Question:

Gary, is that "ver-bo-si-tized", long o with the accent on the -bo-?

You got me on that one John! TTUL Gary

Response:

Just started an intermediate accounting course and I disagree with the way a refundable security deposit was recorded in a problem I’m attempting.  The problem asks for the necessary end of period adjusting entry to record the ‘earned’ portion of the unearned rent.   The existing balance in the ‘unearned rent revenue’ account consists of all the paid up rent into the following year plus a refundable security deposit.  In my opinion, because the security deposit is expected to be refunded to the tenant at the completion of the lease, it should not be considered revenue (either unearned or earned).  The authors of the book may consider it acceptable to include the deposit in unearned rent revenue, but there is no way that any portion of the deposit should be moved into the revenue account as earned rent.  I would put the security deposit in it’s own liability account (’security deposits held’?) and leave it there until it is either returned to the tenant or forfeited by the tenant.  Any comments?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just started an intermediate accounting course and I disagree with the way a refundable security deposit was recorded in a problem I’m attempting.  The problem asks for the necessary end of period adjusting entry to record the ‘earned’ portion of the unearned rent.   The existing balance in the ‘unearned rent revenue’ account consists of all the paid up rent into the following year plus a refundable security deposit.  In my opinion, because the security deposit is expected to be refunded to the tenant at the completion of the lease, it should not be considered revenue (either unearned or earned).  The authors of the book may consider it acceptable to include the deposit in unearned rent revenue, but there is no way that any portion of the deposit should be moved into the revenue account as earned rent.  I would put the security deposit in it’s own liability account (’security deposits held’?) and leave it there until it is either returned to the tenant or forfeited by the tenant.  Any comments?

 I would agree with you  (depending on the rent contract)

Response:

But in a sense isn’t a refundable deposit the same thing as a issuing a bond from the apartments perspective? at the end of the bonds life they have to pay the bond off, but in the mean time, it is considered income (minus interest payments)? Confused Man

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just started an intermediate accounting course and I disagree with the way a refundable security deposit was recorded in a problem I’m attempting. The problem asks for the necessary end of period adjusting entry to record the ‘earned’ portion of the unearned rent.   The existing balance in the ‘unearned rent revenue’ account consists of all the paid up rent into the following year plus a refundable security deposit.  In my opinion, because the security deposit is expected to be refunded to the tenant at the completion of the lease, it should not be considered revenue (either unearned or earned).  The authors of the book may consider it acceptable to include the deposit in unearned rent revenue, but there is no way that any portion of the deposit should be moved into the revenue account as earned rent.  I would put the security deposit in it’s own liability account (’security deposits held’?) and leave it there until it is either returned to the tenant or forfeited by the tenant.  Any comments?  I would agree with you  (depending on the rent contract)

Response:

I agree. A refundable security deposit should not be put in "unearned revenue". To credit them to a "security deposits" liability account is how I would handle it. However, if the security deposit is a "last month’s rent deposit" and will be used to pay the final rental upon receiving notice from the tenant, then the "unearned revenue" or "last months rent deposit" would be the appropriate handling. It just depends on whether it is fully refundable or applied to the last month’s rent. — Stephanie Serba, AICIA Partner, Durham Business Outsource Accounting & Technology smserba <at dbo <dot ca www.dbo.ca

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just started an intermediate accounting course and I disagree with the way a refundable security deposit was recorded in a problem I’m attempting. The problem asks for the necessary end of period adjusting entry to record the ‘earned’ portion of the unearned rent.   The existing balance in the ‘unearned rent revenue’ account consists of all the paid up rent into the following year plus a refundable security deposit.  In my opinion, because the security deposit is expected to be refunded to the tenant at the completion of the lease, it should not be considered revenue (either unearned or earned).  The authors of the book may consider it acceptable to include the deposit in unearned rent revenue, but there is no way that any portion of the deposit should be moved into the revenue account as earned rent.  I would put the security deposit in it’s own liability account (’security deposits held’?) and leave it there until it is either returned to the tenant or forfeited by the tenant.  Any comments?  I would agree with you  (depending on the rent contract)

Response:

No.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But in a sense isn’t a refundable deposit the same thing as a issuing a bond from the apartments perspective? at the end of the bonds life they have to pay the bond off, but in the mean time, it is considered income (minus interest payments)? Confused Man Just started an intermediate accounting course and I disagree with the way a refundable security deposit was recorded in a problem I’m attempting. The problem asks for the necessary end of period adjusting entry to record the ‘earned’ portion of the unearned rent.   The existing balance in the ‘unearned rent revenue’ account consists of all the paid up rent into the following year plus a refundable security deposit.  In my opinion, because the security deposit is expected to be refunded to the tenant at the completion of the lease, it should not be considered revenue (either unearned or earned).  The authors of the book may consider it acceptable to include the deposit in unearned rent revenue, but there is no way that any portion of the deposit should be moved into the revenue account as earned rent.  I would put the security deposit in it’s own liability account (’security deposits held’?) and leave it there until it is either returned to the tenant or forfeited by the tenant.  Any comments?  I would agree with you  (depending on the rent contract)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just started an intermediate accounting course and I disagree with the way a refundable security deposit was recorded in a problem I’m attempting.  The problem asks for the necessary end of period adjusting entry to record the ‘earned’ portion of the unearned rent.   The existing balance in the ‘unearned rent revenue’ account consists of all the paid up rent into the following year plus a refundable security deposit.  In my opinion, because the security deposit is expected to be refunded to the tenant at the completion of the lease, it should not be considered revenue (either unearned or earned).  The authors of the book may consider it acceptable to include the deposit in unearned rent revenue, but there is no way that any portion of the deposit should be moved into the revenue account as earned rent.  I would put the security deposit in it’s own liability account (’security deposits held’?) and leave it there until it is either returned to the tenant or forfeited by the tenant.  Any comments?

