exercise, it most probably was water! At least you’re a lot fitter now than a week ago I hope this next week gives you a nice big whoosh! Good luck! Heather
Better luck next week Ray. — Brenda 209/178/150 IFFC goal 175
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I don’t think my reaction was what the weigher expected, she whispered to me that I was up 5.2 lbs and I laughed, deep and well. I’ve gotten more exercize this week since I started the program. Rode 6 miles on my new bike (took a couple days off cause my knee was acting up) and then yesterday spent the day at a Disney water park (Typhon Lagoon) climbing up stairs and fighting the wave pool (10 foot waves) all day. I’m pooped. Since I was 3 points down from the previous on my weekly points ( 24 over minimum), I guess the weight increase is probably water (can you ingest water from the wrong end going down a water slide?). Otherwise it might be that gravity is affecting me differently this week.. I’m not worried about it. Looking forward to a big whoosh in my future. Ray 560/376.8/200
Ray, your positive attitude over everything just makes me smile whenever I read your posts. I am sure that all this extra exercise has made you gain water and muscle. I see a big whoose in your future too!!! =) -Susie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I don’t think my reaction was what the weigher expected, she whispered to me that I was up 5.2 lbs and I laughed, deep and well. I’ve gotten more exercize this week since I started the program. Rode 6 miles on my new bike (took a couple days off cause my knee was acting up) and then yesterday spent the day at a Disney water park (Typhon Lagoon) climbing up stairs and fighting the wave pool (10 foot waves) all day. I’m pooped. Since I was 3 points down from the previous on my weekly points ( 24 over minimum), I guess the weight increase is probably water (can you ingest water from the wrong end going down a water slide?). Otherwise it might be that gravity is affecting me differently this week.. I’m not worried about it. Looking forward to a big whoosh in my future. Ray 560/376.8/200
Sorry about the gain, Ray, but I’m sure you’ll get a whoosh soon. Take care of your knee. Linda 252/187/136 IFFC goal–180
Well, when water skiing, ahem, attempting to water ski and not getting off the skimming surface, I’ve added water at the wrong end – so it is possible (G) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I don’t think my reaction was what the weigher expected, she whispered to me that I was up 5.2 lbs and I laughed, deep and well. I’ve gotten more exercize this week since I started the program. Rode 6 miles on my new bike (took a couple days off cause my knee was acting up) and then yesterday spent the day at a Disney water park (Typhon Lagoon) climbing up stairs and fighting the wave pool (10 foot waves) all day. I’m pooped. Since I was 3 points down from the previous on my weekly points ( 24 over minimum), I guess the weight increase is probably water (can you ingest water from the wrong end going down a water slide?). Otherwise it might be that gravity is affecting me differently this week.. I’m not worried about it. Looking forward to a big whoosh in my future. Ray 560/376.8/200
I like your attitude. We should all pay attention. Sometimes there is just no accounting for why the scale refuses to cooperate. You’re right – there IS a tidal whoosh coming your way. Paper 250.6/235.2/150? Joined WW Apr 30/03 Dream it, believe it, and you can achieve it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi All, I don’t think my reaction was what the weigher expected, she whispered to me that I was up 5.2 lbs and I laughed, deep and well. I’ve gotten more exercize this week since I started the program. Rode 6 miles on my new bike (took a couple days off cause my knee was acting up) and then yesterday spent the day at a Disney water park (Typhon Lagoon) climbing up stairs and fighting the wave pool (10 foot waves) all day. I’m pooped. Since I was 3 points down from the previous on my weekly points ( 24 over minimum), I guess the weight increase is probably water (can you ingest water from the wrong end going down a water slide?). Otherwise it might be that gravity is affecting me differently this week.. I’m not worried about it. Looking forward to a big whoosh in my future. Ray 560/376.8/200
Gosh, it’s no wonder you laughed LOL!! I’ve had a couple of very small gains from something similar but I was annoyed – maybe if the gain had been as big as yours was, I would have laughed also ;-D I bet she was shocked at your laughing ;-D - I look forward to seeing how big your loss is next week ;-D Elaine K 331.4/186.6/179 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I don’t think my reaction was what the weigher expected, she whispered to me that I was up 5.2 lbs and I laughed, deep and well. I’ve gotten more exercize this week since I started the program. Rode 6 miles on my new bike (took a couple days off cause my knee was acting up) and then yesterday spent the day at a Disney water park (Typhon Lagoon) climbing up stairs and fighting the wave pool (10 foot waves) all day. I’m pooped. Since I was 3 points down from the previous on my weekly points ( 24 over minimum), I guess the weight increase is probably water (can you ingest water from the wrong end going down a water slide?). Otherwise it might be that gravity is affecting me differently this week.. I’m not worried about it. Looking forward to a big whoosh in my future. Ray 560/376.8/200
Sorry about the gain, but I’m sure it is all water gain. Next week watch out for the flood 
— Patty 211.2/186/155 Started WW 12/02
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I don’t think my reaction was what the weigher expected, she whispered to me that I was up 5.2 lbs and I laughed, deep and well. I’ve gotten more exercize this week since I started the program. Rode 6 miles on my new bike (took a couple days off cause my knee was acting up) and then yesterday spent the day at a Disney water park (Typhon Lagoon) climbing up stairs and fighting the wave pool (10 foot waves) all day. I’m pooped. Since I was 3 points down from the previous on my weekly points ( 24 over minimum), I guess the weight increase is probably water (can you ingest water from the wrong end going down a water slide?). Otherwise it might be that gravity is affecting me differently this week.. I’m not worried about it. Looking forward to a big whoosh in my future. Ray 560/376.8/200
LOL, Ray. I think you handled it well. Sounds like you had a great day at the park. I’m sure jealous! — Joy 285/258.2/150
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I don’t think my reaction was what the weigher expected, she whispered to me that I was up 5.2 lbs and I laughed, deep and well. I’ve gotten more exercize this week since I started the program. Rode 6 miles on my new bike (took a couple days off cause my knee was acting up) and then yesterday spent the day at a Disney water park (Typhon Lagoon) climbing up stairs and fighting the wave pool (10 foot waves) all day. I’m pooped. Since I was 3 points down from the previous on my weekly points ( 24 over minimum), I guess the weight increase is probably water (can you ingest water from the wrong end going down a water slide?). Otherwise it might be that gravity is affecting me differently this week.. I’m not worried about it. Looking forward to a big whoosh in my future. Ray 560/376.8/200
Ah sore muscles hold water like sponges. And those of us who are (or have been) more gravity challenged have an awful lot of muscle. The neat thing is, they will let it go after they adjust to the new level of activity. With a rather impressive whoosh. I love to see the week that I gained 5 followed by the week after that I lost 6 on my little graph. Lesanne (365)247/171.6/164
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I don’t think my reaction was what the weigher expected, she whispered to me that I was up 5.2 lbs and I laughed, deep and well. I’ve gotten more exercize this week since I started the program. Rode 6 miles on my new bike (took a couple days off cause my knee was acting up) and then yesterday spent the day at a Disney water park (Typhon Lagoon) climbing up stairs and fighting the wave pool (10 foot waves) all day. I’m pooped. Since I was 3 points down from the previous on my weekly points ( 24 over minimum), I guess the weight increase is probably water (can you ingest water from the wrong end going down a water slide?). Otherwise it might be that gravity is affecting me differently this week.. I’m not worried about it. Looking forward to a big whoosh in my future. Ray 560/376.8/200
You had a great reaction, Ray. And congrats on the exercise ! I ‘m pretty sure you ‘re retaining water (you can’t gain 5 lbs of fat in a week), so prepare yourself for a nice whoosh! — Nathalie from Belgium 134.1/108.8/minigoal 106.9 Goal 68 Kg 295.6/239.8/minigoal 235.6/Goal 150 pounds IFFC 245.9/239.8/234
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I don’t think my reaction was what the weigher expected, she whispered to me that I was up 5.2 lbs and I laughed, deep and well. I’ve gotten more exercize this week since I started the program. Rode 6 miles on my new bike (took a couple days off cause my knee was acting up) and then yesterday spent the day at a Disney water park (Typhon Lagoon) climbing up stairs and fighting the wave pool (10 foot waves) all day. I’m pooped. Since I was 3 points down from the previous on my weekly points ( 24 over minimum), I guess the weight increase is probably water (can you ingest water from the wrong end going down a water slide?). Otherwise it might be that gravity is affecting me differently this week.. I’m not worried about it. Looking forward to a big whoosh in my future. Ray 560/376.8/200
"Ray Miller" spent the day at a Disney water park (Typhon Lagoon) climbing up stairs and fighting the wave pool (can you ingest water from the wrong end going down a water slide?).
A definite yes!!! Water slides can put water where it isn’t meant to be!!!!!
Well, what else can you do but laugh after a week like you’ve had only to see the scale go up!? Your body sounds totally confused about what it’s supposed to do! Here’s hoping you’ll have the last laugh very soon. Great job on the getting those bike miles in, Ray. Take care of those knees. — Prairie Roots 232/201.6/IFFC 202/(?)157 joined WW Online 22-Feb-2003 Here’s our FAQ: http://www.didian.com/asdww/ and welcome notice: http://www.geocities.com/welcomenotice/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I don’t think my reaction was what the weigher expected, she whispered to me that I was up 5.2 lbs and I laughed, deep and well. I’ve gotten more exercize this week since I started the program. Rode 6 miles on my new bike (took a couple days off cause my knee was acting up) and then yesterday spent the day at a Disney water park (Typhon Lagoon) climbing up stairs and fighting the wave pool (10 foot waves) all day. I’m pooped. Since I was 3 points down from the previous on my weekly points ( 24 over minimum), I guess the weight increase is probably water (can you ingest water from the wrong end going down a water slide?). Otherwise it might be that gravity is affecting me differently this week.. I’m not worried about it. Looking forward to a big whoosh in my future. Ray 560/376.8/200
Hi All, I don’t think my reaction was what the weigher expected, she whispered to me that I was up 5.2 lbs and I laughed, deep and well. I’ve gotten more exercize this week since I started the program. Rode 6 miles on my new bike (took a couple days off cause my knee was acting up) and then yesterday spent the day at a Disney water park (Typhon Lagoon) climbing up stairs and fighting the wave pool (10 foot waves) all day. I’m pooped. Since I was 3 points down from the previous on my weekly points ( 24 over minimum), I guess the weight increase is probably water (can you ingest water from the wrong end going down a water slide?). Otherwise it might be that gravity is affecting me differently this week.. I’m not worried about it. Looking forward to a big whoosh in my future.
My weight loss stalled when I started exercising. It was a mixture of water retention and muscle gain I think. I very soon started losing again, and I felt lots better. I’ve just come out of the bath after 30 minutes on the bike and 10 minutes with hand weights and I feel great, if a little achy. Be careful of the knee. Make sure you don’t overdo it, and make sure you warm up before and stretch after. Good luck Ray — rmnsuk overall – 273/210/182 iffc - 218/210/200
Hi All, I don’t think my reaction was what the weigher expected, she whispered to me that I was up 5.2 lbs and I laughed, deep and well. I’ve gotten more exercize this week since I started the program. Rode 6 miles on my new bike (took a couple days off cause my knee was acting up) and then yesterday spent the day at a Disney water park (Typhon Lagoon) climbing up stairs and fighting the wave pool (10 foot waves) all day. I’m pooped. Since I was 3 points down from the previous on my weekly points ( 24 over minimum), I guess the weight increase is probably water (can you ingest water from the wrong end going down a water slide?). Otherwise it might be that gravity is affecting me differently this week.. I’m not worried about it. Looking forward to a big whoosh in my future. Ray 560/376.8/200
The body retains water when you exercise a lot and stay busy. You should have a big whoosh next week. You might also be adding muscle, you have a great attitude! — Just a little bump in the road! SuzyQ
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I don’t think my reaction was what the weigher expected, she whispered to me that I was up 5.2 lbs and I laughed, deep and well. I’ve gotten more exercize this week since I started the program. Rode 6 miles on my new bike (took a couple days off cause my knee was acting up) and then yesterday spent the day at a Disney water park (Typhon Lagoon) climbing up stairs and fighting the wave pool (10 foot waves) all day. I’m pooped. Since I was 3 points down from the previous on my weekly points ( 24 over minimum), I guess the weight increase is probably water (can you ingest water from the wrong end going down a water slide?). Otherwise it might be that gravity is affecting me differently this week.. I’m not worried about it. Looking forward to a big whoosh in my future. Ray 560/376.8/200
Accounting Talk » Accounting » Sun N Fun 2003 Report — the long Flight Home
It sounded like a classic case of "get-there-itus".
