Question:

I am from Horseheads

Response:

congradulations on 38 years. We live in california

Response:

"charlie and grace" <bill> wrote in message news:10tc6hmnjfccm93@corp.supernews.com… > congradulations on 38 years. We live in california

Well in California 33 years might be an exceptional record. We are east coasters.

Response:

I am from new york

Response:

"charlie and grace" <bill> wrote in message news:10tg3d0mfu84g23@corp.supernews.com… >I am from new york

two of my sons live in NY area – Brooklyn and Hoboken

Response:

urf wrote: > charlie and grace wrote: >> I am from new york > two of my sons live in NY area – Brooklyn and Hoboken

(crosses index fingers from both hands together) Back off!  I’m from Staten Island! All right, I admit it, my father is from Brooklyn… but he moved to SI before "the bridge" was built. Which makes me a native Staten Islander (well, at least by the "liberal" definition:  "Born on SI and whose family moved to the island before the bridge was built"). OK, so "liberal" and "Staten Islander" don’t go together.                               (Admittedly the VZ bridge makes a 5 borough marathon more possible so the runners don’t get a rest on the Ferry…) — Jack C Lipton | cupasoup at pele dot cx | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/  Leadership is about maximizing gains, Management about minimizing losses.  This explains why managers like to hire accountants and keep them busy. -me  "There _is_ a reason ideology rhymes with idiocy, you know." – me

Response:

"Jack C Lipton" <cupas…@peElMe.cx> wrote in message news:slrnctgdq7.gli.cupasoup@soup2nets.net.dhis.org… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> urf wrote: >> charlie and grace wrote: >>> I am from new york >> two of my sons live in NY area – Brooklyn and Hoboken > (crosses index fingers from both hands together) > Back off!  I’m from Staten Island! > All right, I admit it, my father is from Brooklyn… > but he moved to SI before "the bridge" was built. > Which makes me a native Staten Islander (well, at > least by the "liberal" definition:  "Born on SI and > whose family moved to the island before the bridge > was built"). > OK, so "liberal" and "Staten Islander" don’t go > together. > (Admittedly the VZ bridge makes a 5 borough marathon > more possible so the runners don’t get a rest on the > Ferry…)

I am sad to say that for me SI is a hiway from one bridge to another. Hopefully I won’t get stuck in traffic on that hiway that runs past this enormus landfill. I mean really, what kind of a place could harbor names like Aurthurkill Rd? The potholes on that hiway have cost me more than one tire already. I did see a movie once that was based in SI. I was amazed to see that it was really a place that had neigborhoods and parks. A place that is amazingly close to the Big Apple with some fantastic vistas. I never really liked NYC but since my kids moved there I have fallen head over heels for it. It is really the center of the universe.

Response:

Question:

I have OCD and work in a hospital. Back in 1990, I took off a month of work (to go inpatient in a different hospital). Before I left, I had to tell my boss. I also told my closest co-workers. I figured they would all be talking about me behind my back anyway, so I’d rather them know the truth. I wasn’t about to quit, so I returned once my sick leave was over. My fears about returning were worst than actually do it. My friends were still my friends. I did get a few comments from a few well-meaning (but ignorant) @ssholes,  but that’s life. I had a relapse the following year, but otherwise I’ve been there 20 years now with no major problems. NK <snipped by moderator for posting purposes

Response:

I’ve already had one run in with someone from work who was seemed critical about my 4-8 weeks and told me it was because of some factors at work that were causing it.

Sounds like someone who is jealous that you are basically getting a free vacation (even though that’s not what it is). I agreed that additional stress at work doesn’t help but she was convinced she had it all figured out – with no counseling training of course.

Of course.  And maybe to her, it is all figured out.  But she doesn’t have the full story and probably won’t.  And even if she did, I get the feeling that she won’t buy it and no matter what you say or do she will say that she is right.   So when I return to work anyone have any advice what I can tell people to save face for myself?

You had a family situation that needed your attention and you had to focus on it for a little while.  It’s not a lie but it’s not the complete truth either.  If you haven’t "come out of the closet" about being bipolar, this would NOT be the best time to do so IMHO. Should I seriously consider not returning to work or getting a different job?  My counseling therapist seems to indicate I may not be able to return to work, (or that job) but I’m still very unstable so I shouldn’t make any big decisions.

I would wait until you are stable before making that decision.  If your doctor and therapist feel that you won’t ever get stable, disability is an option.  However, to be honest, I’d focus more on the getting stable part more than anything else. All this has been hellish on my wife so I appreciate her for not going straight for a divorce.  When I swing through my cycles It’s almost like being two different people.

My husband can attest to the same thing.  And while we’ve been together for a long time, sometimes he says it’s like he doesn’t know me and he tries hard to be patient and understanding.  And other times, he just starts laughing because he says I look so silly.  It did help to have him with me for my doctor’s visits so he could ask questions and understand better what was going on. I wish you the best of luck.

Response:

Sorry for the multiple postings. I have no idea why that happened. It wasn’t my OCD . NK – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have OCD and work in a hospital. Back in 1990, I took off a month of work (to go inpatient in a different hospital). Before I left, I had to tell my boss. I also told my closest co-workers. I figured they would all be talking about me behind my back anyway, so I’d rather them know the truth. I wasn’t about to quit, so I returned once my sick leave was over. My fears about returning were worst than actually do it. My friends were still my friends. I did get a few comments from a few well-meaning (but ignorant) @ssholes,  but that’s life. I had a relapse the following year, but otherwise I’ve been there 20 years now with no major problems. NK <snipped by moderator for posting purposes

Response:

Sorry for the multiple postings. I have no idea why that happened. It wasn’t my OCD . NK <snipped by moderator for posting purposes

Response:

Sorry for the multiple postings. I have no idea why that happened. It wasn’t my OCD . NK

It’s okay, it’s not your OCD.  It happens when I moderate.  Sometimes a post starts to go through and then it hangs up so I send it more than once until it does go through until it doesn’t hang up.  Usually the only time it hangs up is when there is a lot of stuff on it, which is why I snipped all the rest of the post since you didn’t quote it. Nancy and I both are moderators as are some others who we do not name. It’s not a problem, if you need any help or anything else, just let us know!

Response:

snip So when I return to work anyone have any advice what I can tell people to save face for myself?  Or should I just be outright honest and say I’m a manic depressive and have been having a great deal of trouble managing my illness so my Doc put me on LOA.  Should I seriously consider not returning to work or getting a different job?  My counseling therapist seems to indicate I may not be able to return to work, (or that job) but I’m still very unstable so I shouldn’t make any big decisions.

Presumably your boss, or the personnel dept., know why you are away.  For those who don’t need to know, I’d play it by ear.  Some workplace cultures are more understanding of disability or ‘difference’ than others – and so are some people. All this has been hellish on my wife so I appreciate her for not going straight for a divorce.  When I swing through my cycles It’s almost like being two different people.