John, I would agree that the rent deposit should be recorded into a separate account.  It is easier to keep track of that way and more clear.  In real life, an organization might have 100 or more tenant security deposits to account for.  If all of these funds were labeled as unearned revenue, it may mislead the user of the financial statements into believing that all of this unearned revenue (or "deferred revenue" as I like to call it) will eventually be recognized. In defense of the author of the textbook, he or she is apparantly taking the point of view that since the Unearned Rent account and Tenant Deposit account are both liability accounts, it is not necessary to distinguish between the two. Preston Singleton, CPA Austin, Texas  

Response:

Thank you all for the help – my world is once again in order. Gary, is that "ver-bo-si-tized", long o with the accent on the -bo-? John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi John We always had in our chart of accounts an entry named ‘Security Deposits’, which is an ‘Other Current Liability’ account. TTUL Gary Just started an intermediate accounting course and I disagree with the way a refundable security deposit was recorded in a problem I’m attempting. The problem asks for the necessary end of period adjusting entry to record the ‘earned’ portion of the unearned rent.   The existing balance in the ‘unearned rent revenue’ account consists of all the paid up rent into the following year plus a refundable security deposit.  In my opinion, because the security deposit is expected to be refunded to the tenant at the completion of the lease, it should not be considered revenue (either unearned or earned).  The authors of the book may consider it acceptable to include the deposit in unearned rent revenue, but there is no way that any portion of the deposit should be moved into the revenue account as earned rent.  I would put the security deposit in it’s own liability account (’security deposits held’?) and leave it there until it is either returned to the tenant or forfeited by the tenant.  Any comments?

Response:

Hi John We always had in our chart of accounts an entry named ‘Security Deposits’, which is an ‘Other Current Liability’ account. TTUL Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Just started an intermediate accounting course and I disagree with the way a refundable security deposit was recorded in a problem I’m attempting.  The problem asks for the necessary end of period adjusting entry to record the ‘earned’ portion of the unearned rent.   The existing balance in the ‘unearned rent revenue’ account consists of all the paid up rent into the following year plus a refundable security deposit.  In my opinion, because the security deposit is expected to be refunded to the tenant at the completion of the lease, it should not be considered revenue (either unearned or earned).  The authors of the book may consider it acceptable to include the deposit in unearned rent revenue, but there is no way that any portion of the deposit should be moved into the revenue account as earned rent.  I would put the security deposit in it’s own liability account (’security deposits held’?) and leave it there until it is either returned to the tenant or forfeited by the tenant.  Any comments?

Response:

Question:

OK,OK she can have the toaster. It’s just that she had all the furniture, I am sitting in am empty (mostly) house with all the old reject furniture she didn’t want and daMn little of that. Sigh almosy like being in college again, but older and wiser than that time

Try to look at it as "liberating".   I had to start over with not much of anything either.   I learned to dumpster-dive, and actually got some stuff that wasn’t too bad (from quick evictions in the apartment building).

Response:

In your particular case I might suggest a slip and oops near the door resulting in it’s unfortunate future inability to lock…. It’s your stuff too… she’s got no right to lock everything up.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My soon-to-be-ex spouse has proceeded to lock up nearly every item in the house – locked in her room & she has the only key.  Also taking all gifts she gave me in 17 1/2 years (locked up too). Even locked up all the towels so I had go and buy one for myself.  Locked up TV also so no TV in house. I consider myself "separated" because of the goings on. Perhaps not physically separated (just address sharing) but emotionally separated. I still fee for her but I can not continue this way and know that the end will come – its inevitable. I like your "fresh canvas" outlook and will remember it – Thanks! — Well she finally moved out. Didn’t want  to give me the keys "ggod luck getting the locks rekeyed. Went to ACE haedware, got in through the dog door. Changed the locks in 15 minutes and $15.00 and was back home. She took just about everything, hers, mine and the joint. Left me with 2 of the dogs (the best 2  I think, the shepherd and the terror,er terrier ). Well it is worth it, I can start over again. Appt to see the lawyer, all of the community property will be accounted for, as well as the equity loan on the house(all of three months and she spent almost $6, 000. with no accounting for it.) Was really depressed, the house as so empty, then had a mind change; the house was actually a blank canvas, a chance to  start over again; but i would still like my toaster back. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

but i would still like my toaster back.

Toasters are cheap enough.

Response:

My soon-to-be-ex spouse has proceeded to lock up nearly every item in the house – locked in her room & she has the only key.  Also taking all gifts she gave me in 17 1/2 years (locked up too). Even locked up all the towels so I had go and buy one for myself.  Locked up TV also so no TV in house.  I consider myself "separated" because of the goings on. Perhaps not physically separated (just address sharing) but emotionally separated. I still fee for her but I can not continue this way and know that the end will come – its inevitable. I like your "fresh canvas" outlook and will remember it – Thanks! —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well she finally moved out. Didn’t want  to give me the keys "ggod luck getting the locks rekeyed. Went to ACE haedware, got in through the dog door. Changed the locks in 15 minutes and $15.00 and was back home. She took just about everything, hers, mine and the joint. Left me with 2 of the dogs (the best 2  I think, the shepherd and the terror,er terrier ). Well it is worth it, I can start over again. Appt to see the lawyer, all of the community property will be accounted for, as well as the equity loan on the house(all of three months and she spent almost $6, 000. with no accounting for it.) Was really depressed, the house as so empty, then had a mind change; the house was actually a blank canvas, a chance to  start over again; but i would still like my toaster back. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why not go over to her place and get *your* stuff.  If you need to, take a friend. Well she finally moved out. Didn’t want  to give me the keys "ggod luck getting the locks rekeyed. Went to ACE haedware, got in through the dog door. Changed the locks in 15 minutes and $15.00 and was back home. She took just about everything, hers, mine and the joint. Left me with 2 of the dogs (the best 2  I think, the shepherd and the terror,er terrier ). Well it is worth it, I can start over again. Appt to see the lawyer, all of the community property will be accounted for, as well as the equity loan on the house(all of three months and she spent almost $6, 000. with no accounting for it.) Was really depressed, the house as so empty, then had a mind change; the house was actually a blank canvas, a chance to  start over again; but i would still like my toaster back. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Moved, no forwarding —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

but i would still like my toaster back. Toasters are cheap enough.

That’s not the point, it was mine., she took almost everything else. Goddamit I want a small victory in all this —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Is there any way for you to find out where she moved (so you can get your personal stuff)?  I bet there is, if you look into it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why not go over to her place and get *your* stuff.  If you need to, take a friend. Well she finally moved out. Didn’t want  to give me the keys "ggod luck getting the locks rekeyed. Went to ACE haedware, got in through the dog door. Changed the locks in 15 minutes and $15.00 and was back home. She took just about everything, hers, mine and the joint. Left me with 2 of the dogs (the best 2  I think, the shepherd and the terror,er terrier ). Well it is worth it, I can start over again. Appt to see the lawyer, all of the community property will be accounted for, as well as the equity loan on the house(all of three months and she spent almost $6, 000. with no accounting for it.) Was really depressed, the house as so empty, then had a mind change; the house was actually a blank canvas, a chance to  start over again; but i would still like my toaster back. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—– Moved, no forwarding —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

but i would still like my toaster back. Toasters are cheap enough. That’s not the point, it was mine., she took almost everything else. Goddamit I want a small victory in all this

Sometimes that old piece of advice, "Choose your battles" has to come into play.