Bullsquat. Get-there-itus is when you press on despite deteriorating conditions. Smart flying is knowing when to park it. There’s a fine line between the two sometimes but sounds like Jay did the best he could with the information he had. — Jim Fisher
Another great post Jay. Glad you and the family made it home safely (especially with those all important stuffed animals…been there/done that with my daughter). — Jack Allison PP-ASEL "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return" - Leonardo Da Vinci
Jay, another great post about a real cross-country VFR trip. Too bad the aviation magazines don’t print stuff like this. —
Good reporting on the whole trip, made for some excellent reading. I was at S&F on Thursday and Saturday but did not succeed in bumping into any of the other news group folks. I should have done some hunting through the camping areas! As for the Florida flying, now you know why we Floridians typically start our flights early, especially when heading up through the southeast on a long flight, and plan to stop flying by early afternoon. While you got caught in a frontal system, we do commonly get predictable and healthy thunderstorms in the afternoons. Glad to hear you made it safely, JimC
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have now realized that one of the best attributes of Sun N Fun is the fact that it takes place in the springtime — before summer. While this may seem pretty obvious, it carries for me a deeper meaning. When I leave Oshkosh each year, it is always with a tinge of melancholy, as I know that it marks the end of the warmth of summer, and the beginning of fall. All the anticipation and joy of our annual pilgrimage to the Mecca of flight inevitably ends with the bittersweet closure of knowing that it will be an entire YEAR before we get to once again mingle with so many like-minded individuals in that aviation womb we call "Oshkosh"… Sun N Fun, on the other hand, carries none of that baggage. In fact, on our taxi out to the runway for departure, we experienced the joyous revelation that this was not the end, but the *beginning* of the airshow season, and we soared into the sky knowing that our summer was still on the horizon — not drifting away in our past. It was a really, really good feeling, and one that I would like to feel again next year! However, after our flight home this year, I may have some difficulty convincing Mary to try this one again. I’m not even sure I’d want to try it again myself, truth be told. But I’m ahead of myself. The prog charts for Saturday and Sunday made it clear that Saturday was the best day to depart. Waiting until Sunday — our preferred course of action — would mean almost certain failure, as a major winter storm was building in the Rockies, and would soon be engulfing the Great Plains. So, it was with a heavy heart that we decided to bail out a day early, and head for home… However, in a last, defiant nod to the joys of Sun N Fun, we decided to wait until after breakfast on Saturday to break camp. This would mean flying half-way home on Saturday, and pushing on the rest of the way Sunday, beating the storm into Iowa by a good 12 hours. This decision nearly proved our undoing… After saying our goodbyes to friends and new acquaintances (Walt Porter, BTW, of this newsgroup, actually managed to find our campsite on Friday night! Sadly, Mary and I were so beat from the day’s exertions that we were truly lousy hosts. Worse, we had drank all the beer ourselves before Walt arrived! Still, it was great to finally meet Walt in person, and we hope to hook up "for real" again soon — maybe at Oshkosh?), we headed back to the site, planning to quickly break camp and depart. Well, nothing happens quickly in 85 degree heat, in the blazing hot sun — especially when the F-117 Stealth Fighter shows up for several high speed fly-bys! That danged little black jet went RIGHT over our tent at the end of RWY 9 — so of course we had to stand in awe as it raced up and down the runway… Long story short, we didn’t get the engine started until noon — and then we had to get gas. (Due to the soft grass, the fuel truck wasn’t making "house calls" this year. Instead, you had to taxi to them for gas.) This turned out to be fairly time consuming, as the local yokel doing the pumping was not exactly the quickest deer in the meadow. But, eventually we were on our way. Departing Lakeland was simplicity itself. Simply listen to ATIS, taxi to the active, follow the flagmen — and away you go! From gas to departure couldn’t have taken five minutes — certainly better than any Oshkosh departure we’ve done. Soon we were climbing up to our cruising altitude of 4500 feet, headed northwest under a high overcast… Within 50 miles, however, our high overcast began coming down. Soon we were forced down to 3800, then 3200. Before long, to remain clear of clouds, we were down to 2500, and the visibility was starting to suffer. Long tendrils of virga were clearly visible ahead, and it became clear that the "broken" line of thunderstorms in our path were starting to consolidate. After a quick consultation with Flight Service, we decided to fly northwesterly along the Gulf of Mexico shoreline up to the Tallahassee area, and to try to do a "left-hook" around the western edge of the storms. Once through this backside gap, it should be clear sailing as far north as we cared to fly for the evening… This evaluation was confirmed with Jacksonville Approach, who was "painting" weather ahead for us throughout the flight. Well, the ceiling just kept coming down, visibility was varying from 3 to 5 miles in light rain, and the boys at Flight Watch were soon singing a different tune. It seemed the "gap" west of Tallahassee had filled into a thunderstorm with tops to FL 390! Flying along in a more northerly direction, heading inland from the Gulf, trying to keep the storm well west of our position, we proceeded to follow the clear areas, dodging rain showers and becoming increasingly dismayed as our ceiling simply kept coming down, and down, and down. Eventually, just 20 miles from Tallahassee, I was forced to descend to only 700 AGL to remain clear of clouds, with rain showers visible in all quadrants around me. It was time to do a 180, and we headed back to the last airport we had seen — a place called Perry-Foley, in little Perry, Florida. Informing Jacksonville Approach of my changed intentions, and the reasons for it, "our" controller pitched in completely, volunteering information on weather conditions ahead and behind, current conditions at Perry, etc. It was obvious that he was accustomed to this kind of stuff happening in the tropical Florida build-ups, and he commented that we really should have departed earlier to avoid the afternoon heating… Smart too late for us… Within a few miles, conditions had improved to legal VFR again, and we proceeded uneventfully back to Perry, where we joined a group of nine other stranded "fellow travelers" from Sun N Fun. While most were VFR pilots like us, several were IFR certified — which made Mary and I feel better about our decision to "wimp out" on the flight. We all shared our tales of woe, and how we had fought the good fight trying to find that ever-elusive (and closing) gap in the line… It soon became obvious that there was absolutely NOTHING at Perry-Foley airport. A nice facility, with three large WWII-looking runways, it was nevertheless largely deserted, with just three planes based on the field, and no FBO at all. The only governing authority was the local fire department, who was using some of the abandoned large hangars to house their fire trucks. The firemen proved to be warily hospitable to us, their wayward Sun N Fun pilots, letting us use their phones and internet access for weather information. We were an interesting bunch, flying everything from J3 Cubs to T-34 Mentors, and hailing from all over the country. A few had caught a cab (with the only cab in town) to get some lunch, only to discover that the cab driver charged them EACH $10.00 to drive just a little over a mile to a nearby restaurant. With directions to the restaurant — and a fresh weather briefing indicating that we’d be stuck there for at least a couple of hours — we started the long hike into town. After 15 minutes or so, the four of us came across a western apparel store with two little old ladies on the front porch. Hailing them from the road, I inquired as to the location of the restaurant, which we thought was just ahead. To our surprise, they responded that the closest restaurant was the OTHER direction! We had apparently been given the wrong directions, and reluctantly began trudging our Sun N Fun-sore bodies back the other way. 15 more minutes, and we came across a gas station. With no restaurant in sight, I inquired as to the location of the now-legendary restaurant. To my amazement, the lady told me that the restaurant was BACK the OTHER way, just around the curve from the western apparel store! It seems those blue-haired old ladies apparently didn’t get along with the owner of that restaurant, and had sent us on a wild goose chase! So, back we hiked to "Huddles" — which turned out to be an excellent Southern chain restaurant. My 9-year old daughter discovered "grits" there — something she had never heard of before — and found that she rather liked them. (They were actually edible, a vast improvement over MY first impression of grits when I was her age…) After the long hike back to the airport, we discovered that the rest of our band of stranded fliers had already departed — apparently conditions had improved! After a quick call to flight service, confirming that things were indeed looking up, we, too, departed little Perry, Florida — hopefully never to return. Within a few miles, it became apparent that — while conditions had improved — things were still pretty dicey. Flying along at 2500 feet over largely unpopulated parts of Florida and Georgia proved to be quite tense, as visibility kept varying wildly, with rain showers and virga falling all around us. The feeling of never being able to relax was quite wearing, as we just never
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Huh? Are you asking people to clean up their posts <snip <snip ? Or are you asking folks not to respond as often? Or both? I like when a part of a post is included. I do not like a long post, where I have to hunt for the new material, only to find – "me too" hidden at the bottom. Or wherever. Part of the previous post, included in the new post, is important for me because when I delete a session, the next download doesn’t have any thread reference. It just starts fresh where the running thread was deleted. I would like to see more people clean up their posts a little bit. Some already do, some don’t. I’m getting less rigid about using <…snip. I figure it might be assumed. Plus very few folks do that anymore. Evolution of the medium? (Wow, is that Latin?) What I will strongly advocate for in all posters is: Please put a space between your post and the one you are answering, especially in a running ping-pong match. Most do this already. It’s is a pet-peeve of mine when someone runs things together. Those posts don’t get read. I am not a grammar/spelling hound, but a total lack of any attempt to use (some) capitalization, is another reason, for me, to not read a post. Slackers!! That’s it from me. I’m off on my 3 mile walk – sore knee and all. (60 F in the Twin Cities this afternoon) No cable, no cell, no voice mail, no pagers. No almost everything… But we do have 640K DSL !!! (Mmm….much speed) — Montblack Never met a comma, I didn’t like. ("Martin Hotze" wrote) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it is OT, but just an idea (just picked you, JimC, could have been any other of the fullquoters): would you just please cut down your postings and referring to the part of the previous poster that you are referring? there are more than 3 fullquotes of Jay’s great story. There are people out there using modems and pay by traffic or time.
You will still find that most schools in the country follow the judaeochristian tradition of the week before Easter/Passover. Since both of these are based on the first full moon after the spring equinox, figuring Spring Break is relatively simple. Jim shared these priceless pearls of wisdom: – Scheduling the show during Spring Break would give even those of us on the -Left – Coast the chance to try and make it from time to time. – -Agreed — except for one problem: "Spring Break" varies wildly from area to -area. – -In Wisconsin, it was always around Easter. Here in Iowa, the university -schedules it for early March — and all the elementary and secondary schools -follow suit. – -"Spring Break" is tough to pin down… Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup) VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
Scheduling the show during Spring Break would give even those of us on the Left Coast the chance to try and make it from time to time.
Agreed — except for one problem: "Spring Break" varies wildly from area to area. In Wisconsin, it was always around Easter. Here in Iowa, the university schedules it for early March — and all the elementary and secondary schools follow suit. "Spring Break" is tough to pin down… — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"
Jay, Really enjoyed your story! Glad you made it back OK. Of course you and/or Mary need to get your IR, but you already know that, and if you had icing conditions that wouldn’t have mattered anyway. (and might have made things worse?) When planning routes, I always check to see what enroute airports have car rental facilities and/or airline service in my AOPA guide. That way, if get-hom-itis rears it’s ugly head at the same time Mother Nature rears hers, I know I can get home via other means. Airports with airline service are good, because sooner or later, you will need to go back and get your bird. Hopefully summer is coming……. Take care, Bryan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Glad to see you made it home instead of into the NTSB accident database. Maybe it’s just me, but it sure seemed you were unnecessarily close to the latter for my taste. It sounded like a classic case of "get-there-itus". Well, yes and no, John. We were very careful NOT to press on into impassable weather, and were very conscious of the location of the next closest airport. We *were* prepared to stop at any time if things got out of hand. On the other hand, we were extremely conscious of the fact that if we didn’t "make it" through that day, we would most likely be stuck for several MORE days. In fact, checking current conditions as I’m writing this, it is likely that we STILL would not be home if we had not pressed on when we did. Cross-country flying is a balancing act all the way, that’s for sure. We obviously made the right choices (since I’m typing this), but as I already said, I wouldn’t want to do the flight again without more "contingency" time built into the schedule. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" <snip interesting and downright harrowing flight story
I was at S&F on Thursday and Saturday but did not succeed in bumping into any of the other news group folks. I should have done some hunting through the camping areas!
Hey, Jim — we hung around "Building A" for a few minutes at 5 PM on Thursday, but didn’t see anyone holding a "Usenet?" sign, so we kept on trudging. Maybe we can hook up at OSH? — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"
Jay, another great post about a real cross-country VFR trip. Too bad the aviation magazines don’t print stuff like this.
Just realized that. Now I know what that reminded me of, some of Gordon Baxter’s old columns! Funny you should post something like that to remind me of when Flying had some relevant columns, right after complaining about some of their less "exciting" stuff. — Mike
Boy, ain’t THAT the truth of it. Y’know, the first week before the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox ain’t THAT hard to predict a hundred years or so in advance. Scheduling the show during Spring Break would give even those of us on the Left Coast the chance to try and make it from time to time. Jim shared these priceless pearls of wisdom: -Great stories Jay. One of these days I’m going to head down to Sun-n-Fun, -now if they’d only schedual them during spring break… Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup) VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
I have now realized that one of the best attributes of Sun N Fun is the fact that it takes place in the springtime — before summer.