Partners can have a hard time ( — —  Whiskers

Response:

 I don’t know how long you’ve been diagnosed, but it can take a while to get the meds right and get stable.  And btw, Depakote can cause loss of focus. I had to switch off it or I would have lost my job.  I woudn’t consider getting a new job right now. If you have a solid job that will allow you some time off, take the time off and work on getting your life in order. Get enough sleep, but not too much.  Keep busy with simple tasks, if you can.   And read "The Bipolar Disorder Survival Guide".  The author talks about ways you can help control bipolarity using lifestyle managment.  Don’t assume that because the therapist thinks you may not be able to work that you can’t.  Therapists are fallible, and you won’t know what you’re capable of until you try.  Insecurity and emotional pain are symptoms of depression, and should improve when you get the meds right.  And you don’t have to tell anyone at work anything you don’t want to… some people will judge you, but that’s there problem, not yours, unless they are endangering your job by doing so.  If they are, then pro-actively talking to someone in charge whom you trust would be a good idea.  Good luck. Diane M.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’ve posted before and have appreciated all the feedback I’ve received.  When I last posted I was just married and felt really overwhealmed and focused on everything negative.  Since then my outlook on marriage is getting better and I’ve been diagnosed manic depressive with OCD and possibly adult ADD – quite a combination.  I’m on Lexapro, abilify, lamictal, and depakote. I can’t focus at work and have been in emotional pain at work and every little thing they ask me to do just rips up my insides – I go through this at least once daily at work.  I don’t want to do nothing and be idle but it’s the only way I can feel emotionally and mentally ok.  I also have feelings of being intensely judged, that I’m looked badly upon because of my diminished feelings of well being.  I really feel like another gear in the machine – an unnecessary gear that’s unwanted. So I spoke with my psychiatrist about a leave of abscence once, he suggested the structure of work was good for me.  So I hung in there. When I described some of the things I was going through in more detail – that I was in emotional pain, I wrote out what I had been experiencing he immediately wrote me a prescription for LOA for 4-8 weeks. I’ve already had one run in with someone from work who was seemed critical about my 4-8 weeks and told me it was because of some factors at work that were causing it.  I agreed that additional stress at work doesn’t help but she was convinced she had it all figured out – with no counseling training of course. So when I return to work anyone have any advice what I can tell people to save face for myself?  Or should I just be outright honest and say I’m a manic depressive and have been having a great deal of trouble managing my illness so my Doc put me on LOA.  Should I seriously consider not returning to work or getting a different job?  My counseling therapist seems to indicate I may not be able to return to work, (or that job) but I’m still very unstable so I shouldn’t make any big decisions. All this has been hellish on my wife so I appreciate her for not going straight for a divorce.  When I swing through my cycles It’s almost like being two different people. Thanks for reading all this! -Max S.

Response:

Stressed) etched permanently into the ether: So when I return to work anyone have any advice what I can tell people to save face for myself?  Or should I just be outright honest and say I’m a manic depressive and have been having a great deal of trouble managing my illness so my Doc put me on LOA.  Should I seriously consider not returning to work or getting a different job?  My counseling therapist seems to indicate I may not be able to return to work, (or that job) but I’m still very unstable so I shouldn’t make any big decisions.

Hi Max– In your situation, you should tell no one any details, except your immediate supervisor and possibly personnel–they have a need to know.  I like the idea of another poster to just say you had "family problems".  And leave it at that. I’m a bit concerned about the nosey employee–I’d have a chat with my boss about the "counselor" at work.  She needs to leave you the hell alone and not ask you any questions–it is none of her business. As far as returning to work or finding another job–you and your therapist should ask a litany of questions.  Some examples are: Was the stress at work, normal and because of your health you just can’t deal with normal stress anymore? Was the stress caused by something that can be changed?  What needs to be changed?  Does the change require you leave your current job and find another one?   Let me address my last question.  Job searches are more stressful for most people than any other employment situation (most of the time).  So, if you require a change of job to try to avoid similar stress–you are going into even more stress.  And you have NO guarantee that the job you get will even work out for you. More questions: How would you go about doing your job differently to avoid the stress that is triggering episodes? Really look hard at what happened at work–I"d write it all out with as many details as possible.  To get you started, you might start by writing "a day in the life of my work".  Then expand it as you remember more things.  Discuss this with your therapist. What will the stress of a new job search create? Really evaluate whether or not you can do the same kind of work.   Can you identify another type of work that may not cause as much stress?  This is hard, because the only way to really know is to be in the situation. Consider disability  in light of your answers to some of these questions.  Be real.  Can you really work?  Visualize what it would be like. You can’t go out on disability without medical support–so be honest with your therapist–and provide details of what causes you stress. My experience is in the USA, specifically California–I’m not sure where you live, but what I’ve said is pretty much true around the world. HTH, Nancy Just knockin’ around the zoo. (James Taylor)

Response:

I have to agree about not telling people at work except on those on a need to know basis.  I told people at my job and was penalized.  AND I work in mental health. All it did was give the gossips something to talk about. — Ruby In most states the penalty for an adult who rapes a child is twenty years plus-UNLESS that adult happens to be related to the child-in which case the maximum sentence could be PROBATION

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In alt.support.depression.manic.moderated Max Stressed So when I return to work anyone have any advice what I can tell people to save face for myself?  Or should I just be outright honest and say I’m a manic depressive and have been having a great deal of trouble managing my illness so my Doc put me on LOA.  Should I seriously consider not returning to work or getting a different job?  My counseling therapist seems to indicate I may not be able to return to work, (or that job) but I’m still very unstable so I shouldn’t make any big decisions. Tell coworkers that you left for "personal family reasons." They will come up with their own ideas.  Sick grandmother.  Marriage counseling.  Had to plow the back 40.  State it matter-of-factly and drop or change the conversation promptly.  If they press, repeat it and get out of there. I would not disclose the diagnosis to anyone unless your job is at jeopardy if you don’t. If you have to tell someone, make sure they can help you if you do. Don’t tell Jill in accounting if she has no influence to protect you.  Kind of obvious, but often missed in emotional states. My boss knows at my job.  He’s a very kind soul, very sympathetic, very accomodating to sick days.  I’ve worked here for 7 years.  I told him at the 4 year mark, when I felt a dramatic mood swing jeopardized my job.

Response:

So when I return to work anyone have any advice what I can tell people to save face for myself?  Or should I just be outright honest and say I’m a manic depressive and have been having a great deal of trouble managing my illness so my Doc put me on LOA.  Should I seriously consider not returning to work or getting a different job?  My counseling therapist seems to indicate I may not be able to return to work, (or that job) but I’m still very unstable so I shouldn’t make any big decisions.

Tell coworkers that you left for "personal family reasons." They will come up with their own ideas.  Sick grandmother.  Marriage counseling.  Had to plow the back 40.  State it matter-of-factly and drop or change the conversation promptly.  If they press, repeat it and get out of there. I would not disclose the diagnosis to anyone unless your job is at jeopardy if you don’t. If you have to tell someone, make sure they can help you if you do. Don’t tell Jill in accounting if she has no influence to protect you.  Kind of obvious, but often missed in emotional states. My boss knows at my job.  He’s a very kind soul, very sympathetic, very accomodating to sick days.  I’ve worked here for 7 years.  I told him at the 4 year mark, when I felt a dramatic mood swing jeopardized my job.