Response:

but i would still like my toaster back. Toasters are cheap enough. That’s not the point, it was mine., she took almost everything else. Goddamit I want a small victory in all this Sometimes that old piece of advice, "Choose your battles" has to come into play.

I always heard it was "chose your battles wisely". Lots of truth to it. A "small" victory? Let’s see, you’ve had the toaster how many years? Depreciate 1/5th per year. Take the current value verses replacement cost and figure it’s just another item to have toast when you want.  On the other hand, it’s an older model heavely used and it now tends to hold the toast and not pop up. Your ex has to deal with it. One morning she tries to use a knife to remove the toast and forgets to unplug it. After she picks herself off the floor she immediately goes to the phone and calls you to come get the "toaster from hell" out of her house. I took the preceeding from a "small" victory with an exgf. Yes, she was a blonde. As long as you keep your head up and be patient you’ll have better then a "small" victory. Just wait till she’s the one that has to pay a mechanic. LOL Mr.bill

Response:

I took the preceeding from a "small" victory with an exgf. Yes, she was a blonde.

Hey!  I resemble that remark!  :-)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why not go over to her place and get *your* stuff.  If you need to, take a friend. Well she finally moved out. Didn’t want  to give me the keys "ggod luck getting the locks rekeyed. Went to ACE haedware, got in through the dog door. Changed the locks in 15 minutes and $15.00 and was back home. She took just about everything, hers, mine and the joint. Left me with 2 of the dogs (the best 2  I think, the shepherd and the terror,er terrier ). Well it is worth it, I can start over again. Appt to see the lawyer, all of the community property will be accounted for, as well as the equity loan on the house(all of three months and she spent almost $6, 000. with no accounting for it.) Was really depressed, the house as so empty, then had a mind change; the house was actually a blank canvas, a chance to  start over again; but i would still like my toaster back. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—– Moved, no forwarding —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

OK,OK she can have the toaster. It’s just that she had all the furniture, I am sitting in am empty (mostly) house with all the old reject furniture she didn’t want and daMn little of that. Sigh almosy like being in college again, but older and wiser than that time —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Well she finally moved out. Didn’t want  to give me the keys "ggod luck getting the locks rekeyed. Went to ACE haedware, got in through the dog door. Changed the locks in 15 minutes and $15.00 and was back home. She took just about everything, hers, mine and the joint. Left me with 2 of the dogs (the best 2  I think, the shepherd and the terror,er terrier ). Well it is worth it, I can start over again. Appt to see the lawyer, all of the community property will be accounted for, as well as the equity loan on the house(all of three months and she spent almost $6, 000. with no accounting for it.) Was really depressed, the house as so empty, then had a mind change; the house was actually a blank canvas, a chance to  start over again; but i would still like my toaster back. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Why not go over to her place and get *your* stuff.  If you need to, take a friend. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well she finally moved out. Didn’t want  to give me the keys "ggod luck getting the locks rekeyed. Went to ACE haedware, got in through the dog door. Changed the locks in 15 minutes and $15.00 and was back home. She took just about everything, hers, mine and the joint. Left me with 2 of the dogs (the best 2  I think, the shepherd and the terror,er terrier ). Well it is worth it, I can start over again. Appt to see the lawyer, all of the community property will be accounted for, as well as the equity loan on the house(all of three months and she spent almost $6, 000. with no accounting for it.) Was really depressed, the house as so empty, then had a mind change; the house was actually a blank canvas, a chance to  start over again; but i would still like my toaster back. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Question:

That sums up the present state.  It wasn’t when I got suckered into it.

… accountancy is a generic profession.

… — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

Actually, it doesn’t.  You end up fighting for interviews in an incredibly crowded field.  Traditional accounting has been so absolutely glutted that, if there was the work available, any reasonably competent person could put together a 100 person firm of professional, competent accountants in less than a hundred days in anyone of the fifty largest cities in the USA.

accountancy is a generic profession. practice is manifold, from the traditional and mainstream (meaning, with auditing/management consultancy firms)to the more exotic, like financial portfolio management, stock/commodity trading, real estate brokering, tax, and business. you name it, and they’re at it. it amuses me no end to find CPA’s at the smallest collection firms to the high-powered portals of government. probably, it all boils down to networking. the more extensive the networks, the more "moolah" for the beancounter. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

Hi All, I often hear ppl say they work for CPA firms.  Whats the advantage in working for a CPA firm vs being an accountant in another type of business?

this was the same question i asked myself when still fresh out of college. these cpa firms normally gives "pittance" for salary. and the work, unhumanly immense! but the training is something that money can’t buy. after a stint with then, everything else is easy. And what kind of position/job duties would one expect normally when working in a CPA firm (when one is fresh out of college or has a few years of accounting experience…)

oh, lol! you get to do the meanest jobs! the most boring, most degrading, most humiliating. . . . you name it, that’s IT! but life becomes easy later on. just be patient!  good luck!   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many thanks!

Response:

Actually, it doesn’t.  You end up fighting for interviews in an incredibly crowded field.  Traditional accounting has been so absolutely glutted that, if there was the work available, any reasonably competent person could put together a 100 person firm of professional, competent accountants in less than a hundred days in anyone of the fifty largest cities in the USA.

… most humiliating. . . . you name it, that’s IT! but life becomes easy later on. just be patient!  good luck!

… — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

Yeah, that is probably part of the problem why the Enron and NASA things happend.  (And all of the other things we will find out about until the next big thing knocks this off the front page.)  I currently accepting the conclusion that the work experience at the CPA firms (they are kind of Dickensonian, Scrooge was a clerk) kind of prepared one for a lifetime of sloppy and slipshod work. My present belief is that the "Enron problem" with accountancy is half the colleges and half firm partners fault (basically all accountants in public practice).  I’ve decided not to blame the Enron employees, Enron management, or the government as I have concluded they behaved within the social norms.  (My current opinion of social norms is that they are less than optimal.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I often hear ppl say they work for CPA firms.  Whats the advantage in working for a CPA firm vs being an accountant in another type of business? And what kind of position/job duties would one expect normally when working in a CPA firm (when one is fresh out of college or has a few years of accounting experience…) Many thanks! The advantage is getting experience dealing with a great variety of situations.  The disadvantages in my experience were (1) billable hours is the only thing that matters (2) the workload and deadlines are such that quality of work suffers, but so long as they think you are productive, ie, you bill enough hours & meet the deadlines, they don’t really care about the quality of the work, so long as it is adequate.  I prefer my work to be better than adequate. (3) You end up working mainly with accountants, whereas if you are internal, provided it is a small enough business, you get to work with people with a great variety of backgrounds. For example, my day was spent with estimators, clerical people, laborers, etc, etc, in my first internal accounting job, so you’re not stuck with one occupational/personality type.  (4) When you are internal, you can see yourself as part of a team producing product X, and you can see your contribution to society as part of the team that produces product/service X. In a CPA firm, you exist mainly to produce income for partners.  But it is very good experience. This was just my own subjective experience. — sarah clark My experience as a member of the APB (Accounting Principles Board) taught me many lessons.  A major one was that most of us have a natural tendency and an incredible talent for processing new facts in such a way that our prior conclusions remain intact   — Charles Horngren

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for six years, mistake of being an accountant.  * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

Hi All, I often hear ppl say they work for CPA firms.  Whats the advantage in working for a CPA firm vs being an accountant in another type of business? And what kind of position/job duties would one expect normally when working in a CPA firm (when one is fresh out of college or has a few years of accounting experience…) Many thanks!

Response:

Response:

Hi All, I often hear ppl say they work for CPA firms.  Whats the advantage in working for a CPA firm vs being an accountant in another type of business? And what kind of position/job duties would one expect normally when working in a CPA firm (when one is fresh out of college or has a few years of accounting experience…) Many thanks!

The advantage is getting experience dealing with a great variety of situations.  The disadvantages in my experience were (1) billable hours is the only thing that matters (2) the workload and deadlines are such that quality of work suffers, but so long as they think you are productive, ie, you bill enough hours & meet the deadlines, they don’t really care about the quality of the work, so long as it is adequate.  I prefer my work to be better than adequate. (3) You end up working mainly with accountants, whereas if you are internal, provided it is a small enough business, you get to work with people with a great variety of backgrounds. For example, my day was spent with estimators, clerical people, laborers, etc, etc, in my first internal accounting job, so you’re not stuck with one occupational/personality type.  (4) When you are internal, you can see yourself as part of a team producing product X, and you can see your contribution to society as part of the team that produces product/service X. In a CPA firm, you exist mainly to produce income for partners.  But it is very good experience. This was just my own subjective experience. — sarah clark My experience as a member of the APB (Accounting Principles Board) taught me many lessons.  A major one was that most of us have a natural tendency and an incredible talent for processing new facts in such a way that our prior conclusions remain intact   — Charles Horngren

Response:

Question:

Sounds like Oracle and KPMG already have a rather good defense, the consumer was well informed.

… When a team from the university flew to Oracle’s headquarters in Redwood Shores, Calif., and then to the California Institute of Technology for a  demonstration for the Oracle software, "members of the working party were however struck by the vast effort devoted to the business process  mapping activity being undertaken by CalTech staff and by warnings about the research grants module," the report said.

… — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant. * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

That should be preserved as a classic.

… 2. ….  waste loves company

… — *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant. * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

I am suprised.  (Which is very hard to do in this day and age, in which almost nothing suprises me anymore.) I thought setting these things up was a slam dunk.  Aren’t their canned application systems, including Oracle’s, that are +90% fits for these types of application environments?

It would appear not.  The following is a copy / paste from the article. When a team from the university flew to Oracle’s headquarters in Redwood Shores, Calif., and then to the California Institute of Technology for a  demonstration for the Oracle software, "members of the working party were however struck by the vast effort devoted to the business process  mapping activity being undertaken by CalTech staff and by warnings about the research grants module," the report said. "Unfortunately these critical observations got lost in the jet-lagged confusion of the visit," it added. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am suprised.  (Which is very hard to do in this day and age, in which almost nothing suprises me anymore.) I thought setting these things up was a slam dunk.  Aren’t their canned application systems, including Oracle’s, that are +90% fits for these types of application environments? It would appear not.  The following is a copy / paste from the article. When a team from the university flew to Oracle’s headquarters in Redwood Shores, Calif., and then to the California Institute of Technology for a  demonstration for the Oracle software, "members of the working party were however struck by the vast effort devoted to the business process  mapping activity being undertaken by CalTech staff and by warnings about the research grants module," the report said. "Unfortunately these critical observations got lost in the jet-lagged confusion of the visit," it added.

So, Cambridge knew or should have known what they were buying. Does the UK have a concept of proportional liability for these sorts of suits? If so, it sounds like KPMG and Oracle may get away with not having to pay much. Regards, Bill

Response:

So, Cambridge knew or should have known what they were buying. Does the UK have a concept of proportional liability for these sorts of suits? If so, it sounds like KPMG and Oracle may get away with not having to pay much.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the UK does have such a system.  Hopefully one of our appropriately informed colleagues will weigh in with an answer. — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am suprised. (Which is very hard to do in this day and age, in which almost nothing suprises me anymore.) I thought setting these things up was a slam dunk. Aren’t their canned application systems, including Oracle’s, that are +90% fits for these types of application environments? It would appear not. The following is a copy / paste from the article. When a team from the university flew to Oracle’s headquarters in Redwood Shores, Calif., and then to the California Institute of Technology for a demonstration for the Oracle software, "members of the working party were however struck by the vast effort devoted to the business process mapping activity being undertaken by CalTech staff and by warnings about the research grants module," the report said. "Unfortunately these critical observations got lost in the jet-lagged confusion of the visit," it added.

If, as yours truly frequently has, you have performed several IT audits and or financial controllership mandates in IT functions of large organisations (with deep pockets, at least for the time being), this news is not at all surprising. Value for money is in reality only a minor concern of such orgs, a lip service item. More important are: 1. organisational politics (you become more important by    increasing your budget and control span, not the contrary);    see "The Unix Guide to Defenestration" published in July 2001 2. big guys like big guys (= waste loves company) 3. prestige: "We can afford and have tailor made IT solutions."    (even if we pay 90 % of the bill for 10 % of the functions) 4. keeping people busy 5. herd instinct (= "group think") In my experience the only large IT company which has consistently got good marks from its customers is Sun Microsystems. This has surprised me and, mind you, I own no SM stock and they are not (yet) our customers. A. Lucien Meyers, CIA, CMA — If you receive this by error, please delete and inform sender. www.consult-meyers.com recommends e-mail encryption using pgp. To Big Brother Echelon from "spook":

Response:

 THE UNIVERSITY OF Cambridge in the United Kingdom is considering possible legal action against Oracle and KPMG Consulting for a faulty computer system that the university estimates it spent $13 million installing, with the aid of the two companies.