<snip Did we learn a lot from it? You bet, and these experiences will serve to make us better, more cautious pilots. But, for once, I’m really glad to be home.
Great stories Jay. One of these days I’m going to head down to Sun-n-Fun, now if they’d only schedual them during spring break… Glad to hear you made it back safely, sounds like you learned more about cross country weather flying in those two days than most of our students here learn about ever. There is a world of differance between the training flights we do for the ratings, day trips, and multi day trips across the country, and in many ways private pilot training doesn’t come close to covering them I fear. If you’re going to use an airplane for travel and get any utility out of it you have to know how to fly the weather. I’ve been in those situations more than a few times, "well, it’s iffy to go now, but if we wait, we’ll be here for a week. Let’s see how far we can get." then followed by "ok, now it’s looking bad, time to land" The key is knowing WHEN to land, or how best to get around the weather that is there. The problem is, a lot of the people that are doing the instructing out there now have never had to make these decisions; their cross country experience is limited to the 4 hour training flights, that don’t even cross one weather system. I think everybody could benefit from adding a 800 mile, multiple day cross country to the CFI requirements, or maybe to the insturment requirements, or something similar. That’s just my rant though. Good job getting home safely though! One of these days we’ll have to road trip out to Iowa to visit (or, hell, if you get stuck in central Illinois again, give me a call!) — Mike
Glad to see you made it home instead of into the NTSB accident database. Maybe it’s just me, but it sure seemed you were unnecessarily close to the latter for my taste. It sounded like a classic case of "get-there-itus".
Well, yes and no, John. We were very careful NOT to press on into impassable weather, and were very conscious of the location of the next closest airport. We *were* prepared to stop at any time if things got out of hand. On the other hand, we were extremely conscious of the fact that if we didn’t "make it" through that day, we would most likely be stuck for several MORE days. In fact, checking current conditions as I’m writing this, it is likely that we STILL would not be home if we had not pressed on when we did. Cross-country flying is a balancing act all the way, that’s for sure. We obviously made the right choices (since I’m typing this), but as I already said, I wouldn’t want to do the flight again without more "contingency" time built into the schedule. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip interesting and downright harrowing flight story
However, after our flight home this year, I may have some difficulty convincing Mary to try this one again. I’m not even sure I’d want to try it again myself, truth be told. But I’m ahead of myself.
Enjoyed your reports, especially the one about your trip home. Very happy to read you were able to quickly exit what read like a potentially very dangerous icing encounter. — Peter R. —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—
I realize that it wouldn’t have made much difference on this trip, but isn’t it time for you to get an IR? Mike MU-2
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Glad to see you made it home instead of into the NTSB accident database. Maybe it’s just me, but it sure seemed you were unnecessarily close to the latter for my taste. It sounded like a classic case of "get-there-itus". Well, yes and no, John. We were very careful NOT to press on into impassable weather, and were very conscious of the location of the next closest airport. We *were* prepared to stop at any time if things got out of hand. On the other hand, we were extremely conscious of the fact that if we didn’t "make it" through that day, we would most likely be stuck for several MORE days. In fact, checking current conditions as I’m writing this, it is likely that we STILL would not be home if we had not pressed on when we did. Cross-country flying is a balancing act all the way, that’s for sure. We obviously made the right choices (since I’m typing this), but as I already said, I wouldn’t want to do the flight again without more "contingency" time built into the schedule. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" <snip interesting and downright harrowing flight story
I realize that it wouldn’t have made much difference on this trip, but isn’t it time for you to get an IR?
Past time. Like 8 years past time. I’ve finished all the flying requirements, and taken all the dual needed for the rating, so I’m confident that I wouldn’t kill myself flying into "soft" IFR conditions. What I need is the study-time to finish up the written… — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"
Thanks for the stories, Jay. They were well written and exciting to read.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have now realized that one of the best attributes of Sun N Fun is the fact that it takes place in the springtime — before summer. While this may seem pretty obvious, it carries for me a deeper meaning. When I leave Oshkosh each year, it is always with a tinge of melancholy, as I know that it marks the end of the warmth of summer, and the beginning of fall. All the anticipation and joy of our annual pilgrimage to the Mecca of flight inevitably ends with the bittersweet closure of knowing that it will be an entire YEAR before we get to once again mingle with so many like-minded individuals in that aviation womb we call "Oshkosh"… Sun N Fun, on the other hand, carries none of that baggage. In fact, on our taxi out to the runway for departure, we experienced the joyous revelation that this was not the end, but the *beginning* of the airshow season, and we soared into the sky knowing that our summer was still on the horizon — not drifting away in our past. It was a really, really good feeling, and one that I would like to feel again next year! However, after our flight home this year, I may have some difficulty convincing Mary to try this one again. I’m not even sure I’d want to try it again myself, truth be told. But I’m ahead of myself. The prog charts for Saturday and Sunday made it clear that Saturday was the best day to depart. Waiting until Sunday — our preferred course of action — would mean almost certain failure, as a major winter storm was building in the Rockies, and would soon be engulfing the Great Plains. So, it was with a heavy heart that we decided to bail out a day early, and head for home… However, in a last, defiant nod to the joys of Sun N Fun, we decided to wait until after breakfast on Saturday to break camp. This would mean flying half-way home on Saturday, and pushing on the rest of the way Sunday, beating the storm into Iowa by a good 12 hours. This decision nearly proved our undoing… After saying our goodbyes to friends and new acquaintances (Walt Porter, BTW, of this newsgroup, actually managed to find our campsite on Friday night! Sadly, Mary and I were so beat from the day’s exertions that we were truly lousy hosts. Worse, we had drank all the beer ourselves before Walt arrived! Still, it was great to finally meet Walt in person, and we hope to hook up "for real" again soon — maybe at Oshkosh?), we headed back to the site, planning to quickly break camp and depart. Well, nothing happens quickly in 85 degree heat, in the blazing hot sun — especially when the F-117 Stealth Fighter shows up for several high speed fly-bys! That danged little black jet went RIGHT over our tent at the end of RWY 9 — so of course we had to stand in awe as it raced up and down the runway… Long story short, we didn’t get the engine started until noon — and then we had to get gas. (Due to the soft grass, the fuel truck wasn’t making "house calls" this year. Instead, you had to taxi to them for gas.) This turned out to be fairly time consuming, as the local yokel doing the pumping was not exactly the quickest deer in the meadow. But, eventually we were on our way. Departing Lakeland was simplicity itself. Simply listen to ATIS, taxi to the active, follow the flagmen — and away you go! From gas to departure couldn’t have taken five minutes — certainly better than any Oshkosh departure we’ve done. Soon we were climbing up to our cruising altitude of 4500 feet, headed northwest under a high overcast… Within 50 miles, however, our high overcast began coming down. Soon we were forced down to 3800, then 3200. Before long, to remain clear of clouds, we were down to 2500, and the visibility was starting to suffer. Long tendrils of virga were clearly visible ahead, and it became clear that the "broken" line of thunderstorms in our path were starting to consolidate. After a quick consultation with Flight Service, we decided to fly northwesterly along the Gulf of Mexico shoreline up to the Tallahassee area, and to try to do a "left-hook" around the western edge of the storms. Once through this backside gap, it should be clear sailing as far north as we cared to fly for the evening… This evaluation was confirmed with Jacksonville Approach, who was "painting" weather ahead for us throughout the flight. Well, the ceiling just kept coming down, visibility was varying from 3 to 5 miles in light rain, and the boys at Flight Watch were soon singing a different tune. It seemed the "gap" west of Tallahassee had filled into a thunderstorm with tops to FL 390! Flying along in a more northerly direction, heading inland from the Gulf, trying to keep the storm well west of our position, we proceeded to follow the clear areas, dodging rain showers and becoming increasingly dismayed as our ceiling simply kept coming down, and down, and down. Eventually, just 20 miles from Tallahassee, I was forced to descend to only 700 AGL to remain clear of clouds, with rain showers visible in all quadrants around me. It was time to do a 180, and we headed back to the last airport we had seen — a place called Perry-Foley, in little Perry, Florida. Informing Jacksonville Approach of my changed intentions, and the reasons for it, "our" controller pitched in completely, volunteering information on weather conditions ahead and behind, current conditions at Perry, etc. It was obvious that he was accustomed to this kind of stuff happening in the tropical Florida build-ups, and he commented that we really should have departed earlier to avoid the afternoon heating… Smart too late for us… Within a few miles, conditions had improved to legal VFR again, and we proceeded uneventfully back to Perry, where we joined a group of nine other stranded "fellow travelers" from Sun N Fun. While most were VFR pilots like us, several were IFR certified — which made Mary and I feel better about our decision to "wimp out" on the flight. We all shared our tales of woe, and how we had fought the good fight trying to find that ever-elusive (and closing) gap in the line… It soon became obvious that there was absolutely NOTHING at Perry-Foley airport. A nice facility, with three large WWII-looking runways, it was nevertheless largely deserted, with just three planes based on the field, and no FBO at all. The only governing authority was the local fire department, who was using some of the abandoned large hangars to house their fire trucks. The firemen proved to be warily hospitable to us, their wayward Sun N Fun pilots, letting us use their phones and internet access for weather information. We were an interesting bunch, flying everything from J3 Cubs to T-34 Mentors, and hailing from all over the country. A few had caught a cab (with the only cab in town) to get some lunch, only to discover that the cab driver charged them EACH $10.00 to drive just a little over a mile to a nearby restaurant. With directions to the restaurant — and a fresh weather briefing indicating that we’d be stuck there for at least a couple of hours — we started the long hike into town. After 15 minutes or so, the four of us came across a western apparel store with two little old ladies on the front porch. Hailing them from the road, I inquired as to the location of the restaurant, which we thought was just ahead. To our surprise, they responded that the closest restaurant was the OTHER direction! We had apparently been given the wrong directions, and reluctantly began trudging our Sun N Fun-sore bodies back the other way. 15 more minutes, and we came across a gas station. With no restaurant in sight, I inquired as to the location of the now-legendary restaurant. To my amazement, the lady told me that the restaurant was BACK the OTHER way, just around the curve from the western apparel store! It seems those blue-haired old ladies apparently didn’t get along with the owner of that restaurant, and had sent us on a wild goose chase! So, back we hiked to "Huddles" — which turned out to be an excellent Southern chain restaurant. My 9-year old daughter discovered "grits" there — something she had never heard of before — and found that she rather liked them. (They were actually edible, a vast improvement over MY first impression of grits when I was her age…) After the long hike back to the airport, we discovered that the rest of our band of stranded fliers had already departed — apparently conditions had improved! After a quick call to flight service, confirming that things were indeed looking up, we, too, departed little Perry, Florida — hopefully never to return. Within a few miles, it became apparent that — while conditions had improved — things were still pretty dicey. Flying along at 2500 feet over largely unpopulated parts of Florida and Georgia proved to be quite tense, as visibility kept varying wildly, with rain showers and virga falling all around us. The feeling of never being able to relax was quite wearing, as we just never could be sure that conditions wouldn’t close down around us again. To make matters worse, there were very few airports, and almost no functioning AWOS stations along our route of flight. Luckily, with frequent departures from Center frequency to consult with Flight Watch, and with the help of some very helpful controllers who helped us avoid the heaviest cells, we eventually broke out into a higher overcast where we could climb to a more comfortable 4500 foot cruising altitude. The worst was over — or
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I have now realized that one of the best attributes of Sun N Fun is the fact that it takes place in the springtime — before summer.
Man, what a great series of stories, Jay. Thanks for (virtually) taking me along with you! — Jim Fisher
Man, what a great series of stories, Jay. Thanks for (virtually) taking me along with you!
Shoot, Jim — someday maybe we’ll get that Piper 6x, and pick you and the wife up on our way to Lakeland? :) — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"
<snip interesting and downright harrowing flight story Glad to see you made it home instead of into the NTSB accident database. Maybe it’s just me, but it sure seemed you were unnecessarily close to the latter for my taste. It sounded like a classic case of "get-there-itus".