Response:

Hi, I’ve posted before and have appreciated all the feedback I’ve received.  When I last posted I was just married and felt really overwhealmed and focused on everything negative.  Since then my outlook on marriage is getting better and I’ve been diagnosed manic depressive with OCD and possibly adult ADD – quite a combination.  I’m on Lexapro, abilify, lamictal, and depakote. I can’t focus at work and have been in emotional pain at work and every little thing they ask me to do just rips up my insides – I go through this at least once daily at work.  I don’t want to do nothing and be idle but it’s the only way I can feel emotionally and mentally ok.  I also have feelings of being intensely judged, that I’m looked badly upon because of my diminished feelings of well being.  I really feel like another gear in the machine – an unnecessary gear that’s unwanted. So I spoke with my psychiatrist about a leave of abscence once, he suggested the structure of work was good for me.  So I hung in there. When I described some of the things I was going through in more detail – that I was in emotional pain, I wrote out what I had been experiencing he immediately wrote me a prescription for LOA for 4-8 weeks. I’ve already had one run in with someone from work who was seemed critical about my 4-8 weeks and told me it was because of some factors at work that were causing it.  I agreed that additional stress at work doesn’t help but she was convinced she had it all figured out – with no counseling training of course. So when I return to work anyone have any advice what I can tell people to save face for myself?  Or should I just be outright honest and say I’m a manic depressive and have been having a great deal of trouble managing my illness so my Doc put me on LOA.  Should I seriously consider not returning to work or getting a different job?  My counseling therapist seems to indicate I may not be able to return to work, (or that job) but I’m still very unstable so I shouldn’t make any big decisions. All this has been hellish on my wife so I appreciate her for not going straight for a divorce.  When I swing through my cycles It’s almost like being two different people. Thanks for reading all this! -Max S.

Response:

I have OCD and work in a hospital. Back in 1990, I took off a month of work (to go inpatient in a different hospital). Before I left, I had to tell my boss. I also told my closest co-workers. I figured they would all be talking about me behind my back anyway, so I’d rather them know the truth. I wasn’t about to quit, so I returned once my sick leave was over. My fears about returning were worst than actually do it. My friends were still my friends. I did get a few comments from a few well-meaning (but ignorant) @ssholes,  but that’s life. I had a relapse the following year, but otherwise I’ve been there 20 years now with no major problems. NK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’ve posted before and have appreciated all the feedback I’ve received.  When I last posted I was just married and felt really overwhealmed and focused on everything negative.  Since then my outlook on marriage is getting better and I’ve been diagnosed manic depressive with OCD and possibly adult ADD – quite a combination.  I’m on Lexapro, abilify, lamictal, and depakote. I can’t focus at work and have been in emotional pain at work and every little thing they ask me to do just rips up my insides – I go through this at least once daily at work.  I don’t want to do nothing and be idle but it’s the only way I can feel emotionally and mentally ok.  I also have feelings of being intensely judged, that I’m looked badly upon because of my diminished feelings of well being.  I really feel like another gear in the machine – an unnecessary gear that’s unwanted. So I spoke with my psychiatrist about a leave of abscence once, he suggested the structure of work was good for me.  So I hung in there. When I described some of the things I was going through in more detail – that I was in emotional pain, I wrote out what I had been experiencing he immediately wrote me a prescription for LOA for 4-8 weeks. I’ve already had one run in with someone from work who was seemed critical about my 4-8 weeks and told me it was because of some factors at work that were causing it.  I agreed that additional stress at work doesn’t help but she was convinced she had it all figured out – with no counseling training of course. So when I return to work anyone have any advice what I can tell people to save face for myself?  Or should I just be outright honest and say I’m a manic depressive and have been having a great deal of trouble managing my illness so my Doc put me on LOA.  Should I seriously consider not returning to work or getting a different job?  My counseling therapist seems to indicate I may not be able to return to work, (or that job) but I’m still very unstable so I shouldn’t make any big decisions. All this has been hellish on my wife so I appreciate her for not going straight for a divorce.  When I swing through my cycles It’s almost like being two different people. Thanks for reading all this! -Max S.

Response:

Question:

I won’t find much support here?  Then fine, as far as I can see you are a very high minded preachie lot…  Some people are over weight for reasons beyond rational thought and loose weight in the same way.  If you are un-able to offer support to a fellow human being doing his best in his own way to extend his life for his 2 children then I will stop posting but WILL continue. Bye!! Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I am feeling a bit annoyed today.  There is a programme currently airing in the UK called ‘Fit Farm’.  The heaviest participants ( 420 pound 35yr male and woman 325 pounds) have lost 14 pounds and 7 pound respectively.  Why I this OK when health experts (1 x nutritionist 1 x dietician, 1 ox life coach) Say it is? Why do we say its not ok for you and they say its ok for them. WHY???   Because, and I hope you read this point. THEY ARE BEING MONITORED BY A NUTRITIONIST, DIETICIAN and since its TV, they have a full medical staff available to them. If you go find a doctor to monitor your health and a nutritionist/dietician who will work with you and your doctor and a personal trainer to devise a workout schedule that will work for you, based on your doctors and nutritionist input – then FINE – GO FOR IT!!! But if you want to do it on your own by just eating very few calories and 10 mins of exercise a day…  you won’t find much support here.

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Hi I am feeling a bit annoyed today.  There is a programme currently airing in the UK called ‘Fit Farm’.  The heaviest participants ( 420 pound 35yr male and woman 325 pounds) have lost 14 pounds and 7 pound respectively.  Why I this OK when health experts (1 x nutritionist 1 x dietician, 1 ox life coach) Say it is? I have been criticised for my enthusiastic approach to my weight loss but I have to admit that I have been receiving psychiatric therapy for many years for a black-white, good-bad, evil-divine way of thinking.  You see for me it’s ALL or NOTHING excellent or rubbish!  So when I see people on TV loosing 14 pounds (man 420 pounds) or 7 pounds ( woman 325 pounds) I want to emulate that.  Why shouldn’t I?  For me not to live up to my own expectations is total failure!!  My thinking is that my current weight is 282 pounds.. if I can stick to my 1000 calls per day plan + 30 mins exercise bike 4 times per week 20 mins walking per day and playing the drums at least 20 mins per day (with 1200 cals worth of alcohol spread over Friday and Saturday) then when I get down to the 210 pound mark my loss will slow down. That’s OK, at that point I will be in for the long slog. And for the folks who ask what I will do after I lose the weight.. according to what I have researched the number of calories I will need to eat at 168 pounds an it’s around about 2000.  As far as I’m concerned at this point that is fine.  I also hope to continue my exercising rather than returning to a sedentary life style. Please keep helping me.  I recon that I will take 10 months to get there. Regards Jim. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

You are misunderstanding what she is saying.  Quit being so defensive, she was just trying to help you by posting that!  She is saying that you will have a difficult time finding support for your current method of trying to lose weight.  The method you are trying to use is not a healthy one and you are setting yourself up to fail. I am kinda sorta of the same mind set as you are with how I wanted to lose weight.  I used to set unwaivering, inflexible, goals for perfection and would ultimately fail and give up for a few days or weeks.  I would start over and TELL myself I will only eat this I will not eat that, etc….. This only lead to years of feeling like a big fat failure. Now, I keep a food journal and have set up a healthier way and quantity to eat.  If I mess up for a day or 2, I don’t beat myself up anymore.  I don’t make myself feel like a failure.  I just get back to it as soon as I can and go on. I know that I am not the only person out there that has tried the all or nothing approach.  It will ultimately lead to failure in the long run.  You do need to discover a healthier way of eating that you can adopt forever.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I won’t find much support here?  Then fine, as far as I can see you are a very high minded preachie lot…  Some people are over weight for reasons beyond rational thought and loose weight in the same way.  If you are un-able to offer support to a fellow human being doing his best in his own way to extend his life for his 2 children then I will stop posting but WILL continue. Bye!! Jim Hi I am feeling a bit annoyed today.  There is a programme currently airing in the UK called ‘Fit Farm’.  The heaviest participants ( 420 pound 35yr male and woman 325 pounds) have lost 14 pounds and 7 pound respectively. Why I this OK when health experts (1 x nutritionist 1 x dietician, 1 ox life coach) Say it is? Why do we say its not ok for you and they say its ok for them. WHY???   Because, and I hope you read this point. THEY ARE BEING MONITORED BY A NUTRITIONIST, DIETICIAN and since its TV, they have a full medical staff available to them. If you go find a doctor to monitor your health and a nutritionist/dietician who will work with you and your doctor and a personal trainer to devise a workout schedule that will work for you, based on your doctors and nutritionist input – then FINE – GO FOR IT!!! But if you want to do it on your own by just eating very few calories and 10 mins of exercise a day…  you won’t find much support here. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Now, I keep a food journal and have set up a healthier way and quantity to eat.  If I mess up for a day or 2, I don’t beat myself up anymore.  I don’t make myself feel like a failure.  I just get back to it as soon as I can and go on. I know that I am not the only person out there that has tried the all or nothing approach.  It will ultimately lead to failure in the long run.  You do need to discover a healthier way of eating that you can adopt forever.