Is it possible that the system failed because the Univ of Cambridge had a computer system that was pasted together with spit and gum? When I attended a major university in the US the computer kept crashing because  the university used a computer system that was donated to the university and an OS that was also donated. The result was a computer that crashed because the university didn’t spend a few bucks to buy a decent OS. What to do with Osama Bin Laden? Capture him, force him to undergo a sex change operation, and send him back to Afghanistan as a woman. I’m allergic to spam. Remove "No Spam" from my e-mail address to respond. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

I am suprised.  (Which is very hard to do in this day and age, in which almost nothing suprises me anymore.) I thought setting these things up was a slam dunk.  Aren’t their canned application systems, including Oracle’s, that are +90% fits for these types of application environments? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Cambridge may sue Oracle, KPMG for failed system By Laura Rohde November 9, 2001 10:02 am PT  THE UNIVERSITY OF Cambridge in the United Kingdom is considering possible legal action against Oracle and KPMG Consulting for a faulty computer system that the university estimates it spent $13 million installing, with the aid of the two companies. According to two reports published by the University of Cambridge last week, it spent five years and more than twice as much money than it had budgeted on a computerized financial system, which it calls its CAPSA (commitment accounting software system) project, that still does not produce quarterly statements to the university’s satisfaction. And though the report primarily blames the university’s management for the problems with CAPSA, it also found fault with some of its outside vendors, including Oracle and KPMG. <snip The report itself states the situation somewhat more bluntly. "Oracle supplied a product which was of poor quality. In particular, the Research Grants module is only marginally fit for purpose. Such poor quality is a feature of the software industry as a whole; it is, however, little comfort that Oracle Financials is industry-standard sub-standard. <snip http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/11/09/011109hncambridge.x… — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA

– *             Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A.                  * *  Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant. * *    From the Socialist People’s Republic of Kalifornia,      * *           the Seventh worst state for business,             * *                   Ayn Rand was right                        *

Response:

 Cambridge may sue Oracle, KPMG for failed system By Laura Rohde November 9, 2001 10:02 am PT  THE UNIVERSITY OF Cambridge in the United Kingdom is considering possible legal action against Oracle and KPMG Consulting for a faulty computer system that the university estimates it spent $13 million installing, with the aid of the two companies. According to two reports published by the University of Cambridge last week, it spent five years and more than twice as much money than it had budgeted on a computerized financial system, which it calls its CAPSA (commitment accounting software system) project, that still does not produce quarterly statements to the university’s satisfaction. And though the report primarily blames the university’s management for the problems with CAPSA, it also found fault with some of its outside vendors, including Oracle and KPMG. <snip The report itself states the situation somewhat more bluntly. "Oracle supplied a product which was of poor quality. In particular, the Research Grants module is only marginally fit for purpose. Such poor quality is a feature of the software industry as a whole; it is, however, little comfort that Oracle Financials is industry-standard sub-standard. <snip http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/11/09/011109hncambridge.x… — Jim Hudspeth, CFE, CPA http://survivalworks.com Washington, USA

Response:

Question:

How much can one earn in the US with a CPA degree, excluding taxes ?

Response:

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1;  name="a= a= Would you comment on this site….html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline;  filename="a= a= Would you comment on this site….html"

Dear Many Noia, Please do not post in html. For more on this kindly see: http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/nobin.html#html    All the best, Timo — Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance  ; University of Vaasa Acc. Journals Links  http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/opas/jott/jottjour.html

Response:

Looking for joint venture [JV] consultants-services  & finders partner. For free benefits VISIT www.LearnJobsGroup.com/gprofit.htm. To apply for a job visit www.LearnJobsGroup.com if you rather were entertained visit www.LearnJobsGroup.com/partnpic.htm. P. S. Regarding Joint Ventures (JV details are at group home www.LearnJobsGroup.com and click on joint venture proposal

Question:

If you are versed in Excel, design your own from a Schedule "E", and get the exact info you need, won’t take but a 1/2 hour or so. Francis P. Caliva Jr., CPA

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been keeping the books on my residential rental property for years with a simple ledger book, then transferring sums to my 1040 Schedule E.  This works fine except I never know whether I’m making or losing money (as opposed to making a taxable gain or loss – cerainly not the same thing.) This week I’ve been looking at small business accounting packages and they have infinitely more detail, and a completely different focus than I am accustomed to. Does anyone know of a simple, automated accounting package for rental property?  I was suprised not to find an Excel template, sample COA designed for Sch E, or a little shareware application. Thanks for your help, Frank Murray

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are on the cash basis of accounting Quicken would probably fit your needs. It’s cheap (after rebate I paid about $10 for Quiken basic99) and easy to use. You can set each property as a different class and then get profit and loss reports by class (ie property). allow you to have I’ve been keeping the books on my residential rental property for years with a simple ledger book, then transferring sums to my 1040 Schedule E.  This works fine except I never know whether I’m making or losing money (as opposed to making a taxable gain or loss – cerainly not the same thing.) This week I’ve been looking at small business accounting packages and they have infinitely more detail, and a completely different focus than I am accustomed to. Does anyone know of a simple, automated accounting package for rental property?  I was suprised not to find an Excel template, sample COA designed for Sch E, or a little shareware application. Thanks for your help, Frank Murray

Frank: Most small business accounting programs come with charts of accounts for various businesses, including QuickBooks, which has accounts for property management and many other businesses.  When you get to the point of wanting to know what your net income or loss is, there are many possibilities involved, and that is why these programs may seem complicated to you.  Although they are more complicated than a simple checkbook program, they have a lot of helpful functionality. For instance, these programs will let you keep track of income or loss by property, keep on top of amounts due from customers, and handle payroll.  QuickBooks now interfaces with Microsoft Word, which enables you to write business letters from the accounting program. You can usually select to use the cash basis instead of the accrual basis of accounting for these programs, and you do not have to use or learn every function. Regards, — Robert W. Scroggins, CPA A Texas CPA http://members.aol.com/rscrogg562/ —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