Great set of stories Jay. Too bad we didn’t run into each other down there. The weather was a tough deal. I managed to get thru further east but that’s luck of the draw. The IFR rating didn’t help although it gave me some other potential options. You recognized one point which I have to keep re-learning, that is, leaving early is the key to avoiding a lot of weather. It’s a good rule just about anywhere but especially so in the south during T-storm season (most of the year). Problem is that the morning is also good for sleep, breakfast, touring, and everything else. I always swear we’re getting an early start then at 1:00 decide to finally mount up.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have now realized that one of the best attributes of Sun N Fun is the fact that it takes place in the springtime — before summer. While this may seem pretty obvious, it carries for me a deeper meaning. When I leave Oshkosh each year, it is always with a tinge of melancholy, as I know that it marks the end of the warmth of summer, and the beginning of fall. All the anticipation and joy of our annual pilgrimage to the Mecca of flight inevitably ends with the bittersweet closure of knowing that it will be an entire YEAR before we get to once again mingle with so many like-minded individuals in that aviation womb we call "Oshkosh"… Sun N Fun, on the other hand, carries none of that baggage. In fact, on our taxi out to the runway for departure, we experienced the joyous revelation that this was not the end, but the *beginning* of the airshow season, and we soared into the sky knowing that our summer was still on the horizon — not drifting away in our past. It was a really, really good feeling, and one that I would like to feel again next year! However, after our flight home this year, I may have some difficulty convincing Mary to try this one again. I’m not even sure I’d want to try it again myself, truth be told. But I’m ahead of myself. The prog charts for Saturday and Sunday made it clear that Saturday was the best day to depart. Waiting until Sunday — our preferred course of action — would mean almost certain failure, as a major winter storm was building in the Rockies, and would soon be engulfing the Great Plains. So, it was with a heavy heart that we decided to bail out a day early, and head for home… However, in a last, defiant nod to the joys of Sun N Fun, we decided to wait until after breakfast on Saturday to break camp. This would mean flying half-way home on Saturday, and pushing on the rest of the way Sunday, beating the storm into Iowa by a good 12 hours. This decision nearly proved our undoing… After saying our goodbyes to friends and new acquaintances (Walt Porter, BTW, of this newsgroup, actually managed to find our campsite on Friday night! Sadly, Mary and I were so beat from the day’s exertions that we were truly lousy hosts. Worse, we had drank all the beer ourselves before Walt arrived! Still, it was great to finally meet Walt in person, and we hope to hook up "for real" again soon — maybe at Oshkosh?), we headed back to the site, planning to quickly break camp and depart. Well, nothing happens quickly in 85 degree heat, in the blazing hot sun — especially when the F-117 Stealth Fighter shows up for several high speed fly-bys! That danged little black jet went RIGHT over our tent at the end of RWY 9 — so of course we had to stand in awe as it raced up and down the runway… Long story short, we didn’t get the engine started until noon — and then we had to get gas. (Due to the soft grass, the fuel truck wasn’t making "house calls" this year. Instead, you had to taxi to them for gas.) This turned out to be fairly time consuming, as the local yokel doing the pumping was not exactly the quickest deer in the meadow. But, eventually we were on our way. Departing Lakeland was simplicity itself. Simply listen to ATIS, taxi to the active, follow the flagmen — and away you go! From gas to departure couldn’t have taken five minutes — certainly better than any Oshkosh departure we’ve done. Soon we were climbing up to our cruising altitude of 4500 feet, headed northwest under a high overcast… Within 50 miles, however, our high overcast began coming down. Soon we were forced down to 3800, then 3200. Before long, to remain clear of clouds, we were down to 2500, and the visibility was starting to suffer. Long tendrils of virga were clearly visible ahead, and it became clear that the "broken" line of thunderstorms in our path were starting to consolidate. After a quick consultation with Flight Service, we decided to fly northwesterly along the Gulf of Mexico shoreline up to the Tallahassee area, and to try to do a "left-hook" around the western edge of the storms. Once through this backside gap, it should be clear sailing as far north as we cared to fly for the evening… This evaluation was confirmed with Jacksonville Approach, who was "painting" weather ahead for us throughout the flight. Well, the ceiling just kept coming down, visibility was varying from 3 to 5 miles in light rain, and the boys at Flight Watch were soon singing a different tune. It seemed the "gap" west of Tallahassee had filled into a thunderstorm with tops to FL 390! Flying along in a more northerly direction, heading inland from the Gulf, trying to keep the storm well west of our position, we proceeded to follow the clear areas, dodging rain showers and becoming increasingly dismayed as our ceiling simply kept coming down, and down, and down. Eventually, just 20 miles from Tallahassee, I was forced to descend to only 700 AGL to remain clear of clouds, with rain showers visible in all quadrants around me. It was time to do a 180, and we headed back to the last airport we had seen — a place called Perry-Foley, in little Perry, Florida. Informing Jacksonville Approach of my changed intentions, and the reasons for it, "our" controller pitched in completely, volunteering information on weather conditions ahead and behind, current conditions at Perry, etc. It was obvious that he was accustomed to this kind of stuff happening in the tropical Florida build-ups, and he commented that we really should have departed earlier to avoid the afternoon heating… Smart too late for us… Within a few miles, conditions had improved to legal VFR again, and we proceeded uneventfully back to Perry, where we joined a group of nine other stranded "fellow travelers" from Sun N Fun. While most were VFR pilots like us, several were IFR certified — which made Mary and I feel better about our decision to "wimp out" on the flight. We all shared our tales of woe, and how we had fought the good fight trying to find that ever-elusive (and closing) gap in the line… It soon became obvious that there was absolutely NOTHING at Perry-Foley airport. A nice facility, with three large WWII-looking runways, it was nevertheless largely deserted, with just three planes based on the field, and no FBO at all. The only governing authority was the local fire department, who was using some of the abandoned large hangars to house their fire trucks. The firemen proved to be warily hospitable to us, their wayward Sun N Fun pilots, letting us use their phones and internet access for weather information. We were an interesting bunch, flying everything from J3 Cubs to T-34 Mentors, and hailing from all over the country. A few had caught a cab (with the only cab in town) to get some lunch, only to discover that the cab driver charged them EACH $10.00 to drive just a little over a mile to a nearby restaurant. With directions to the restaurant — and a fresh weather briefing indicating that we’d be stuck there for at least a couple of hours — we started the long hike into town. After 15 minutes or so, the four of us came across a western apparel store with two little old ladies on the front porch. Hailing them from the road, I inquired as to the location of the restaurant, which we thought was just ahead. To our surprise, they responded that the closest restaurant was the OTHER direction! We had apparently been given the wrong directions, and reluctantly began trudging our Sun N Fun-sore bodies back the other way. 15 more minutes, and we came across a gas station. With no restaurant in sight, I inquired as to the location of the now-legendary restaurant. To my amazement, the lady told me that the restaurant was BACK the OTHER way, just around the curve from the western apparel store! It seems those blue-haired old ladies apparently didn’t get along with the owner of that restaurant, and had sent us on a wild goose chase! So, back we hiked to "Huddles" — which turned out to be an excellent Southern chain restaurant. My 9-year old daughter discovered "grits" there — something she had never heard of before — and found that she rather liked them. (They were actually edible, a vast improvement over MY first impression of grits when I was her age…) After the long hike back to the airport, we discovered that the rest of our band of stranded fliers had already departed — apparently conditions had improved! After a quick call to flight service, confirming that things were indeed looking up, we, too, departed little Perry, Florida — hopefully never to return. Within a few miles, it became apparent that — while conditions had improved — things were still pretty dicey. Flying along at 2500 feet over largely unpopulated parts of Florida and Georgia proved to be quite tense, as visibility kept varying wildly, with rain showers and virga falling all around us. The feeling of
… read more »
Sounds like an interesting, but very educational trip home. I recall one of my old instructors telling me "you never learn anything until you’re scared to death." I don’t know if I agree with that completely, but… oh well…
That’s EXACTLY what my instructor used to say. And, after we landed safely in Peoria, it’s exactly what I told my somewhat shaken wife. I don’t think she agreed completely, either. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"
Oh Jay, come next April visions of Jimmy Buffet will be dancing in your head. You’ll look at your worn flops and that lovely hat I’m sure you wore at Lakeland with longing. The cold of Iowa will melt away as warm tropical breezes beckon. Next year, eat at the Red Barn and Catfish Country. You’ve not fully experienced Lakeland until you have, preferable arriving in the back of a pickup truck with 13-20 other campers. Remember, too, that the best souvenirs and t-shirts are at Paradise City. I always buy my whirligigs there. I have a few comments that I would like to add to your excellent accounting. First, as a Southerner, may I welcome you to the joys of flying in the South in the Spring. It’s called the Stalled Front, typically happening on the Georgia/Florida line, conveniently over the Okeefenokee Swamp. With the exception of Florida, you’ll note that there are few fly-ins (if any) in the South in April. A few start up in May. Summer brings the haze. Our best fly-in month is October, and then there are so many it’s impossible to chose. Next, yours and Mary’s trip mimicked our own last year, the exceptions being that we only travel 500 miles from northern Georgia to central Florida, we didn’t encounter ice, and we were in two airplanes. You can read about it when you have the time here:http://www.southern-aviator.com/editorial/articledetail.lasso?-token.ke y=4988&-token.src=column&-nothing Our trip was an adventure and I wouldn’t change one thing. Of course, Henry took the whole week off, we weren’t flying with kids and we fly Luscombes. While mine is rather speedy (110 mph), Henry’s only travels a sedate 85-90 mph and carries only 14 gallons of fuel. The mindset must be different. The trip is the adventure, the destination optional. Thank you for a wonderful accounting. We missed the trip this year but gained a wonderful grandson. Still, you made me feel like we were there. We have fly-in destinations planned for Kansas and Illinois later in the year. Maybe Henry and I will pass you and Mary in those Midwestern skies. Deb — 1946 Luscombe 8A (His) 1948 Luscombe 8E (Hers) 1954 C-195B Restoring (Ours) Jasper, Ga. (JZP)
Sounds like an interesting, but very educational trip home. I recall one of my old instructors telling me "you never learn anything until you’re scared to death." I don’t know if I agree with that completely, but… oh well… — Clear Skies- Casey Hansen PP-ASEL-IA, Comm student http://www.caseynet.com/casey – Aviation weblog
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have now realized that one of the best attributes of Sun N Fun is the fact that it takes place in the springtime — before summer. While this may seem pretty obvious, it carries for me a deeper meaning. When I leave Oshkosh each year, it is always with a tinge of melancholy, as I know that it marks the end of the warmth of summer, and the beginning of fall. All the anticipation and joy of our annual pilgrimage to the Mecca of flight inevitably ends with the bittersweet closure of knowing that it will be an entire YEAR before we get to once again mingle with so many like-minded individuals in that aviation womb we call "Oshkosh"… Sun N Fun, on the other hand, carries none of that baggage. In fact, on our taxi out to the runway for departure, we experienced the joyous revelation that this was not the end, but the *beginning* of the airshow season, and we soared into the sky knowing that our summer was still on the horizon — not drifting away in our past. It was a really, really good feeling, and one that I would like to feel again next year! However, after our flight home this year, I may have some difficulty convincing Mary to try this one again. I’m not even sure I’d want to try it again myself, truth be told. But I’m ahead of myself. The prog charts for Saturday and Sunday made it clear that Saturday was the best day to depart. Waiting until Sunday — our preferred course of action — would mean almost certain failure, as a major winter storm was building in the Rockies, and would soon be engulfing the Great Plains. So, it was with a heavy heart that we decided to bail out a day early, and head for home… However, in a last, defiant nod to the joys of Sun N Fun, we decided to wait until after breakfast on Saturday to break camp. This would mean flying half-way home on Saturday, and pushing on the rest of the way Sunday, beating the storm into Iowa by a good 12 hours. This decision nearly proved our undoing… After saying our goodbyes to friends and new acquaintances (Walt Porter, BTW, of this newsgroup, actually managed to find our campsite on Friday night! Sadly, Mary and I were so beat from the day’s exertions that we were truly lousy hosts. Worse, we had drank all the beer ourselves before Walt arrived! Still, it was great to finally meet Walt in person, and we hope to hook up "for real" again soon — maybe at Oshkosh?), we headed back to the site, planning to quickly break camp and depart. Well, nothing happens quickly in 85 degree heat, in the blazing hot sun — especially when the F-117 Stealth Fighter shows up for several high speed fly-bys! That danged little black jet went RIGHT over our tent at the end of RWY 9 — so of course we had to stand in awe as it raced up and down the runway… Long story short, we didn’t get the engine started until noon — and then we had to get gas. (Due to the soft grass, the fuel truck wasn’t making "house calls" this year. Instead, you had to taxi to them for gas.) This turned out to be fairly time consuming, as the local yokel doing the pumping was not exactly the quickest deer in the meadow. But, eventually we were on our way. Departing Lakeland was simplicity itself. Simply listen to ATIS, taxi to the active, follow the flagmen — and away you go! From gas to departure couldn’t have taken five minutes — certainly better than any Oshkosh departure we’ve done. Soon we were climbing up to our cruising altitude of 4500 feet, headed northwest under a high overcast… Within 50 miles, however, our high overcast began coming down. Soon we were forced down to 3800, then 3200. Before long, to remain clear of clouds, we were down to 2500, and the visibility was starting to suffer. Long tendrils of virga were clearly