Exactly.  I always hate it when I hear someone is going on a diet.  Why not just try to eat your next meal a bit healthier?  Keep doing that, practicing four times a day, over and over again, until it gets easier? Dally

Response:

I won’t find much support here?  Then fine, as far as I can see you are a very high minded preachie lot…  Some people are over weight for reasons beyond rational thought and loose weight in the same way.  If you are un-able to offer support to a fellow human being doing his best in his own way to extend his life for his 2 children then I will stop posting but WILL continue. Bye!! Jim

Whoa, Jim, chill.  Your dichotomous thinking is clouding your perception. Most of us believe that losing weight is beneficial and exercise is great. In spite of your way, losing weight is better than not losing weight in my book.  We do vary in our opinions on the best way to do it.  Do you know how many people come in here and take such an agressive approach to weight loss and fail?  Most of the time, they just disappear but occasionally they will come back and try again with a more sensible approach. The one thing everyone has in common in here is that we are searching for a way of eating/way of life that works for us.  My weight loss progress is far less important to me than my health.  Event thin people have heart attacks and diabetes if they trash their body. I suspect anyone weighing 420 pounds could lose 14 pounds in the first couple of weeks of dieting.  As fat begins to metabolize it changes the way electrolytes are handled and the result is a tremendous water loss.  This slows down after a couple of weeks and many folks get discouraged because they think they are not making progress. Eating too few calories is controversial.  I try to shoot for 1000/day (small person) BUT, I add back any that I have worked off.  I usually go until my treadmill reads 350 calories and use that as an estimate.  It is a little high because it doesn’t adjust for weight and it uses 150 lbs as standard but I don’t add anything in for the weights I do afterwards. Sometimes, I go over if I have to eat out with clients or go out to dinner with friends.  Other times, I am under.  But, when I don’t eat enough, I pay for it.  I get excessively tired, grouchy, irritable and turn into a general bitch.  It never really seems to speed up my weight loss, either.  I might be down a pound the following day but it comes back when I eat normally. Support comes in varying forms.  What you won’t find here is enabling – people encouraging you do something that may not be good for you.  I for one, will not tell you to stop but I will ask that you re-think your strategies.  Others state their objections with greater assertion.  No one wants you to fail.  No one wants you to be unhealthy.  And no one will sit idly by you work so hard at a plan that probably will not be effective in the long run.  Many of us, myself, included have lost a great deal of weight in the past only to put it on again when we stopped paying attention to our food intake.   I have gone from around 155 a year ago to 137.   I have constantly paid attention to my sugar consumption and the glycemic index but there were many months when it wasunimportant for me to actively lose weight.  As summer grows near, I am ramping up my efforts by cutting back on calories and increasing exercise.  My weight loss in pounds is not impressive.  What is impressive is that if it were put on a graph the overall trend would be downwards without any spikes in the upward range greater than two pounds!  I like that.  Several years ago, I went from 160 to 120 in a couple of months.  It did not feel good to face the fact that I had to do it again but I had no choice.  I was feeling miserable and was almost afraid to check my blood sugars for fear it would reveal diabetes and self employed consultants do not ever want that on their medical records when buying health insurance:) j – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I am feeling a bit annoyed today.  There is a programme currently airing in the UK called ‘Fit Farm’.  The heaviest participants ( 420 pound 35yr male and woman 325 pounds) have lost 14 pounds and 7 pound respectively. Why I this OK when health experts (1 x nutritionist 1 x dietician, 1 ox life coach) Say it is?

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Hi I am feeling a bit annoyed today.  There is a programme currently airing in the UK called ‘Fit Farm’.  The heaviest participants ( 420 pound 35yr male and woman 325 pounds) have lost 14 pounds and 7 pound respectively.  Why I this OK when health experts (1 x nutritionist 1 x dietician, 1 ox life coach) Say it is?

Hi Jim, One thing to bear in mind that (so I’m told) the more weight you have to lose, the easier it is.  And you can lose quite quickly at the start of a diet. I lost 7 lb in the first 2 weeks of mine, but I don’t expect to keep this rate of loss up and will be happy with 1-2 lb a week.  I would guess that the people on Fit Farm will slow down their weight loss, too, as the time goes on. I have been criticised for my enthusiastic approach to my weight loss but I have to admit that I have been receiving psychiatric therapy for many years for a black-white, good-bad, evil-divine way of thinking.  You see for me it’s ALL or NOTHING excellent or rubbish!  So when I see people on TV loosing 14 pounds (man 420 pounds) or 7 pounds ( woman 325 pounds) I want to emulate that.  Why shouldn’t I?  For me not to live up to my own expectations is total failure!!

Having had therapy, you must already know without me telling you, that that is a very destructive way of thinking.  I know it is cos I have it too, and am working through it. I know it’s easy to say, but being a bit gentler on yourself will make your life, and long term life style changes, easier. C x — 245/226/135 "never give up on a goal because of the time it will take to acheive it – the time will pass anyway" email/msn: clarrie grundy aatt hhoott mmaaiill ddoott ccomm

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So when I say ‘please keep helping me’ You recon I will find ‘no support here’  Hmm, just like I said, high minded preachy and prejudiced.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I am feeling a bit annoyed today.  There is a programme currently airing in the UK called ‘Fit Farm’.  The heaviest participants ( 420 pound 35yr male and woman 325 pounds) have lost 14 pounds and 7 pound respectively.  Why I this OK when health experts (1 x nutritionist 1 x dietician, 1 ox life coach) Say it is? I have been criticised for my enthusiastic approach to my weight loss but I have to admit that I have been receiving psychiatric therapy for many years for a black-white, good-bad, evil-divine way of thinking.  You see for me it’s ALL or NOTHING excellent or rubbish!  So when I see people on TV loosing 14 pounds (man 420 pounds) or 7 pounds ( woman 325 pounds) I want to emulate that.  Why shouldn’t I?  For me not to live up to my own expectations is total failure!!  My thinking is that my current weight is 282 pounds.. if I can stick to my 1000 calls per day plan + 30 mins exercise bike 4 times per week 20 mins walking per day and playing the drums at least 20 mins per day (with 1200 cals worth of alcohol spread over Friday and Saturday) then when I get down to the 210 pound mark my loss will slow down. That’s OK, at that point I will be in for the long slog. And for the folks who ask what I will do after I lose the weight.. according to what I have researched the number of calories I will need to eat at 168 pounds an it’s around about 2000.  As far as I’m concerned at this point that is fine.  I also hope to continue my exercising rather than returning to a sedentary life style. Please keep helping me.  I recon that I will take 10 months to get there. Regards Jim. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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I’m proper p**sed off. I’ve cut my diet right down from eating lots of fatty food especially chocolate, to eating lots of ‘good’ stuff like apples. My fat intake now is well under recommended levels. My weight has dropped from 380 to 340 in 8 months but for 4 months now its been stuck at 340. What can I do to get it down ? This is really getting me down. 1. My calories are around 2000 – 2500 a day. 2. My fat is around 30g a day. 3. I walk for an hour a night 3 times a week. 4. I do weight lifting stuff for 30 minutes 3 times a week.