I’ve been keeping the books on my residential rental property for years with a simple ledger book, then transferring sums to my 1040 Schedule E.  This works fine except I never know whether I’m making or losing money (as opposed to making a taxable gain or loss – cerainly not the same thing.)   This week I’ve been looking at small business accounting packages and they have infinitely more detail, and a completely different focus than I am accustomed to. Does anyone know of a simple, automated accounting package for rental property?  I was suprised not to find an Excel template, sample COA designed for Sch E, or a little shareware application. Thanks for your help, Frank Murray

Response:

If you are on the cash basis of accounting Quicken would probably fit your needs. It’s cheap (after rebate I paid about $10 for Quiken basic99) and easy to use. You can set each property as a different class and then get profit and loss reports by class (ie property). allow you to have – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been keeping the books on my residential rental property for years with a simple ledger book, then transferring sums to my 1040 Schedule E.  This works fine except I never know whether I’m making or losing money (as opposed to making a taxable gain or loss – cerainly not the same thing.) This week I’ve been looking at small business accounting packages and they have infinitely more detail, and a completely different focus than I am accustomed to. Does anyone know of a simple, automated accounting package for rental property?  I was suprised not to find an Excel template, sample COA designed for Sch E, or a little shareware application. Thanks for your help, Frank Murray

Response:

Question:

Try Navision Financials at: www.navision-us.com Ron Litt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am the I..S. Manager  a $30M company that specializes in the repair, refurbishing, and resale of telecommunication, cellular, and data transmission products at multiple locations. We are currently running SBT Pro Series (heavily modified and not yet Y2K compliant) at one site, and an internally developed vertical application written in BBx at another location.  We need to standardize on one platform and package that will have the following features:     1. Adequate speed over a T1 WAN link.     2. Standard Accounting modules such as AR, AP, PO, IC, etc..     3. Strong Manufacuting Control that would include RA tracking, serialization, bar code support, multiple warehousing, etc..     4. Support 3000 transactions a month, most at $1000.00 per transaction.     5. Support approximately 150 concurrent users.     6. Y2K compliant, and deployable before the millennium change. Additionally, it needs to support a "depot repair" type environment with strong control of customer owned equipment and the repair processes. Any information you could provide would be most appreciated.

Response:

Consider calling SBT’s PreSales line at 800.944.1000 (when the thing starts talking, press 0 and ask the operator for PreSales) You might be surprised with what’s available now… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try Navision Financials at: www.navision-us.com Ron Litt I am the I..S. Manager  a $30M company that specializes in the repair, refurbishing, and resale of telecommunication, cellular, and data transmission products at multiple locations. We are currently running SBT Pro Series (heavily modified and not yet Y2K compliant) at one site, and an internally developed vertical application written in BBx at another location.  We need to standardize on one platform and package that will have the following features:     1. Adequate speed over a T1 WAN link.     2. Standard Accounting modules such as AR, AP, PO, IC, etc..     3. Strong Manufacuting Control that would include RA tracking, serialization, bar code support, multiple warehousing, etc..     4. Support 3000 transactions a month, most at $1000.00 per transaction.     5. Support approximately 150 concurrent users.     6. Y2K compliant, and deployable before the millennium change. Additionally, it needs to support a "depot repair" type environment with strong control of customer owned equipment and the repair processes. Any information you could provide would be most appreciated.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am the I..S. Manager  a $30M company that specializes in the repair, refurbishing, and resale of telecommunication, cellular, and data transmission products at multiple locations. We are currently running SBT Pro Series (heavily modified and not yet Y2K compliant) at one site, and an internally developed vertical application written in BBx at another location.  We need to standardize on one platform and package that will have the following features:     1. Adequate speed over a T1 WAN link.     2. Standard Accounting modules such as AR, AP, PO, IC, etc..     3. Strong Manufacuting Control that would include RA tracking, serialization, bar code support, multiple warehousing, etc..     4. Support 3000 transactions a month, most at $1000.00 per transaction.     5. Support approximately 150 concurrent users.     6. Y2K compliant, and deployable before the millennium change. Additionally, it needs to support a "depot repair" type environment with strong control of customer owned equipment and the repair processes. Any information you could provide would be most appreciated.

check this out – http://www.cfonet.com/html/98MAcfo.html  it compares SBT with other mid-range packages

Response:

I am the I..S. Manager  a $30M company that specializes in the repair, refurbishing, and resale of telecommunication, cellular, and data transmission products at multiple locations. We are currently running SBT Pro Series (heavily modified and not yet Y2K compliant) at one site, and an internally developed vertical application written in BBx at another location.  We need to standardize on one platform and package that will have the following features:     1. Adequate speed over a T1 WAN link.     2. Standard Accounting modules such as AR, AP, PO, IC, etc..     3. Strong Manufacuting Control that would include RA tracking, serialization, bar code support, multiple warehousing, etc..     4. Support 3000 transactions a month, most at $1000.00 per transaction.     5. Support approximately 150 concurrent users.     6. Y2K compliant, and deployable before the millennium change. Additionally, it needs to support a "depot repair" type environment with strong control of customer owned equipment and the repair processes. Any information you could provide would be most appreciated.

Response:

Question:

I recall seeing a film from the U.K. called "The Accountant" on TV a few years back here in Canada.  The accountant, if i remember correctly, was using publicly filed information and trying to find who committed a crime. It struck me odd at the time though as the corporations  seemed to be privately owned.  Do privately owned companies in the UK have to disclose certain financial information publicly?  

Of course.  Because they’re taking advantage of limited liability, they have to disclose their financial affairs.  Remember that there are other users of accounts than just the shareholders. I’d say there’s an argument for subsidiary companies to be freed from producing accounts (currently they must produce full stats) but I’d certainly criticise heavily any moves to remove the obligation for ordinary private companies. Restrictions on public companies are more onerous. — "If you want to look at my feet, say so," said the young man.  "But don’t be a God-damned sneak about it."                               (from "A Perfect Day for Bananafish")

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – |I am working on a feature film screenplay whose hero is an accountant (!) | |I am looking for anyone familiar with auditing and accounting in California |who can answer some questions for me about, for example, how money is |laundered through a business and what the audit trail would be – and at what |point the IRS would get interested. | |This is a genuine enquiry and I can provide bona fides if necessary. | |Anyone out there? You may want to contact FINCEN.  They have a web site.  They are a law enforcement information center run by the Treasury Department with an emphasis on money laundering.  Their capabilities are amazing; you ought to touch bases with them; it might juice up your screenplay with realism.  I’d have to look for the site but you can probably find a link at www.ustreas.gov J. Ime  (Reverse domain *&* suffix letters to respond by e-mail)