visible ahead, and it became clear that the "broken" line of thunderstorms in our path were starting to consolidate. After a quick consultation with Flight Service, we decided to fly northwesterly along the Gulf of Mexico shoreline up to the Tallahassee area, and to try to do a "left-hook" around the western edge of the storms. Once through this backside gap, it should be clear sailing as far north as we cared to fly for the evening… This evaluation was confirmed with Jacksonville Approach, who was "painting" weather ahead for us throughout the flight. Well, the ceiling just kept coming down, visibility was varying from 3 to 5 miles in light rain, and the boys at Flight Watch were soon singing a different tune. It seemed the "gap" west of Tallahassee had filled into a thunderstorm with tops to FL 390! Flying along in a more northerly direction, heading inland from the Gulf, trying to keep the storm well west of our position, we proceeded to follow the clear areas, dodging rain showers and becoming increasingly dismayed as our ceiling simply kept coming down, and down, and down. Eventually, just 20 miles from Tallahassee, I was forced to descend to only 700 AGL to remain clear of clouds, with rain showers visible in all quadrants around me. It was time to do a 180, and we headed back to the last airport we had seen — a place called Perry-Foley, in little Perry, Florida. Informing Jacksonville Approach of my changed intentions, and the reasons for it, "our" controller pitched in completely, volunteering information on weather conditions ahead and behind, current conditions at Perry, etc. It was obvious that he was accustomed to this kind of stuff happening in the tropical Florida build-ups, and he commented that we really should have departed earlier to avoid the afternoon heating… Smart too late for us… Within a few miles, conditions had improved to legal VFR again, and we proceeded uneventfully back to Perry, where we joined a group of nine other stranded "fellow travelers" from Sun N Fun. While most were VFR pilots like us, several were IFR certified — which made Mary and I feel better about our decision to "wimp out" on the flight. We all shared our tales of woe, and how we had fought the good fight trying to find that ever-elusive (and closing) gap in the line… It soon became obvious that there was absolutely NOTHING at Perry-Foley airport. A nice facility, with three large WWII-looking runways, it was nevertheless largely deserted, with just three planes based on the field, and no FBO at all. The only governing authority was the local fire department, who was using some of the abandoned large hangars to house their fire trucks. The firemen proved to be warily hospitable to us, their wayward Sun N Fun pilots, letting us use their phones and internet access for weather information. We were an interesting bunch, flying everything from J3 Cubs to T-34 Mentors, and hailing from all over the country. A few had caught a cab (with the only cab in town) to get some lunch, only to discover that the cab driver charged them EACH $10.00 to drive just a little over a mile to a nearby restaurant. With directions to the restaurant — and a fresh weather briefing indicating that we’d be stuck there for at least a couple of hours — we started the long hike into town. After 15 minutes or so, the four of us came across a western apparel store with two little old ladies on the front porch. Hailing them from the road, I inquired as to the location of the restaurant, which we thought was just ahead. To our surprise, they responded that the closest restaurant was the OTHER direction! We had apparently been given the wrong directions, and reluctantly began trudging our Sun N Fun-sore bodies back the other way. 15 more minutes, and we came across a gas station. With no restaurant in sight, I inquired as to the location of the now-legendary restaurant. To my amazement, the lady told me that the restaurant was BACK the OTHER way, just around the curve from the western apparel store! It seems those blue-haired old ladies apparently didn’t get along with the owner of that restaurant, and had sent us on a wild goose chase! So, back we hiked to "Huddles" — which turned out to be an excellent Southern chain restaurant. My 9-year old daughter discovered "grits" there — something she had never heard of before — and found that she rather liked them. (They were actually edible, a vast improvement over MY first impression of grits when I was her age…) After the long hike back to the airport, we discovered that the rest of our band of stranded fliers had already departed — apparently conditions had improved! After a quick call to flight service, confirming that things were indeed looking up, we, too, departed little Perry, Florida — hopefully never to return. Within a few miles, it became apparent that — while conditions had improved — things were still pretty dicey. Flying along at 2500 feet over largely unpopulated parts of Florida and Georgia proved to be quite tense, as visibility kept varying wildly, with rain showers and virga falling all around us. The feeling of never being able to relax was quite wearing, as we just never could be sure that conditions wouldn’t close down around us again. To make matters worse, there were very few airports, and almost no functioning AWOS stations along our route of flight. Luckily, with frequent departures from Center frequency to consult with
… read more »
I have now realized that one of the best attributes of Sun N Fun is the fact that it takes place in the springtime — before summer. While this may seem pretty obvious, it carries for me a deeper meaning. When I leave Oshkosh each year, it is always with a tinge of melancholy, as I know that it marks the end of the warmth of summer, and the beginning of fall. All the anticipation and joy of our annual pilgrimage to the Mecca of flight inevitably ends with the bittersweet closure of knowing that it will be an entire YEAR before we get to once again mingle with so many like-minded individuals in that aviation womb we call "Oshkosh"… Sun N Fun, on the other hand, carries none of that baggage. In fact, on our taxi out to the runway for departure, we experienced the joyous revelation that this was not the end, but the *beginning* of the airshow season, and we soared into the sky knowing that our summer was still on the horizon — not drifting away in our past. It was a really, really good feeling, and one that I would like to feel again next year! However, after our flight home this year, I may have some difficulty convincing Mary to try this one again. I’m not even sure I’d want to try it again myself, truth be told. But I’m ahead of myself. The prog charts for Saturday and Sunday made it clear that Saturday was the best day to depart. Waiting until Sunday — our preferred course of action — would mean almost certain failure, as a major winter storm was building in the Rockies, and would soon be engulfing the Great Plains. So, it was with a heavy heart that we decided to bail out a day early, and head for home… However, in a last, defiant nod to the joys of Sun N Fun, we decided to wait until after breakfast on Saturday to break camp. This would mean flying half-way home on Saturday, and pushing on the rest of the way Sunday, beating the storm into Iowa by a good 12 hours. This decision nearly proved our undoing… After saying our goodbyes to friends and new acquaintances (Walt Porter, BTW, of this newsgroup, actually managed to find our campsite on Friday night! Sadly, Mary and I were so beat from the day’s exertions that we were truly lousy hosts. Worse, we had drank all the beer ourselves before Walt arrived! Still, it was great to finally meet Walt in person, and we hope to hook up "for real" again soon — maybe at Oshkosh?), we headed back to the site, planning to quickly break camp and depart. Well, nothing happens quickly in 85 degree heat, in the blazing hot sun — especially when the F-117 Stealth Fighter shows up for several high speed fly-bys! That danged little black jet went RIGHT over our tent at the end of RWY 9 — so of course we had to stand in awe as it raced up and down the runway… Long story short, we didn’t get the engine started until noon — and then we had to get gas. (Due to the soft grass, the fuel truck wasn’t making "house calls" this year. Instead, you had to taxi to them for gas.) This turned out to be fairly time consuming, as the local yokel doing the pumping was not exactly the quickest deer in the meadow. But, eventually we were on our way. Departing Lakeland was simplicity itself. Simply listen to ATIS, taxi to the active, follow the flagmen — and away you go! From gas to departure couldn’t have taken five minutes — certainly better than any Oshkosh departure we’ve done. Soon we were climbing up to our cruising altitude of 4500 feet, headed northwest under a high overcast… Within 50 miles, however, our high overcast began coming down. Soon we were forced down to 3800, then 3200. Before long, to remain clear of clouds, we were down to 2500, and the visibility was starting to suffer. Long tendrils of virga were clearly visible ahead, and it became clear that the "broken" line of thunderstorms in our path were starting to consolidate. After a quick consultation with Flight Service, we decided to fly northwesterly along the Gulf of Mexico shoreline up to the Tallahassee area, and to try to do a "left-hook" around the western edge of the storms. Once through this backside gap, it should be clear sailing as far north as we cared to fly for the evening… This evaluation was confirmed with Jacksonville Approach, who was "painting" weather ahead for us throughout the flight. Well, the ceiling just kept coming down, visibility was varying from 3 to 5 miles in light rain, and the boys at Flight Watch were soon singing a different tune. It seemed the "gap" west of Tallahassee had filled into a thunderstorm with tops to FL 390! Flying along in a more northerly direction, heading inland from the Gulf, trying to keep the storm well west of our position, we proceeded to follow the clear areas, dodging rain showers and becoming increasingly dismayed as our ceiling simply kept coming down, and down, and down. Eventually, just 20 miles from Tallahassee, I was forced to descend to only 700 AGL to remain clear of clouds, with rain showers visible in all quadrants around me. It was time to do a 180, and we headed back to the last airport we had seen — a place called Perry-Foley, in little Perry, Florida. Informing Jacksonville Approach of my changed intentions, and the reasons for it, "our" controller pitched in completely, volunteering information on weather conditions ahead and behind, current conditions at Perry, etc. It was obvious that he was accustomed to this kind of stuff happening in the tropical Florida build-ups, and he commented that we really should have departed earlier to avoid the afternoon heating… Smart too late for us… Within a few miles, conditions had improved to legal VFR again, and we proceeded uneventfully back to Perry, where we joined a group of nine other stranded "fellow travelers" from Sun N Fun. While most were VFR pilots like us, several were IFR certified — which made Mary and I feel better about our decision to "wimp out" on the flight. We all shared our tales of woe, and how we had fought the good fight trying to find that ever-elusive (and closing) gap in the line… It soon became obvious that there was absolutely NOTHING at Perry-Foley airport. A nice facility, with three large WWII-looking runways, it was nevertheless largely deserted, with just three planes based on the field, and no FBO at all. The only governing authority was the local fire department, who was using some of the abandoned large hangars to house their fire trucks. The firemen proved to be warily hospitable to us, their wayward Sun N Fun pilots, letting us use their phones and internet access for weather information. We were an interesting bunch, flying everything from J3 Cubs to T-34 Mentors, and hailing from all over the country. A few had caught a cab (with the only cab in town) to get some lunch, only to discover that the cab driver charged them EACH $10.00 to drive just a little over a mile to a nearby restaurant. With directions to the restaurant — and a fresh weather briefing indicating that we’d be stuck there for at least a couple of hours — we started the long hike into town. After 15 minutes or so, the four of us came across a western apparel store with two little old ladies on the front porch. Hailing them from the road, I inquired as to the location of the restaurant, which we thought was just ahead. To our surprise, they responded that the closest restaurant was the OTHER direction! We had apparently been given the wrong directions, and reluctantly began trudging our Sun N Fun-sore bodies back the other way. 15 more minutes, and we came across a gas station. With no restaurant in sight, I inquired as to the location of the now-legendary restaurant. To my amazement, the lady told me that the restaurant was BACK the OTHER way, just around the curve from the western apparel store! It seems those blue-haired old ladies apparently didn’t get along with the owner of that restaurant, and had sent us on a wild goose chase! So, back we hiked to "Huddles" — which turned out to be an excellent Southern chain restaurant. My 9-year old daughter discovered "grits" there — something she had never heard of before — and found that she rather liked them. (They were actually edible, a vast improvement over MY first impression of grits when I was her age…) After the long hike back to the airport, we discovered that the rest of our band of stranded fliers had already departed — apparently conditions had improved! After a quick call to flight service, confirming that things were indeed looking up, we, too, departed little Perry, Florida — hopefully never to return. Within a few miles, it became apparent that — while conditions had improved — things were still pretty dicey. Flying along at 2500 feet over largely unpopulated parts of Florida and Georgia proved to be quite tense, as visibility kept varying wildly, with rain showers and virga falling all around us. The feeling of never being able to relax was quite wearing, as we just never could be sure that conditions wouldn’t close down around us again. To make matters worse, there were very few airports, and almost no functioning AWOS stations along our route of flight. Luckily, with frequent departures from Center frequency to consult with Flight Watch, and with the help of some very helpful controllers who helped us avoid the heaviest cells, we eventually broke out into a higher overcast where we could climb to a more comfortable 4500 foot cruising altitude. The worst was over — or so we thought. Visibility gradually improved as nightfall slowly descended on the countryside. Now over Alabama, we considered our options. Flight service was now predicting that the cold front we had finally busted through would become a warm front overnight — and slide back north, possibly trapping us underneath it again! To make matters worse, the winter storm approaching Iowa was intensifying, and moving into the Plains with alarming speed. Our best bet was to
… read more »
Accounting Talk » Business Accounting » any bank workers
anyone out there who happens to have schizophrenia and works in the financial services industry? e-mail me or post something about your work and how you do it or how you landed the job. I am interested in working in this industry and am studying some soc-economics. — Peter Timusk B.Math Carleton University presently studying for a BA in law minor in philosophy ptim…@sympatico.ca www.crystalcomputing.net web master/math tutor/security guard/poet/musician/community volunteer/mental illness activist. Union delegate/secretary, GPOOC volunteer coordinator, debian linux user/newbie, Perl/C programming newbie(2002), former Fortan IV hacker
"Peter Timusk" <ptim…@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:smFB9.19598$2×4.1790335@news20.bellglobal.com… > I am interested in working in this industry and am studying some > soc-economics.