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I’m proper p**sed off. I’ve cut my diet right down from eating lots of fatty food especially chocolate, to eating lots of ‘good’ stuff like apples. My fat intake now is well under recommended levels. My weight has dropped from 380 to 340 in 8 months but for 4 months now its been stuck at 340. What can I do to get it down ? This is really getting me down. 1. My calories are around 2000 – 2500 a day. 2. My fat is around 30g a day. 3. I walk for an hour a night 3 times a week. 4. I do weight lifting stuff for 30 minutes 3 times a week.

I’d try zig zagging my calories a bit.  Try eating low cal all week and having a refeed once a week.  And Wendy can tell you all the benefits of consuming healthy fats – it can actually jump start weight loss if you eat the "right" fats.  Do more structured exercise like sprints or higher intensity stuff, and get more defined with your weight lifting program. determined

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Maybe cut your calories……and try mixing up your cardio? Just a suggestion

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I’m proper p**sed off. I’ve cut my diet right down from eating lots of fatty food especially chocolate, to eating lots of ‘good’ stuff like apples. My fat intake now is well under recommended levels. My weight has dropped from 380 to 340 in 8 months but for 4 months now its been stuck at 340. What can I do to get it down ? This is really getting me down. 1. My calories are around 2000 – 2500 a day.

Try using fitday.com for a few days to track your food intake.  This will give you an accurate accounting of your calories.  It will also tell you the carb/protein/ratio.  You can then tweak your diet if you find it’s not what you think it is. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2. My fat is around 30g a day. 3. I walk for an hour a night 3 times a week. 4. I do weight lifting stuff for 30 minutes 3 times a week.

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First of all, great job in losing 40 pounds! Way to go!  It’s normal to plateau.  A few things might get you off your plateau – 1) adding a 15 minute walk on the days you don’t walk for an hour 2) if necessary, shift your carbs to whole grains – more filling – more nutritious – lower GI index. 3) If you are motivated enough, lower the variety in your diet.  Studies show lower variety = less eating. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m proper p**sed off. I’ve cut my diet right down from eating lots of fatty food especially chocolate, to eating lots of ‘good’ stuff like apples. My fat intake now  is well under recommended levels. My weight has dropped from 380 to 340 in 8 months but for 4 months now its been stuck at 340. What can I do to get  it down ? This is really getting me down. 1. My calories are around 2000 – 2500 a day. Try using fitday.com for a few days to track your food intake.  This will give you an accurate accounting of your calories.  It will also tell you the carb/protein/ratio.  You can then tweak your diet if you find it’s not what you think it is. 2. My fat is around 30g a day. 3. I walk for an hour a night 3 times a week. 4. I do weight lifting stuff for 30 minutes 3 times a week.

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If you get a chance, check out the Weight Loss Support Center at http://www.theimarket.com Don’t worry about having to buy anything, but there is a lot of good information that may help. Once you’ve done that, If you have any questions, click on the Contact Us link and send me an email

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m proper p**sed off. I’ve cut my diet right down from eating lots of fatty food especially chocolate, to eating lots of ‘good’ stuff like apples. My fat intake now is well under recommended levels. My weight has dropped from 380 to 340 in 8 months but for 4 months now its been stuck at 340. What can I do to get it down ? This is really getting me down. 1. My calories are around 2000 – 2500 a day. 2. My fat is around 30g a day. 3. I walk for an hour a night 3 times a week. 4. I do weight lifting stuff for 30 minutes 3 times a week.

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4. I do weight lifting stuff for 30 minutes 3 times a week.

Everyone has given you good suggestions, but I suggest maybe to slow down or postpone the weight lifting if you are worried about the numbers on the scale. Remember if you are building muscle…which is always great…..you are adding weight, because muscle weighs more then fat. After you have trimmed down somemore take weight lifting back up. For now continue with cartio and reducing calories and maybe even your fat grams down to 20. Kelly

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Question:

I’ll bet you were an altar boy when you were young. Did jesus save you when he came in your ass or your mouth? hehehe Oh, and those "traits" you speak of? They were written my men who wanted power over the sheep that were all too willing to follow them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most people already do the will of "god." They live in fear and ignorance, and occassionally in a so-called "enlightened" state…all which is the prime objective of "god" so as to keep them in nearly unbreakable bonds of slavery and darkness. That is the will of "god." "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders,  drunkenness, revelries, and the like;" (Gal 5:19-21*). These are the traits His Holy Spirit inspires us with: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" (Gal 5:22,23*). Wouldn’t you prefer the fruit of the Spirit [His will]? *NKJV

Gargoyle – _~~~~~ Okay, Life’s a Bitch. So fucking what? Get over it. And, get on with it. Or, get the fuck out!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most people already do the will of "god." They live in fear and ignorance, and occassionally in a so-called "enlightened" state…all which is the prime objective of "god" so as to keep them in nearly unbreakable bonds of slavery and darkness. That is the will of "god." "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders,  drunkenness, revelries, and the like;" (Gal 5:19-21*). These are the traits His Holy Spirit inspires us with: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" (Gal 5:22,23*). Wouldn’t you prefer the fruit of the Spirit [His will]? *NKJV You want me to give up fornication for longsuffering? Are you an idiot? T9W

He is the equivelent of a babbling creek. Only, a creek actually has something worth babbling about. Gargoyle – _~~~~~ Okay, Life’s a Bitch. So fucking what? Get over it. And, get on with it. Or, get the fuck out!

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Because it was all made up by the other apostles for the sole purpose of enhancing the importance their own roles in the affair. Importance which otherwise would have counted for naught. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not even the writers of the gospels were eyewitnesses.  Nothing in the Bible regarding the life and teachings of Jesus is an eyewitness accounting, as it was all written at least a generation or two after the fact, and Paul’s writings came first. Paul’s epistles are by far the oldest and are possibly the derived from the originals, yet he never mentions the virgin birth, the Sermon on the Mount, the Lord’s Prayer, the Parable of the Prodigal Sopn, the Good Samaritan or any of the miracles that have become intrinsic parts of Christian beliefs. Vas.

Gargoyle – _~~~~~ Okay, Life’s a Bitch. So fucking what? Get over it. And, get on with it. Or, get the fuck out!