If you want to launder money, the first thing you need is a business that deals in lots and lots of cash, the more the better.  This is because the biggest challenge facing the money launderer is getting his money into the banking system.  There have been numerous schemes over the years to get money into the banking system, and counter measures by the authorities – most notably the requirement of all US banks to report all cash deposits exceeding US$10,000 (note, "exceeding US$10,000" and not "US$10,000 or more").  A popular trick, known as "smurfing" is the deposit of large numbers of sub US$10K sums,  but this requires lots of manpower to make lots of deposits ie lots of "little men" or smurfs! Another common trick is to give illegal money a veneer of respectability, eg buying casino chips for cash, playing the tables all night, and deliberately losing, say 20%, then cashing the chips and asking for a cheque (check – US!) to present to your bank.  Another trick has been to arrange a loan from a compliant bank, so when asked where you got the money from you can say (and have the paper work to prove) that you borrowed it from the bank.  Several months later you can  settle the loan with a wire transfer from an overseas bank (probably a branch of the same bank) here it is easier to deposit the cash.  If this is loan/ payback is all arranged as a whole package then it may be known as a "cash collateralised loan". It has also been popular to export cash from the US to a country where the controls over cash deposits are much less stringent -the rules are tighter now but various carribbean islands and Panama have been popular.  US authorities have found dollars concealed in  crates of car parts and the false bottoms of bottles of bull semen being exported from the USA. Anything more required?? – post your message. Doc

Response:

I suggest you contact a Certified Fraud Examiner, those guys really get off on that kind of stuff–and in some cases, CFE’s were former IRS agents, so they could provide you with both sides of the equations.  If you are interested, I could get the names and numbers of a couple of CFE’s that I know; however, they are located in Michigan. Sincerely, Joe Boswell, CPA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – |I am working on a feature film screenplay whose hero is an accountant (!) | |I am looking for anyone familiar with auditing and accounting in California |who can answer some questions for me about, for example, how money is |laundered through a business and what the audit trail would be – and at what |point the IRS would get interested. | |This is a genuine enquiry and I can provide bona fides if necessary. | |Anyone out there?

Response:

I am working on a feature film screenplay whose hero is an accountant (!) I am looking for anyone familiar with auditing and accounting in California who can answer some questions for me about, for example, how money is laundered through a business and what the audit trail would be – and at what point the IRS would get interested. This is a genuine enquiry and I can provide bona fides if necessary. Anyone out there? — Johnny Deadman

Response:

Wake me up when it gets on the "big screen!" ps:  The only movie I can remember that featured a CPA was an old black and white movie probably from the 1950’s or 1960’s. The CPA was also a Notary Public and in doing that function, he came upon the bad guys, etc. Best regards, Al Gershen, Grants Pass, OR, USA Have a good day (or night) on the web. Also, WEBTV "really" works great!

Response:

Wake me up when it gets on the "big screen!" ps:  The only movie I can remember that featured a CPA was an old black and white movie probably from the 1950’s or 1960’s. The CPA was also a Notary Public and in doing that function, he came upon the bad guys, etc.

Actually KPMG is sponsoring a number of films which feature accountants (I seem to recall the number 100 mentioned!).  The first and only one so far is Shooting Fish which gives KPMG a mention during the film – cute eh? Other notable accountants in celluloid can be found in… – The Untouchables – Exotica – Shallow Grave (nice scene inside an "old style" accountancy firm) – Amateur (accountant goes mad!) — "If you want to look at my feet, say so," said the young man.  "But don’t be a God-damned sneak about it."                               (from "A Perfect Day for Bananafish")

Response:

Wake me up when it gets on the "big screen!" ps:  The only movie I can remember that featured a CPA was an old black and white movie probably from the 1950’s or 1960’s. The CPA was also a Notary Public and in doing that function, he came upon the bad guys, etc.

One film I remember from the 1950s was ‘Executive Suite’, which I decided to see it as part of my accounting studies. I think Fred Marsh played the part of a scheming accountant who was aiming for power in an industrial company. A few years later, ‘Accountancy’ reviewed a book called the ‘Speaking Eye’, which was about an accountant playing the part of a detective. I read it to add interest to my life when I was too involved in humdrum work. Since then, I’ve discovered that truth can be more fascinating than fiction. I suppose that when I write my memoirs, the film rights will be in demand. Roger Standing FCA

Response:

Don’t forget ‘Weekend at Bernie’s’ which featured a couple of company accountants uncoering their boss’s fraud! Any other movies with accountants out there? Jonathon Power

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wake me up when it gets on the "big screen!" ps:  The only movie I can remember that featured a CPA was an old black and white movie probably from the 1950’s or 1960’s.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wake me up when it gets on the "big screen!" ps:  The only movie I can remember that featured a CPA was an old black and white movie probably from the 1950’s or 1960’s. The CPA was also a Notary Public and in doing that function, he came upon the bad guys, etc. Actually KPMG is sponsoring a number of films which feature accountants (I seem to recall the number 100 mentioned!).  The first and only one so far is Shooting Fish which gives KPMG a mention during the film – cute eh? Other notable accountants in celluloid can be found in… – The Untouchables – Exotica – Shallow Grave (nice scene inside an "old style" accountancy firm) – Amateur (accountant goes mad!) — "If you want to look at my feet, say so," said the young man.  "But don’t be a God-damned sneak about it."                               (from "A Perfect Day for Bananafish")

I recall seeing a film from the U.K. called "The Accountant" on TV a few years back here in Canada.  The accountant, if i remember correctly, was using publicly filed information and trying to find who committed a crime. It struck me odd at the time though as the corporations  seemed to be privately owned.  Do privately owned companies in the UK have to disclose certain financial information publicly?   to email me remove all stars in my email address

Response:

Question:

If anyone can give tips for a visit to CUBA next moth,they will be gratefully welcome. Will try to avoid the expensive places,and looking to meet with local people,and perhaps set up some small businesses there. I am not interested in yank propaganda, just travel info. Thanks.                Warning the World About CGA Accountants from Canada

Response:

If anyone can give tips for a visit to CUBA next moth,they will be gratefully welcome. I am not interested in yank propaganda, just travel info.

You’ll find just the facts, with the yank, but without the propaganda at: http://pages.prodigy.com/allisona/cubaguid.htm Let me know if you have further questions.