Oh God…that is so boring. Economics was like my worst class in school…or at least in high school. I simply was not interested in it. However, I did do very well in an accounting class I took when I was at the university. I also did well in my business law class. But, despite doing well in these, I wasn’t interested in either. If I had the ability, I would like to get into some science field. That does interest me…but I would have to work around my stupidity. It will be quite a challenge. I also like writing, but I wouldn’t want to study that in school. I’d rather just do that on my own time. I’ll just have to find a good book on English grammar, to touch it up a bit on it. Actually, I have a pretty good one – "U.S. News & World Report Stylebook". I just haven’t gotten around to reading much of it. As far as the spelling goes, I can always run a spell checker, I guess. I’m just usually too lazy to do that.
"Peter Timusk" <ptim…@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:smFB9.19598$2×4.1790335@news20.bellglobal.com… > anyone out there who happens to have schizophrenia and works in the > financial services industry? > e-mail me or post something about your work and how you do it or how you > landed the job. > I am interested in working in this industry and am studying some > soc-economics.
I work as finance manager, but that’s mainly payroll, cash flow that sort of stuff, is that what you mean? I love it, I love working with figures and I have a passion, almost an obsession for efficiency and accuracy. I would say I make on average about one mistake/error per year. Sometimes I go months and months and months before I make a mistake. I have a PASSION for being dependable. Michelle
Accounting Talk » Office Accounting » FDA Regulations & First Amendment Questions
Hi Robin, Great load of information here. Thanks for all this. I especially liked the last 2 links. To bad they are PDF. Most people will avoid them. Be Well, Kim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -robin…@lycos.com (RSt) wrote in message <news:3db5b816.38187074@news.dreamscape.com>… > October 15, 2002 > Stung by Courts, F.D.A. Rethinks Its Rules > http://www.nytimes.com > By Gina Kolata > After losing a series of court decisions that found it in violation of > the First Amendment’s guarantee of freedom of speech, the Food and > Drug Administration has begun a wide-ranging review of regulations > that control what the makers of drugs, supplements, food and cosmetics > can say about their products. > At issue is the delicate balance between a company’s right to > communicate with its customers and the food and drug agency’s mandate > to protect the public. > But the court decisions, which included a stinging rebuke from the > Supreme Court in April, have prompted the agency to ask whether it > may, at times, have gone too far in its insistence that it decides > when scientific truth has been established and what companies can say. > At issue are regulations governing everything from what a drug company > can print on a T-shirt to what a sales representative can say in the > privacy of a doctor’s office. > No one is advocating that false or inaccurate claims be permitted. But > agency officials are asking questions like whether they can continue > to prevent food companies from making health claims for their products > and whether they can continue to insist that drug advertising include > a full accounting of side effects and conditions that may make the > drug inadvisable. > The review began with a notice in The Federal Register on May 16 > inviting interested parties to comment on "First Amendment issues." > Hundreds replied, with wish lists, cries of alarm, hefty documents > from drug company lawyers and notes from consumers who want the agency > to take all shackles off the supplement industry. The comment period > ended on Sept. 13, and those who wish to respond to comments have > until Oct. 28. > Over the next few months the agency will review the comments and > decide what changes, if any, to propose in its regulations. It also > expects to get a new commissioner, Dr. Mark B. McClellan, who was > nominated by President Bush late last month and seems headed for a > speedy confirmation. "No decision will be made without his involvement > and approval," said Daniel Troy, the agency’s chief counsel. > The review is not just an academic exercise, warns Dr. David A. > Kessler, who was the agency’s commissioner from 1990 to 1997. > "It represents a frontal attack on the fundamental responsibilities of > the agency under the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act," said Dr. Kessler, > who is now the dean of Yale’s School of Medicine. "I have great > concerns that this is simply an attempt to deregulate while doing it > in the name of the First Amendment." > Others say the review is long overdue. > Jonathan Emord, a lawyer who sued the F.D.A. on behalf of the First > Amendment rights of supplement manufacturers and won, says the the > agency has long been treading on shaky legal ground. > "We are advocating that the F.D.A. undergo a change in regulatory > mind-set, a First Amendment sensitivity training," Mr. Emord said. > "They take the position that science must be interpreted for the > public and given to them piecemeal when the regulators decide it is > proven. That role of being a gatekeeper is precisely what the First > Amendment was designed to prevent." > Until now, the agency’s position has been that it decides what > companies can say and how they can say it. Its mission of protecting > the public health, the agency argued, gives it broad authority to > regulate commercial speech. > But Mr. Troy says recent court rulings have given the agency pause. > On April 29, the Supreme Court bluntly informed the agency that it was > being overly paternalistic. > The question before the court was whether pharmacies that made > specialized mixtures of prescription drugs could advertise or promote > their products. Mr. Troy, arguing for the F.D.A., said that if > pharmacies were allowed to do so they would essentially be selling > prescription drugs without demonstrating safety and efficacy. > "Why spend the millions of dollars to come through our approval > process?" Mr. Troy asked. "It’s our fundamental power to approve drugs > before they come on the market." > But the Supreme Court said that restricting free speech should be a > last resort, writing, "We have previously rejected the notion that the > government has an interest in preventing the dissemination of truthful > commercial information in order to prevent members of the public from > making bad decisions with the information." > Two other rulings by lower courts rebuked the agency on similar > grounds. In 1998, the Federal District Court for the District of > Columbia overturned F.D.A. regulations preventing companies from > freely distributing information about unapproved uses for approved > drugs and devices. (The agency’s challengers were represented by Mr. > Troy, a constitutional lawyer who was in private practice before > coming to the F.D.A. in 2001.) > The court said it was not enough for the agency to argue that it was > protecting the public. "To the extent that the F.D.A. is endeavoring > to keep information from physicians out of concern that they will > misuse that information," the federal court said, "the regulation is > wholly and completely unsupportable." The decision was vacated on > appeal. > Another ruling, in 1999, involved the F.D.A.’s refusal to allow > dietary supplement makers to put four health claims on their labels. > The agency said the claims failed its test of "significant scientific > agreement." But the United State Court of Appeals for the District of > Columbia Circuit held that the First Amendment requires a "preference > for disclosure over outright suppression." > With this background, Mr. Troy remarked, "some have said that it would > be almost legal malpractice if we did not think about the implications > of the First Amendment decisions that came down recently." > He added, "As a lawyer, my job is to prevent the agency from being > sued, and losing." > In comments to the F.D.A., many companies said regulations were needed > to protect the public health, but asked that some of the current ones > be relaxed. > Dr. Rhona Applebaum, executive vice president for scientific and > regulatory affairs at the National Food Processors Association, > describes agency regulations as "command and control." > Dr. Applebaum added: "The way it stands now, any type of implied > disease benefit, the agency throws it into our faces: ‘No, you can’t > do it. You need a new drug approval.’ We’re saying no way, not if the > information we are providing is substantiated by science." > For example, Dr. Applebaum said, many studies suggest that dietary > calcium is associated with lower blood pressure. But the F.D.A. does > not find the evidence conclusive. Food manufacturers would be happy to > put in disclaimers, she said. "You could say, `While inconclusive, new > research seems to indicate . . .’ or ‘Preliminary evidence suggests > that calcium promotes healthy blood pressure.’ But right now we can’t > say it." > Manufacturers of drugs and medical devices request more leeway in > distributing articles on new uses of their products. Once a drug or > medical device is approved for one use, doctors can use it for any > other purpose, at their discretion. But the F.D.A. says that if a > company distributes articles on unapproved uses of a product, that is > tantamount to promoting it. > Boston Scientific, which makes medical devices, questioned those > regulations. Tony Blank, the company’s manager of corporate regulatory > affairs, said the company could not even provide a published paper on > the risks of using one of its devices in an unapproved way. > "When it becomes most concerning is when the information the company > wants to provide has additional warnings to protect the patient," Mr. > Blank said. > Dr. Kessler, the former F.D.A. commissioner, says that such arguments > may sound reasonable, but adds that articles may be technically > accurate but not true. > "Let’s say there are 100 studies on a drug and one of those studies > says the drug has an effect on cancer," Dr. Kessler said. "Ninety-nine > studies show the drug does not have such effects. It is a accurate > statement that a study has found that the drug affects tumors. But it > is not true." > That is why, Dr. Kessler said, the F.D.A. insists on evaluating all > the relevant scientific data. It is the reason for its regulations on > what can be on food and drug labels, what companies can say about > drugs and medical devices that are not yet approved for marketing, > what they can say about unapproved uses for their products and what > they can say when they advertise drugs to consumers. > The concern that the statements be true, not just accurate, he said, > is why the agency "requires companies and the agency to look at all > the data and base their statements not on whether something is > technically accurate but whether it is supported by the weight of the > evidence." > Some, like David Vladeck, a lawyer who heads the litigation group for > Public Citizen, a consumer advocacy group, say that there are real > questions here, but that does not mean the answer is to deregulate. > "Given the resources that the agency and the industry have devoted to > this issue, I would be astonished if nothing comes of it," Mr. Vladeck > said. "I know Dan Troy. He’s a bright and engaging guy. But he’s not > just spinning his wheels." > But Mr. Troy said he was merely opening to the public what
… read more »
October 15, 2002 Stung by Courts, F.D.A. Rethinks Its Rules http://www.nytimes.com By Gina Kolata After losing a series of court decisions that found it in violation of the First Amendment’s guarantee of freedom of speech, the Food and Drug Administration has begun a wide-ranging review of regulations that control what the makers of drugs, supplements, food and cosmetics can say about their products. At issue is the delicate balance between a company’s right to communicate with its customers and the food and drug agency’s mandate to protect the public. But the court decisions, which included a stinging rebuke from the Supreme Court in April, have prompted the agency to ask whether it may, at times, have gone too far in its insistence that it decides when scientific truth has been established and what companies can say. At issue are regulations governing everything from what a drug company can print on a T-shirt to what a sales representative can say in the privacy of a doctor’s office. No one is advocating that false or inaccurate claims be permitted. But agency officials are asking questions like whether they can continue to prevent food companies from making health claims for their products and whether they can continue to insist that drug advertising include a full accounting of side effects and conditions that may make the drug inadvisable. The review began with a notice in The Federal Register on May 16 inviting interested parties to comment on "First Amendment issues." Hundreds replied, with wish lists, cries of alarm, hefty documents from drug company lawyers and notes from consumers who want the agency to take all shackles off the supplement industry. The comment period ended on Sept. 13, and those who wish to respond to comments have until Oct. 28. Over the next few months the agency will review the comments and decide what changes, if any, to propose in its regulations. It also expects to get a new commissioner, Dr. Mark B. McClellan, who was nominated by President Bush late last month and seems headed for a speedy confirmation. "No decision will be made without his involvement and approval," said Daniel Troy, the agency’s chief counsel. The review is not just an academic exercise, warns Dr. David A. Kessler, who was the agency’s commissioner from 1990 to 1997. "It represents a frontal attack on the fundamental responsibilities of the agency under the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act," said Dr. Kessler, who is now the dean of Yale’s School of Medicine. "I have great concerns that this is simply an attempt to deregulate while doing it in the name of the First Amendment." Others say the review is long overdue. Jonathan Emord, a lawyer who sued the F.D.A. on behalf of the First Amendment rights of supplement manufacturers and won, says the the agency has long been treading on shaky legal ground. "We are advocating that the F.D.A. undergo a change in regulatory mind-set, a First Amendment sensitivity training," Mr. Emord said. "They take the position that science must be interpreted for the public and given to them piecemeal when the regulators decide it is proven. That role of being a gatekeeper is precisely what the First Amendment was designed to prevent." Until now, the agency’s position has been that it decides what companies can say and how they can say it. Its mission of protecting the public health, the agency argued, gives it broad authority to regulate commercial speech. But Mr. Troy says recent court rulings have given the agency pause. On April 29, the Supreme Court bluntly informed the agency that it was being overly paternalistic. The question before the court was whether pharmacies that made specialized mixtures of prescription drugs could advertise or promote their products. Mr. Troy, arguing for the F.D.A., said that if pharmacies were allowed to do so they would essentially be selling prescription drugs without demonstrating safety and efficacy. "Why spend the millions of dollars to come through our approval process?" Mr. Troy asked. "It’s our fundamental power to approve drugs before they come on the market." But the Supreme Court said that restricting free speech should be a last resort, writing, "We have previously rejected the notion that the government has an interest in preventing the dissemination of truthful commercial information in order to prevent members of the public from making bad decisions with the information." Two other rulings by lower courts rebuked the agency on similar grounds. In 1998, the Federal District Court for the District of Columbia overturned F.D.A. regulations preventing companies from freely distributing information about unapproved uses for approved drugs and devices. (The agency’s challengers were represented by Mr. Troy, a constitutional lawyer who was in private practice before coming to the F.D.A. in 2001.) The court said it was not enough for the agency to argue that it was protecting the public. "To the extent that the F.D.A. is endeavoring to keep information from physicians out of concern that they will misuse that information," the federal court said, "the regulation is wholly and completely unsupportable." The decision was vacated on appeal. Another ruling, in 1999, involved the F.D.A.’s refusal to allow dietary supplement makers to put four health claims on their labels. The agency said the claims failed its test of "significant scientific agreement." But the United State Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit held that the First Amendment requires a "preference for disclosure over outright suppression." With this background, Mr. Troy remarked, "some have said that it would be almost legal malpractice if we did not think about the implications of the First Amendment decisions that came down recently." He added, "As a lawyer, my job is to prevent the agency from being sued, and losing." In comments to the F.D.A., many companies said regulations were needed to protect the public health, but asked that some of the current ones be relaxed. Dr. Rhona Applebaum, executive vice president for scientific and regulatory affairs at the National Food Processors Association, describes agency regulations as "command and control." Dr. Applebaum added: "The way it stands now, any type of implied disease benefit, the agency throws it into our faces: ‘No, you can’t do it. You need a new drug approval.’ We’re saying no way, not if the information we are providing is substantiated by science." For example, Dr. Applebaum said, many studies suggest that dietary calcium is associated with lower blood pressure. But the F.D.A. does not find the evidence conclusive. Food manufacturers would be happy to put in disclaimers, she said. "You could say, `While inconclusive, new research seems to indicate . . .’ or ‘Preliminary evidence suggests that calcium promotes healthy blood pressure.’ But right now we can’t say it." Manufacturers of drugs and medical devices request more leeway in distributing articles on new uses of their products. Once a drug or medical device is approved for one use, doctors can use it for any other purpose, at their discretion. But the F.D.A. says that if a company distributes articles on unapproved uses of a product, that is tantamount to promoting it. Boston Scientific, which makes medical devices, questioned those regulations. Tony Blank, the company’s manager of corporate regulatory affairs, said the company could not even provide a published paper on the risks of using one of its devices in an unapproved way. "When it becomes most concerning is when the information the company wants to provide has additional warnings to protect the patient," Mr. Blank said. Dr. Kessler, the former F.D.A. commissioner, says that such arguments may sound reasonable, but adds that articles may be technically accurate but not true. "Let’s say there are 100 studies on a drug and one of those studies says the drug has an effect on cancer," Dr. Kessler said. "Ninety-nine studies show the drug does not have such effects. It is a accurate statement that a study has found that the drug affects tumors. But it is not true." That is why, Dr. Kessler said, the F.D.A. insists on evaluating all the relevant scientific data. It is the reason for its regulations on what can be on food and drug labels, what companies can say about drugs and medical devices that are not yet approved for marketing, what they can say about unapproved uses for their products and what they can say when they advertise drugs to consumers. The concern that the statements be true, not just accurate, he said, is why the agency "requires companies and the agency to look at all the data and base their statements not on whether something is technically accurate but whether it is supported by the weight of the evidence." Some, like David Vladeck, a lawyer who heads the litigation group for Public Citizen, a consumer advocacy group, say that there are real questions here, but that does not mean the answer is to deregulate. "Given the resources that the agency and the industry have devoted to this issue, I would be astonished if nothing comes of it," Mr. Vladeck said. "I know Dan Troy. He’s a bright and engaging guy. But he’s not just spinning his wheels." But Mr. Troy said he was merely opening to the public what might otherwise be a private discussion within the agency. "The irony is, some who criticize us for doing it are in favor of public participation," he said. "The further irony is, It is not as if these questions would go away if we didn’t ask them. We would just have to wrestle with them within the agency." Copyright The New York Times Company *******************************************************8 Related Info: With Public Notice on First Amendment, FDA Appears on the Verge of Major Policy Shift By James V. Grimaldi Washington Post Staff Writer Monday, July 1, 2002 … read more »
Accounting Talk » Accounting » HELP – Lines 1, 3, and 5 do not match on W2s
it appears you have three problems to correct: 1. the improper ’set-up’ using some vendor’s software; 2. agreeing quarterly reports filed to annual reports (w-2,etc), as corrected, 3. and how to catch-up on amounts due. my suggestion would depend on additional facts that are not known such as : how many employees and are they related to you, how much is underwithheld, what quarter(s) did the error occur in, have you already filed 4thQ 2001, what software or is it manual the least cost and convenience are what you probably are looking for. warning though, watch out for responsibilities of a person in charge of monies that are consider held in trust, like payroll taxes. you may endup having to cover the underwithheld taxes and not the employees. you better get a local professional on this one. good luck.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know what I did wrong. I need help correcting the mistake. I mistakenly set up a payroll deduction that deducted from the paycheck before taxes were calculated. Now the "wages" in box 1 does not match box 2, (soc sec wages), or box 3 (medicare waged). How do I adjust the soc sec wages and the medicare wages? Robert
<snip ]my suggestion would depend on additional facts that are not known such as : ]how many employees and are they related to you <snip Searches on DNA and Accounting resulted in some interesting stuff on genes and genetics. Even an interesting article on forensics. Nothing on the sort of accounting discussed here. What difference does being related make? I can’t see how someones DNA could affect the way their wages are calculated.
lets split hairs shall we had it been his or his wife’s w-2 i think that my approach (perhaps not everyone’s) of dealing with the issue of underwithholding would be much different than if he made an error on 50 employees. the recommended fix could be different.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip ]my suggestion would depend on additional facts that are not known such as : ]how many employees and are they related to you <snip Searches on DNA and Accounting resulted in some interesting stuff on genes and genetics. Even an interesting article on forensics. Nothing on the sort of accounting discussed here. What difference does being related make? I can’t see how someones DNA could affect the way their wages are calculated.
Accounting Talk » Accounting » Evaporation Rate?
If you still want the benefits of the vigorous boil (better hot break and hop utilization) without having to collect that much runoff, just add some plain water to the kettle, either at the start of the boil, or partway through. FWIW, if you’re really losing 2 gallons in 60 minutes, I do think you could back the burner down a little more too…
You know, he could place a LID over the kettle to stop the evaporation. Maybe just Crack it. and he won’t lose as much if he’s worried about it… I try to get 7+ gal, from the sparge and boil to 5+ somewhere round 1.5-2.0 hours. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —
Just out of curiousity, do you have have 7.5 gallons at the start of the boil or is that when you start heating? Just wondering, you may actually be loosing 1/4 to 1/2 gallon in the time it takes to bring it up to a boil. I usually leave my kettle about 90% covered until I get to within 10 degrees of boiling, then leave it all the way off. Cheers! – Jeff
Howdy Jim, I get a good boil off too. Wonder if it’s altitude related. Here in Denver, water boils right around 200f. That would require proportionally less flame than at lower altitudes, I suppose. And that gets me wondering if barometric pressure and humidity play any role in boil off rates…
To a good first approximation neither will affect boiloff rates. The amount of *energy* it takes to boil off some water, and the temperature at which boiling occurs, are not linearly related. The humidity is less of a factor. If I dig back in my old physical chemistry books I can find more, if you care. –arne DISCLAIMER: These opinions and statements are those of the author and do not represent any views or positions of the Hewlett-Packard Co.
Good point, Jeff – you surmize correctly. I’m starting out with 7.5 gallons of wort, but I’m not sure how much I lose before teh boil actually begins. However, like you, I also put a lid on the keg (slightly ajar) ubtil I get close to boiling. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Just out of curiousity, do you have have 7.5 gallons at the start of the boil or is that when you start heating? Just wondering, you may actually be loosing 1/4 to 1/2 gallon in the time it takes to bring it up to a boil. I usually leave my kettle about 90% covered until I get to within 10 degrees of boiling, then leave it all the way off. Cheers! – Jeff
I have a King Cooker. I usually start out with 7.8 gallons to end up with around 5.3 gallons in a 2 hour boil. — Robin The Poconos
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m using a standard converted keg as a boiler with a King Kooker burner. During a 60 minute boil, I lose almost two gallons due to evaporation, which means I have to start out with about 7.5 gallons of wort. I don’t have the burner cranked up so high that the boil is overly vigorous — in fact, if I turned it down very much it would end up simmering instead of boiling. Does this seem excessive, or is it fairly normal?
I also use a King Kooker and typically lose 1.25 gal / hr. My boiling goal is to boil as vigorous as possible without boiling over. If I were you, I would check the calibration of your kettle and do not simmer your wort. —–ActiveX
| I’m using a standard converted keg as a boiler with a King Kooker | burner. During a 60 minute boil, I lose almost two gallons due to | evaporation, which means I have to start out with about 7.5 gallons of | wort. | | I don’t have the burner cranked up so high that the boil is overly | vigorous — in fact, if I turned it down very much it would end up | simmering instead of boiling. | | Does this seem excessive, or is it fairly normal?
Howdy Jim, I get a good boil off too. Wonder if it’s altitude related. Here in Denver, water boils right around 200f. That would require proportionally less flame than at lower altitudes, I suppose. And that gets me wondering if barometric pressure and humidity play any role in boil off rates… -Brett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m using a standard converted keg as a boiler with a King Kooker burner. During a 60 minute boil, I lose almost two gallons due to evaporation, which means I have to start out with about 7.5 gallons of wort. I don’t have the burner cranked up so high that the boil is overly vigorous — in fact, if I turned it down very much it would end up simmering instead of boiling. Does this seem excessive, or is it fairly normal?
If you still want the benefits of the vigorous boil (better hot break and hop utilization) without having to collect that much runoff, just add some plain water to the kettle, either at the start of the boil, or partway through. FWIW, if you’re really losing 2 gallons in 60 minutes, I do think you could back the burner down a little more too… — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m using a standard converted keg as a boiler with a King Kooker burner. During a 60 minute boil, I lose almost two gallons due to evaporation, which means I have to start out with about 7.5 gallons of wort. I don’t have the burner cranked up so high that the boil is overly vigorous — in fact, if I turned it down very much it would end up simmering instead of boiling. Does this seem excessive, or is it fairly normal?
You can also try partially covering the kettle. I find I can maintain vigerous boil w/ lower heat if the pot is 1/2 or 2/3 covered. As long as you’re venting some steam, you won’t build up DMS. Whenever I’ve toured breweries, I’ve always been amazed at how small the kettle vents are. Drew
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you still want the benefits of the vigorous boil (better hot break and hop utilization) without having to collect that much runoff, just add some plain water to the kettle, either at the start of the boil, or partway through.
FWIW, if you’re really losing 2 gallons in 60 minutes, I do think you could back the burner down a little more too…
Well, last night I started with just over 7.5 gallons in the keg (slightly more than half full), and let it go for an hour at what could best be callled a "modest" boil. It was clearly boiling, but if I had backed off the propane at all it would have reduced to a simmer. Accounting for the half gallon or so left in the kettle and absorbed by the hops (leaf, not pellets!), I figure I lost about two gallons during the boil. What would happen if I left the keg partially covered during the boil so that at least some of the steam condensed and dripped back? Would that effect the hot break or hop utilization? I’m not worried about a boilover since there’s more than enough excess capacity.
Howdy Jim,
He’s dead, Jim. Sorry, i just had to. another irrelavant post I know. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I get a good boil off too. Wonder if it’s altitude related. Here in Denver, water boils right around 200f. That would require proportionally less flame than at lower altitudes, I suppose. And that gets me wondering if barometric pressure and humidity play any role in boil off rates… -Brett I’m using a standard converted keg as a boiler with a King Kooker burner. During a 60 minute boil, I lose almost two gallons due to evaporation, which means I have to start out with about 7.5 gallons of wort. I don’t have the burner cranked up so high that the boil is overly vigorous — in fact, if I turned it down very much it would end up simmering instead of boiling. Does this seem excessive, or is it fairly normal?