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Gargoyle – _~~~~~ Your opinion matters! It just doesn’t matter to me.

i said that to an irc accquaintance once except i said, "i respect your right to have an opinion, but i don’t respect your opinion." i’m not sure which wording i like best.. i think it would have to be dependant on the situation.. peace, bogsnarth (currently concieving a song called "Jesus Loves Me.. too hard")

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most people already do the will of "god." They live in fear and ignorance, and occassionally in a so-called "enlightened" state…all which is the prime objective of "god" so as to keep them in nearly unbreakable bonds of slavery and darkness. That is the will of "god." "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders,  drunkenness, revelries, and the like;" (Gal 5:19-21*). These are the traits His Holy Spirit inspires us with: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" (Gal 5:22,23*). Wouldn’t you prefer the fruit of the Spirit [His will]? *NKJV Well, no, acutally, I quite enjoy fornication, lewdness, sorcery, drunkenness and revelries, to be

honest.  Moreover, my house is full of idols that all get their turn at offerings at appropriate times. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And now, a little something for you xtians who post to non-xtian newsgroups hoping to "save" us: Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. (Proverbs 16:18) And how about Don’t you look at me so smug and say I’m going bad. Who are you to judge me, and the life I live? I know that I’m not perfect And that I don’t claim to be So, before you point your finger Make sure your hands are clean. Bob Marley (Romans 14:4) You know, I suspect that most of the individuals who post such stuff are very young, have had a

recent conversion, and are enthusiastic about "spreading the word" to the rest of the world.  But think about this for a while; we’ve already heard it, and are not interested in hearing it any more. Wait ’til you’re a little older and have lived life before you start trying to tell others how they should live. Old Wolf

i agree except that i don’t think they have to be young.. that whole "being reborn" thing tends to make some people function on the verbal level of a child… like when my friends and i used to have philosophical discussions on the play ground.. "god is up and the devil is down.. hell is down there.. *points* you go there if you’re bad.. heaven is up there *points* that’s where gramma and sparky are…" but to be fair, i think the following song has a good point about "those types" as well: "Happy Guy" by NOFX (a band who has a self-descriptive album title, "white trash, two heebs, and a bean." the members of the band are 1 long haired white guy, 2 jewish guys from the suburbs, and a mexican. put that in your PC(p) pipe and smoke it..) he’s just a man getting through life the best he can he’s not a scientist, he programs a computer before that he sold cars to pay a student loan now he recieves pity from his family — his friends say how could he turn his back on reason worshipping a god finding truth through fear and mind control he’s just a man trying to explain how he found the word of god could make life seem less insane so he shares what he’s read, what he understands, it makes sense to him, it makes perfect sense to him, in fact he’s never seen so clearly turned his back on free will — has he lost his mind? he’d rather kneel down than take charge of his life and he knows what people think, but it doesn’t sway him he can read the writing on the wall cause he knows how people treat, how they treat eachother a sacrifice to benefit the all don’t try to judge him, his theologian ideals his hopes may be false but his happiness is real don’t try to judge him, he’s just a man. — foot note: NOFX is a band that’s very easy to interpret as sarcastic.. what happens when you try to interpret them as earnest and forthright? peace, bogsnarth ( m/ punk rawk #50926923)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most people already do the will of "god." They live in fear and ignorance, and occassionally in a so-called "enlightened" state…all which is the prime objective of "god" so as to keep them in nearly unbreakable bonds of slavery and darkness. That is the will of "god." "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders,  drunkenness, revelries, and the like;" (Gal 5:19-21*). These are the traits His Holy Spirit inspires us with: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" (Gal 5:22,23*). Wouldn’t you prefer the fruit of the Spirit [His will]? *NKJV

You want me to give up fornication for longsuffering? Are you an idiot? T9W

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Not even the writers of the gospels were eyewitnesses.  Nothing in the Bible regarding the life and teachings of Jesus is an eyewitness accounting, as it was all written at least a generation or two after the fact, and Paul’s writings came first.

Paul’s epistles are by far the oldest and are possibly the derived from the originals, yet he never mentions the virgin birth, the Sermon on the Mount, the Lord’s Prayer, the Parable of the Prodigal Sopn, the Good Samaritan or any of the miracles that have become intrinsic parts of Christian beliefs. Vas.

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Most people already do the will of "god." They live in fear and ignorance, and occassionally in a so-called "enlightened" state…all which is the prime objective of "god" so as to keep them in nearly unbreakable bonds of slavery and darkness. That is the will of "god."

"Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders,  drunkenness, revelries, and the like;" (Gal 5:19-21*). These are the traits His Holy Spirit inspires us with: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" (Gal 5:22,23*). Wouldn’t you prefer the fruit of the Spirit [His will]? *NKJV

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –                             Re: Jesus Loves You!   Organization: http://groups.google.com/   Newsgroups:          [2] alt.pagan,          [3] alt.religion.wicca,          [4] alt.discordia   Followup to: [5] newsgroup(s)   References: Most people already do the will of "god." They live in fear and ignorance, and occassionally in a so-called "enlightened" state…all which is the prime objective of "god" so as to keep them in nearly unbreakable bonds of slavery and darkness. That is the will of "god."

***ahhh what the Bible and your interp of it tells you ..you mean? "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders,  drunkenness, revelries, and the like;" (Gal 5:19-21*). These are the traits His Holy Spirit inspires us with: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" (Gal 5:22,23*). Wouldn’t you prefer the fruit of the Spirit [His will]?

***longsuffering seems ridiculous and hey…throw in pleasure and I’m in. *NKJV

IN my opinion Brenda

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most people already do the will of "god." They live in fear and ignorance, and occassionally in a so-called "enlightened" state…all which is the prime objective of "god" so as to keep them in nearly unbreakable bonds of slavery and darkness. That is the will of "god." "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders,  drunkenness, revelries, and the like;" (Gal 5:19-21*). These are the traits His Holy Spirit inspires us with: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" (Gal 5:22,23*). Wouldn’t you prefer the fruit of the Spirit [His will]? *NKJV

Well, no, acutally, I quite enjoy fornication, lewdness, sorcery, drunkenness and revelries, to be honest.  Moreover, my house is full of idols that all get their turn at offerings at appropriate times. And now, a little something for you xtians who post to non-xtian newsgroups hoping to "save" us: Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. (Proverbs 16:18) And how about Don’t you look at me so smug and say I’m going bad. Who are you to judge me, and the life I live? I know that I’m not perfect And that I don’t claim to be So, before you point your finger Make sure your hands are clean. Bob Marley (Romans 14:4) You know, I suspect that most of the individuals who post such stuff are very young, have had a recent conversion, and are enthusiastic about "spreading the word" to the rest of the world.  But think about this for a while; we’ve already heard it, and are not interested in hearing it any more.  Wait ’til you’re a little older and have lived life before you start trying to tell others how they should live. Old Wolf

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"Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders,  drunkenness, revelries, and the like;" (Gal 5:19-21*).

Good one, ’cause I can name countless Christians of my acquaintance who still indulge in just about all of these. "…character traits that God saves us from" indeed. These are the traits His Holy Spirit inspires us with: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" (Gal 5:22,23*).

And I could list many pagans and non-Christians of many religions of my acquaintaince who embody all of these. Wouldn’t you prefer the fruit of the Spirit [His will]?

"His will", huh?  What about humans having free will?  Do we or don’t we choose our own paths through this world?  Is everything that happens all part of "God’s great plan for mankind", in which case I know quite a few people who would like to have a nice long discussion with him about the events of the morning of September 11, 2001, or do humans make their own decisions and mistakes without any supernatural interference?  I’ve been waiting for a Christian to give me a straight answer to that one; the few I’ve had this discussion with recently never answered it but danced around it quite nicely. Blessings, Songweaver

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So, when you go to bed at night, do you dream of jesus fucking you in the ass, telling you since you let him cum in your ass you’re now saved? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The disciples were not instructed to ask permission unless they were caught. "Borrowing" something without asking permission first is theft. I know your not gonna like my response…but here goes: "For every beast of the forest is Mine [God's], And the cattle on a thousand hills" (Ps 50:10). God created everything, so the donkey belongs to Him. They didn’t record it. Matthew did. That’s what the "Matt" means in the reference. Matthew recorded the soldiers’ lie about Christ’s disciples stealing His body. According to you, Josephus was not alive. What were his references other than the bible? Those who witnessed the resurrection and believe in Christ incorperated the story into books that became known as the NT.  The soldiers who witnessed the resurrection created helped spread the lie so that history also claims He never rose from the dead.  Josephus, though neither an eyewitness nor a Christian, believed from his open-minded style of recording history that Jesus had indeed been raised from the dead.