Response:

Question:

That’s not really the point, is it now. What’s stupid is stupid and what’s fraudulent is fraudulent no matter where you find it. It turns out that in the world of chiropractice, you can find it in almost any office at almost any time, since for those who adhere to the Fundamental Paradigm of chiropractic’s War on  Subluxation, it can be no other way. JB

What you say, unfortunately, is partly true. The original philosophy behind chiropractic was as an alternative to medicine in treatment of ‘dis-ease’. Very uncomfortable to many of us with backgrounds in science. The profession is presently undergoing a shift away from this type of thinking but it is an incredibly slow process. It is difficult to change a persons belief system especially if what they have been doing is making them money. There are presently studies going on, the Rand study comes to mind, that are trying to determine just what chiroporactic’s scope of practise is. Unfortunately, the reason these studies are being undertaken is not any grand scheme to make the world a better place, it is because of pressure by insurance companies on just what they are willing to pay for. Economics, as usual. If it’s of interest, my practise is acute musculoskeletal and deals with manipulation of joint fixations. John —

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     While you may wonder why it takes x-number of visits for adjustments for     the spine to re-adapt to it’s proper alignment consider this; There are     NO quick-fixes. Consider this. There is no such thing as ‘proper alignment.’ The notion that misalignments of the spine cause health problems is indeed promoted throughout the chiropracticum since without this ‘disease’ entity, they would have nothing to ‘correct.’ So there can be no "quick" *or* "slow" fixes… since nothing is "broken." This is not to say that some can’t be helped with spinal manipulative therapy for some narrow spectrum of joint related problems. But SMT is merely a modality that is not part of the chiropractic paradigm…which is, that Nerve Interference [Subluxation] is caused by Misalignments of the Spine and/or Spinal Structures and can be Fixed by someone who is specially trained to find these Spinal Demons and Exorcise them using any of a vast and ever-growing number of delusional chiropractic Techniques.

[ drivel removed... ] That’s not really the point, is it now. What’s stupid is stupid and what’s fraudulent is fraudulent no matter where you find it. It turns out that in the world of chiropractice, you can find it in almost any office at almost any time, since for those who adhere to the Fundamental Paradigm of chiropractic’s War on  Subluxation, it can be no other way. JB

I think fraudulent exorcism is great!  About a year after I was involved in a head-on collision I began to experience severe headaches.  Six months of pain killers/muscle relaxants did nothing.  I finally gave in and went to a quack master of subluxation elimination.  I experienced immediate drug-free relief.  I continued the quack therapy for the next nine months.  That was five years ago and I have had no relapses since. It was the best exorcism I ever purchased! cheers,   \___//   |     |       Bryan Miller   |_____|       Embedded Software Engineer   || o ||       Control Systems Software   || \||       Powertrain Electronics Department       \        Ford Motor Company        o        TEL : 313.84.54248         //        FAX : 313.32.36743               <<< I don’t speak for Ford, nor they for me…

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In regards to your daughters schedule from her chiropractor and the length of time, you need to think about a few things. While you may wonder why it takes x-number of visits for adjustments for the spine to re-adapt to it’s proper alignment consider this; There are NO quick-fixes. If you go to your regular MD or DO, let’s say for an infection, what’s the course of care? Antibiotics maybe, and then go home and take all of the medication for 14 days. Why? Well the body is going to take time to heal itself…You just are not having the "hands-on" care by the doctor, (no pun intended!) so it seemed like you visited the doctor "one" time. Let’s say you have a fractured long bone. You would not expect to go to the hospital and have it set then have it heal immediately, of course it does not. The BODY is going to take 6-10 weeks to heal the bone and that is with various levels of immoblization. Chiropractic care takes time for CORRECTION. Those just interested in hiding the SYMPTOMS could probably do so with over the counter pain killers. But that’s silly. It’s akin to turning off your smoke detector alarm (symptom) when a fire sets it off as opposed to puting out the fire (cause). Another point you need to think about is that when someone leaves the chiropractor’s (or any doctor’s) office, they generaly go right back to doing the same things at work or play as they have been doing for years. They continue with the same bad habits. All of these factors are in some way involved with the general spinal and body health (or lack of it). These factors cannot be controlled by the D.C., (unless the patient themselve decides to do so), so a corrective schedule is necessary to make any real changes as opposed to just symptom chasing. Unfortuanetly, the 20/20 program on children and chiropractic could not have picked a worse set of examples. But I guess thats what sells advertising because thats what folks want to watch. In ANY profession there are those who simply screw up, either all by themselves or with help from patients or clients. Similar program have beat on Radiologists reading mamograms, plastic surgeons doing unique sex organ "modifications" and….comming soon to a tv near you!….Lawyers ripping off their clients. Don’t believe every negative thing you hear. Good Luck!   Brian

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    While you may wonder why it takes x-number of visits for adjustments for     the spine to re-adapt to it’s proper alignment consider this; There are     NO quick-fixes. Consider this. There is no such thing as ‘proper alignment.’ The notion that misalignments of the spine cause health problems is indeed promoted throughout the chiropracticum since without this ‘disease’ entity, they would have nothing to ‘correct.’ So there can be no "quick" *or* "slow" fixes… since nothing is "broken." This is not to say that some can’t be helped with spinal manipulative therapy for some narrow spectrum of joint related problems. But SMT is merely a modality that is not part of the chiropractic paradigm…which is, that Nerve Interference [Subluxation] is caused by Misalignments of the Spine and/or Spinal Structures and can be Fixed by someone who is specially trained to find these Spinal Demons and Exorcise them using any of a vast and ever-growing number of delusional chiropractic Techniques.     Unfortunately the 20/20 program on children and chiropractic could not     have picked a worse set of examples. This is simply not true. While one could expect from a program like 20/20 the usual muck-raking report, they managed to portray something quite accurate about the state of chiropractic….that normal people are treated daily for problems they don’t have, and that every chiropractic office you enter will give you a different accounting and treatment for what you "don’t have." The chiropractor shown at the end, Duvall, who is president of an organization representing the *smallest* percentage of the chiropractors out there, in no uncertain terms claimed that this kind of traditional chiropractic was a sham and a scam. On the other hand, Carl Ferrari, DC who was shown doing surrogate muscle testing, was invited by the ACA advisory council on chiropractic technique to present his "work" this past fall. The fact is, that 20/20 only touched the tip of the chiropractic-sham iceberg.      In ANY profession there are those who simply screw up, either all by      themselves or with help from patients or clients. That’s not really the point, is it now. What’s stupid is stupid and what’s fraudulent is fraudulent no matter where you find it. It turns out that in the world of chiropractice, you can find it in almost any office at almost any time, since for those who adhere to the Fundamental Paradigm of chiropractic’s War on  Subluxation, it can be no other way. JB

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