That’s about what I koose in my converted keg over the course of an hour. I don’t understand what the problem is…you know the boiloff rate, you compensate. Doesn’t really matter what other people get, it’s knowing what your system does. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m using a standard converted keg as a boiler with a King Kooker burner. During a 60 minute boil, I lose almost two gallons due to evaporation, which means I have to start out with about 7.5 gallons of wort. I don’t have the burner cranked up so high that the boil is overly vigorous — in fact, if I turned it down very much it would end up simmering instead of boiling. Does this seem excessive, or is it fairly normal?
I’m using a standard converted keg as a boiler with a King Kooker burner. During a 60 minute boil, I lose almost two gallons due to evaporation, which means I have to start out with about 7.5 gallons of wort. I don’t have the burner cranked up so high that the boil is overly vigorous — in fact, if I turned it down very much it would end up simmering instead of boiling. Does this seem excessive, or is it fairly normal?
Accounting Talk » Accounting » A/P stand alone needed
i need a accounts payable system do not want to use any other accounting funtion any recomendations ?? can quick books or one write plus or peechtree be used as a stand alone A/P (will need reports to post to existing G/L) thanks charlie
Why dont you use the simple method of PeachTree or Quicken
Accounting Talk » Accounting Software » RESULT: misc.activism.general passes 756: 323
I am pleased to announce that misc.activism.general has passed by a vote of 756 in favor to 323 against. There being more than 100 yes votes than no votes and at least twice as many yes votes than no votes (in fact, 756 – 646 = 110 more than twice), the group passes. The voting tally is enclosed below. I am also pleased to announce that we will live up to our promise to hold a re-naming "referendum" of some sort. ACTIV-L and the progressive community recognize the folly of "peace through superior fire-power" all too well, and despite the (self-admitted, in several votes) anti-misc.activism.general "activist" drive by those who declared they hated everything it stands for, I believe that nevertheless a significant fraction of those 323 NO voters were either potential friends who didn’t like the name or otherwise apathetic Net-folk who were bothered by that name. Whatever this fraction actually was, it is too many potential co-activists to alienate, and too many otherwise "live and let live" Netters to annoy, especially by an activist group wishing to promote positive social change in this country and this world. - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – Referendum: Included below is an idea for a referendum. Over the next 4-7 days I am asking people to post to news.groups and alt.activism (and other groups if they wish) both alternative "referendum" suggestions and, if they wish, alternatives to the list of possible alternate-names included below. (I will actually be out of state until the 14th) Everyone is free to suggest whatever they want, but clearly it would behoove those who were genuine in their opposition to the name only to counter the cries likely to come from at least a small group of people that we cannot hold a referendum and that we would need to start all over again. In a choice between the delay and huge amount of work involved in starting over on the one hand and keeping misc.activism.general on the other, we would choose the later; but there is no reason whatsoever why a minority of unreasonable voices should dictate to us (the supporters/Yes voters and the group of those preferring a different name) the unreasonable situation of having to choose between these two options. Ok, I’ve explained before why "talk" ; "peacenet" and "left" are not appropriate (*) — here are some alternate names I feel would be reasonable alternatives: [(*) I strongly suggest those who have not read the New Newsgroup Proposal fully to do so if they wish to participate in the discussion; send the 1-line command GET NEWSGRP PROPOSAL ACTIV-L to First, misc.activism.progressive or misc.activism.progressive.general misc.activism.progressive.("misc" or other alt. to "general") as well as misc.progressive.(general/misc/etc) or, something I just thought of recently which would reflect the PACH ("Progressive Alliance Clearing House") mega-project well, as well as convey a ".general," how about: misc.progressive.clearinghouse - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – Here’s the idea I have for a referendum, something which will likely be both quick and satisfying for those whose disagreement with m.a.g. was genuinely because of the name, and upset those with other agenda. Suppose we wish to consider names X, Y and Z as alternate names. Only those who have participated in the voting may participate in this referendum ("only" those 1,079..), as follows: (*)Those who have voted YES may say "I would have voted against the same group with this alternate name" and (*)those who have voted NO may say "I would have voted for the same group with this alternate name" (or would have abstained, or even just prefer that name) (*) It is clear enough that no sane argument could be made that an abstainer would have voted NO because of a re-naming in the "direction" we are offering, while the reverse is certainly not the case; there may well have been quite a number of "almost"/"would be" supporters who abstained, rather than voting YES, because of uneasiness with the name; however, I am willing, and I’m reasonably confident ACTIV-Lers in general are willing, to exclude this group as well from the referendum as another gesture of good will. In fact, excluding unfitting names I mentioned above (I listed only three though I’m sure some people could come up with more), it can be said that with a fair amount of confidence that there will be very few if any objections of the first (*) category, in particular, to the half a dozen suggested alternate names I listed above. In fact, we need make no apology to being a bit enamored of this particular group of possible alternates since *by far* the most popular alternate name mailed in with NO votes (or even YES votes) was the "progressive" these above. - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – We will of course be contacting the net administrators one notifies when a group passes about these ideas; I see no reason why a referendum of the type outlined above would be troublesome or disagreeable for them in any way, but again, it would behoove that set of genuine "friendly opposition" people and "otherwise apathetic but reasonable" folks to drown out the "purist" (misnomer) cries which may arise against this proposal, which we are offering as (perhaps a selfish one — we don’t want to loose those who potentially would join the various activist projects we are working on) friendly gesture towards those who were genuine in their stated opposition to the group’s name. Enclosed is the vote tally. Note that I counted votes by the principle of reasonableness (what did the voter intend?), so that a "NO vote" by a prominent Net person which was actually against "talk.activism.general", techinically not a NO vote since the correct group name was not given, was actually counted. There were other such "no" votes. I even counted: *Newsgroups: *news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.activism,soc.rights.human,s *oc.culture.latin-america,soc.motss,talk.environment *Organization: Ericsson Telecom AB, Stockholm, Sweden * As a no vote (hint: see the "cc:" line). There was one YES vote for "misc.activ.general" and one for "misc.activism.gen" which I also counted, although the NO voters tended to stray more, for "creativity." As suggested by the margin of over 100 votes, the outcome would have been the same without this laxness/generosity/whatever. –Harel NO votes NO 8243P%NAVPGS.bitnet (Ruth Ann White) NO DARGAB%IUBACS.bitnet NO FRARALH%YALEVM.bitnet NO FREUND_C%JHUVMS.bitnet NO HOLTHOR%YALEVM.bitnet NO IF05432%FARMNTON.bitnet NO REWOICC%ERENJ.bitnet NO SYVDK%TJUVM.BITNET (David J. Kernen) NO YBMCU%CUNYVM.bitnet (Ben Yalow) NO bu.edu!bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU!think!trystro!root (Richard Nickle) NO bu.edu!sequent.UUCP!techbook.com!laura (Laura Gillespie) NO bu.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ames!juts.ccc.amdahl.com!ked01 (Kim DeVaughn) NO ch%dce.ie (Charles Bryant) NO chance!john (John R MacMillan) NO … read more »
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Everyone is free to suggest whatever they want, but clearly it would behoove those who were genuine in their opposition to the name only to counter the cries likely to come from at least a small group of people that we cannot hold a referendum and that we would need to start all over again. In a choice between the delay and huge amount of work involved in starting over on the one hand and keeping misc.activism.general on the other, we would choose the later; but there is no reason whatsoever why a minority of unreasonable voices should dictate to us (the supporters/Yes voters and the group of those preferring a different name) the unreasonable situation of having to choose between these two options. If the referendum is done in accordance with the group creation rules, this site will honor that referendum. If not, not. Your actions within a newsgroup may be conducted with any method you prefer. Your actions in attempting to modify the global namespace must comply with the global rules.
Could you please be more explicit as to "by the rules?" The rules I have seen do not address name-changes. To suggest a full CFV to kill the old and/or a CFV to start a new one seems "extremist" to me, but which I mean no more or less than it would take a *long* time and a *lot* of work. What I am proposing, Steve, is that (i) names be suggested (ii) those who had been among the voters be able to say if other proposed names are ok with them. I think most/all of the "progressive" variations, the most commontly suggested by those objecting/ill-at-ease with the name regardless of their vote, would be "ok" with the YES voters. The name (not including "misc.activism.general" — see "nothing sinister" post) which gets the greatest number of oks as "not objectionable" from that group would be changed to; in a manner such that had the same people voted with that other name, the group would again have passed. Again, the outcome could only have been more in favor of the group had one of the less objectionable names been chosen. My *only* problem(s) with starting over is that huge amount of work and hence time involved. As you say, we won fair and square… For the record, my no vote was in opposition to the name — and this site *will* honor the creation of m.a.g. We puts our money where our mouth is.
…and have decided to accommodate our critics *despite* this. Now, we’d like to do this without a long delay or having to ask for formal votes from over 1,000 people all over again. Is that too much to ask? Can’t we all be reasonable and see that, for example, misc.activism.progressive.gen is a name virtually 100% of the YES voters would be happy with and *many* of the NO voters would have voted for or abtained, and change to something like that, without having a gesture of good will, living up to the referendum proposal, turn out to be something to hurt those making that gesture? Harel - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – For the record, my no vote was in opposition to the name — and this site *will* honor the creation of m.a.g. We puts our money where our mouth is.
I never said *all* our opponents were disingenuous. Just that *there exitsted* such. I’m glad you are living up to your responsibilities and allowing m.a.g.; for now, though, we will live up to what we see as ours and not start "m.a.g." posts, though I appreciate your acceptance of the vote.
I don’t much care for them either, but 1000 votes is a big vote; if they got that many off a mailing list, it was long overdue to become a newsgroup;
I agree. I argued for that during the discussion period. The only problem, as with many a group, is the name. As usual, the vote-taker got the only vote on that question. It’s still too early to tell how many sysadmins will honor it, but the voting’s done. This is the time honored "sore loser’s bitch fest" that traditionally comes after the vote.
I think it’s more than that, given the number of people (including the moderator of news.announce.newgroups!) who have declared that will not carry the group. I’ll add my name: it’ll be aliased to m.a.progressive before it shows up anywhere I have any say. — `-_-’ ‘U`
Did anybody notice that this vote list had 143 "yes" votes that came via cdp and zero "no" votes from there?
Does rather suggest that the vote publicity was focused on only those who’d vote the part line. A group that has _no_ dissenters is so brainwashed it is too scary to contemplate. Yeah, and I also noted the flood of yes votes from BITNET sites.
Well, in terms of sites actually carrying USENet news, BITNET is kind of small potatoes, but they do have a pretty substantial presense in every vote I’ve seen If I’m not mistaken (and I could be) BITNET is not connected to Usenet.
It’s gatewayed (used to be several places; now that the net’s faster, might be just one) to USENet for mail and news, and news software exists for the EBCDIC crowd, but I’d surely guess the numbers of actual news readers/participants are relatively small, compared to the rest of the net. I could be horrendously wrong, though. Anybody know? I suspect a plea for votes was sent out on the ACTIV-L mailing list and the group knee-jerked its way to life.
I don’t much care for them either, but 1000 votes is a big vote; if they got that many off a mailing list, it was long overdue to become a newsgroup; remember, that’s the origin of the "100 votes" part of the rule. I think they’ve proved they have access of some sort to a lot of folks responsive to their call. It’s still too early to tell how many sysadmins will honor it, but the voting’s done. This is the time honored "sore loser’s bitch fest" that traditionally comes after the vote. I would be interested in a further HONEST accounting of the votes.
I’d be much more interested in a meta-question: Just who is supposed to vote in these elections? The current rule in practice is: if you _can_ vote, then you _may_ vote. But 5/6ths of the users at sites receiving USENet news don’t read news _at_ _all_. Are these the folks we want deciding on the future of the newsgroups, and if not, what, if anything, can be done to prevent a flood of votes being solicited outside the visible channels, from people who have no interest in the results, but just vote in response to pressure tactics? Or, is it simply elitism to try to restrict the franchise in any way? We saw the same thing in the SCO interest group vote, there was some fairly clumpy voting in the Amiga reorganization, and probably lots of others. Is it _fair_ to go out on the quad and recruit a hundred Ultimate playing strangers to go in and get accounts just to vote for rec.sport.disk? Kent, the man from xanth. — Personally, of course, I think you should get a vote per article posted in the last year, but that’s ’cause I just topped one of the news.lists postings again. ;-)
Did anybody notice that this vote list had 143 "yes" votes that came via cdp and zero "no" votes from there? — "If God can do anything, can he float a loan even he can’t repay?" –Blair Houghton, cross-posting
Did anybody notice that this vote list had 143 "yes" votes that came via cdp and zero "no" votes from there?
Yeah, and I also noted the flood of yes votes from BITNET sites. If I’m not mistaken (and I could be) BITNET is not connected to Usenet. I suspect a plea for votes was sent out on the ACTIV-L mailing list and the group knee-jerked its way to life. I would be interested in a further HONEST accounting of the votes. Cheers, Chris Chris Mauritz |Show me the way to the