Gargoyle – _~~~~~ Your opinion matters! It just doesn’t matter to me.

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Thanks for sharing that with me.  I never heard that theory before. I’ll check it out.

Response:

Most people already do the will of "god." They live in fear and ignorance, and occassionally in a so-called "enlightened" state…all which is the prime objective of "god" so as to keep them in nearly unbreakable bonds of slavery and darkness. That is the will of "god." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He also sent his disciples to steal for him. The owner of the donkey would have lent it if he were there when His disciples borrowed it. I know from personal experience to turn of the electric before replacing an outlet. What is your point. My point is that it is possible to overcome the lusts of the flesh that have a tendency to pull our desires away from doing the will of God.  People can learn to enjoy a more healthful style of living, as Christ had planned for people. Jesus doesn’t want anything, he’s fucking dead, and all your "he’s  coming back" won’t change that. Would His disciples die for the Gospel of Jesus if they believed He was still in the tomb? Believing he is not in the tomb is irrelevant. History records his death, but nobody but his friends noticed his "resurrection". The other people to record Jesus’ ressurection were the soldiers who guarded the tomb.  They might have been killed for not keeping watch over the tomb.  History records their way out of death: "Now while they were going, behold, some of the guard came into the city and reported to the chief priests all the things that had happened. 12 When they had assembled with the elders and consulted together, they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers, 13 saying, "Tell them, ‘His disciples came at night and stole Him away while we slept.’ 14 And if this comes to the governor’s ears, we will appease him and make you secure." 15 So they took the money and did as they were instructed; and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day." Matt 28:11-15  Josephus, a Jewish historian was hated by his fellow Jews for providing an accurate account of Christ’s resurrection. Prove it accurate, please. "Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again at the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him are not extinct at this day" (Antiquities of the Jews book 18 chapter 3, William Whiston translation, The Complete Works of Josephus, Kregal Publications, Grand Rapids Michigan, 1981, p. 379). http://www.creatingfutures.net/resurrection.html God’s gift is your choice to accept.  Think carefully when choosing what you wish to do with your life. Then why do you want to shove it down our throats? Make you a deal, if I want it, I’ll come to alt.christian.sheeple, okay? I’m so happy about what Jesus has done for us that I can’t contain this blessed truth to myself.

Gargoyle – _~~~~~ Your opinion matters! It just doesn’t matter to me.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again at the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him are not extinct at this day" (Antiquities of the Jews book 18 chapter 3, William Whiston translation, The Complete Works of Josephus, Kregal Publications, Grand Rapids Michigan, 1981, p. 379). According to you, Josephus was not alive. What were his references other than the bible?

Not even the writers of the gospels were eyewitnesses.  Nothing in the Bible regarding the life and teachings of Jesus is an eyewitness accounting, as it was all written at least a generation or two after the fact, and Paul’s writings came first. The only evidence anyone has that a person called Jesus ever lived is the Bible, and that’s not even a complete volume of all the writings of the original people who called themselves "Christian".  The Gnostic writings were completely left out when the "official" Bible was put together, and they approach it in a very different manner, to the point that other "Christians" called them heretics and killed them. Nice… Blessings, Songweaver

Response:

The disciples were not instructed to ask permission unless they were caught. "Borrowing" something without asking permission first is theft.

I know your not gonna like my response…but here goes: "For every beast of the forest is Mine [God's], And the cattle on a thousand hills" (Ps 50:10). God created everything, so the donkey belongs to Him. They didn’t record it. Matthew did. That’s what the "Matt" means in the reference.

Matthew recorded the soldiers’ lie about Christ’s disciples stealing His body. According to you, Josephus was not alive. What were his references other than the bible?

Those who witnessed the resurrection and believe in Christ incorperated the story into books that became known as the NT.  The soldiers who witnessed the resurrection created helped spread the lie so that history also claims He never rose from the dead.  Josephus, though neither an eyewitness nor a Christian, believed from his open-minded style of recording history that Jesus had indeed been raised from the dead.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The disciples were not instructed to ask permission unless they were caught. "Borrowing" something without asking permission first is theft. I know your not gonna like my response…but here goes: "For every beast of the forest is Mine [God's], And the cattle on a thousand hills" (Ps 50:10). God created everything, so the donkey belongs to Him. They didn’t record it. Matthew did. That’s what the "Matt" means in the reference. Matthew recorded the soldiers’ lie about Christ’s disciples stealing His body. According to you, Josephus was not alive. What were his references other than the bible? Those who witnessed the resurrection and believe in Christ incorperated the story into books that became known as the NT.  The soldiers who witnessed the resurrection created helped spread the lie so that history also claims He never rose from the dead.  Josephus, though neither an eyewitness nor a Christian, believed from his open-minded style of recording history that Jesus had indeed been raised from the dead.

*I hate to do this to you because i admire you for continuing to "witness" your faith in a pagan NG. But, it is widely accepted amongst NT Scholars that the references to Jesus in Jospehus were added at a much later date by Christian scribes.

Response:

He also sent his disciples to steal for him.

The owner of the donkey would have lent it if he were there when His disciples borrowed it. I know from personal experience to turn of the electric before replacing an outlet. What is your point.

My point is that it is possible to overcome the lusts of the flesh that have a tendency to pull our desires away from doing the will of God.  People can learn to enjoy a more healthful style of living, as Christ had planned for people. Jesus doesn’t want anything, he’s fucking dead, and all your "he’s  coming back" won’t change that. Would His disciples die for the Gospel of Jesus if they believed He was still in the tomb? Believing he is not in the tomb is irrelevant. History records his death, but nobody but his friends noticed his "resurrection".

The other people to record Jesus’ ressurection were the soldiers who guarded the tomb.  They might have been killed for not keeping watch over the tomb.  History records their way out of death: "Now while they were going, behold, some of the guard came into the city and reported to the chief priests all the things that had happened. 12 When they had assembled with the elders and consulted together, they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers, 13 saying, "Tell them, ‘His disciples came at night and stole Him away while we slept.’ 14 And if this comes to the governor’s ears, we will appease him and make you secure." 15 So they took the money and did as they were instructed; and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day." Matt 28:11-15  Josephus, a Jewish historian was hated by his fellow Jews for providing an accurate account of Christ’s resurrection. Prove it accurate, please.

"Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again at the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him are not extinct at this day" (Antiquities of the Jews book 18 chapter 3, William Whiston translation, The Complete Works of Josephus, Kregal Publications, Grand Rapids Michigan, 1981, p. 379). http://www.creatingfutures.net/resurrection.html God’s gift is your choice to accept.  Think carefully when choosing what you wish to do with your life. Then why do you want to shove it down our throats? Make you a deal, if I want it, I’ll come to alt.christian.sheeple, okay?

I’m so happy about what Jesus has done for us that I can’t contain this blessed truth to myself.

Response:

He also sent his disciples to steal for him. The owner of the donkey would have lent it if he were there when His disciples borrowed it.

The disciples were not instructed to ask permission unless they were caught. "Borrowing" something without asking permission first is theft. I know from personal experience to turn of the electric before replacing an outlet. What is your point. My point is that it is possible to overcome the lusts of the flesh that have a tendency to pull our desires away from doing the will of God.  People can learn to enjoy a more healthful style of living, as Christ had planned for people.

Pagans generally have a very healthful style of living. Jesus doesn’t want anything, he’s fucking dead, and all your "he’s  coming back" won’t change that. Would His disciples die for the Gospel of Jesus if they believed He was still in the tomb? Believing he is not in the tomb is irrelevant. History records his death, but nobody but his friends noticed his "resurrection". The other people to record Jesus’ ressurection were the soldiers who guarded the tomb.  They might have been killed for not keeping watch over the tomb.  History records their way out of death:

They didn’t record it. Matthew did. "Now while they were going, behold, some of the guard came into the city and reported to the chief priests all the things that had happened. 12 When they had assembled with the elders and consulted together, they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers, 13 saying, "Tell them, ‘His disciples came at night and stole Him away while we slept.’ 14 And if this comes to the governor’s ears, we will appease him and make you secure." 15 So they took the money and did as they were instructed; and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day." Matt 28:11-15

That’s what the "Matt" means in the reference. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Josephus, a Jewish historian was hated by his fellow Jews for providing an accurate account of Christ’s resurrection. Prove it accurate, please. "Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again at the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him are not extinct at this day" (Antiquities of the Jews book 18 chapter 3, William Whiston translation, The Complete Works of Josephus, Kregal Publications, Grand Rapids Michigan, 1981, p. 379).

According to you, Josephus was not alive. What were his references other than the bible? http://www.creatingfutures.net/resurrection.html God’s gift is your choice to accept.  Think carefully when choosing what you wish to do with your life. Then why do you want to shove it down our throats? Make you a deal, if I want it, I’ll come to alt.christian.sheeple, okay? I’m so happy about what Jesus has done for us that I can’t contain this blessed truth to myself.

Please control yourself. Don’t call us….etc. T9W

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes you! If only you knew how much Jesus Loved you…….he was tortured and crucified to save your miserabale souls. Actually, he was just into that kind of thing. The only reason he is remembered for it, is that he made up a pretty good excuse. KING KONG DIED FOR YOUR SINS. but, I’m all for sin, so what the fuck. He understands why you are rebelling against Him though. He knows you had a rough childhood playing Dungeons and Dragons and

actually, I wassa playing… cowboy and indians…. up ’till I was 25….always was the indian….liked to tie young pale- face female up to da stake….screw the boy scouts, I knew MO knots than most eagle scouts did by the time I was 14…. [**sighs....  in the rememberance of learning the complexities of the french bowline and that oh-so lovely cuff knot.....** ] now? NOW?  ohhhh…. I’m just a run of the mill Dominant with a prolivity for electrical play and posessing the tendency to implement pleasure/pain techniques on the spread-eagled bound (and often gagged ) female adventurist… gurdjieff 0f gormorrah

Response:

Actually, he was just into that kind of thing. The only reason he is remembered for it, is that he made up a pretty good excuse. Jesus wants His children to have a great life. "The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly" (John 10:10).

…..and when thee wives have their periods, they must sleep in the barn. (direct quote from "God" there) KING KONG DIED FOR YOUR SINS. but, I’m all for sin, so what the fuck. The Holy Spirit has the power to change your life, and you desires.  I know from personal experience.

Sure it does- he’s very jealous and petty I hear tell. Jesus doesn’t want anything, he’s fucking dead, and all your "he’s coming back" won’t change that. Would His disciples die for the Gospel of Jesus if they believed He was still in the tomb?  Josephus, a Jewish historian was hated by his fellow Jews for providing an accurate account of Christ’s resurrection.

Did ya know that according to the "Bible" you will burn in hell if you play football? I wonder if God wears a tin foil hat? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you people have any living people that support your views, or do you just hoist your religion on those dead, and therefore unable to tell you how stupid you are. Placing a curse on your so-called God now? I will say a ‘prayer’ for you as well. May the next sheep not be as contagious as the last, and may the syphilis that has crossed your bloodbrain barier not make you any more of a babbling idiot than it already has. KING KONG DIED FOR YOUR SINS! but, I’m not sure if he was for or against them… God’s gift is your choice to accept.  Think carefully when choosing what you wish to do with your life.

Yes, cause he’s quite jealous ya know. If he catches you looking at another guy, look out!! ^..^<  kat

"Some people say that cats are sneaky, evil, and cruel. True, and they have many other fine qualities as well." – Missy Dizick

Response:

Actually, he was just into that kind of thing. The only reason he is remembered for it, is that he made up a pretty good excuse. Jesus wants His children to have a great life. "The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly" (John 10:10). He also sent his disciples to steal for him.

and they were all on drugs… eating the fallen chaff of the wheat, indeed! we all know that fermented rye grain produces ergot which can be manufactured into LSD. of course LSD wasn’t actually discovered/invented until much later, but ergot has some very potent hallucinogenic properties on its own! JESUS NEVER WALKED ON WATER, HE JUST PLAYED A JOKE ON ALL HIS TRIPPING FRIENDS! (sorry i just had to take part in the "Typing Things in Caps" game) KING KONG DIED FOR YOUR SINS. but, I’m all for sin, so what the fuck. The Holy Spirit has the power to change your life, and you desires.  I know from personal experience. I know from personal experience to turn of the electric before replacing an outlet. What is your point.

i know from personal experience not to stick paper clips into an electrical outlet. i certainly felt *Something* move through me that day, but i don’t know if i would call it Holy.. i have felt the power of the Holy Voltage! AMEN! Jesus doesn’t want anything, he’s fucking dead, and all your "he’s coming back" won’t change that. Would His disciples die for the Gospel of Jesus if they believed He was still in the tomb? Believing he is not in the tomb is irrelevant. History records his death, but nobody but his friends noticed his "resurrection".

in this case, i think Jesus pre-empted Machiavelli. what better way to get more followers AND get your enemies off your back at the same time? i don’t know about you, but i’d do just about anything to get some time alone with Mary Magdelene without any "interruptions" from my friends.. *wiggles an eyebrow suggestively*  Josephus, a Jewish historian was hated by his fellow Jews for providing an accurate account of Christ’s resurrection. Prove it accurate, please.

since we have not (to my knowledge) invented or discovered time travel yet, i see no way of testing this statement, and therefore any speculations on the subject remain merely speculations and should probably not be given the weight of Absolute Metaphysical Certitude. that being said i think he was taken back to his People on the planet Nerktwaft (yes, Nerktwaft.. got a problem with the name? take it up with the Nerktwaftian people, bub.) which appeared to the people who were preset as him "ascending to the throne of heaven." people sound funny when they don’t have accurate language to describe their experiences, hence the whole "Ressurrection and Ascension" story. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you people have any living people that support your views, or do you just hoist your religion on those dead, and therefore unable to tell you how stupid you are. Placing a curse on your so-called God now? I will say a ‘prayer’ for you as well. May the next sheep not be as contagious as the last, and may the syphilis that has crossed your bloodbrain barier not make you any more of a babbling idiot than it already has. KING KONG DIED FOR YOUR SINS! but, I’m not sure if he was for or against them… God’s gift is your choice to accept.  Think carefully when choosing what you wish to do with your life.

is there a Returns counter? God’s gift doesn’t fit very well, and i’m hoping i can trade it in towards the purchase of a PS2… man those things are awesome. peace, bogsnarth — B

Question:

Thanks for the ideas.  I don’t have experience in the three areas you mention, but I did spend 4 1/2 years in the Army National Guard from 1987-1991, and graduated from my state’s OCS program.  I have some experience in forensic accounting, also.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a quick question to any of you in this NG.  Do you think that because of all the reorganization talks going on about the FBI (and CIA, for that matter), and the possibility of jobs being created, it will be easier to get a job as an accountant with either of these organizations.  I tried back in 1992 when I graduated USC, but was not hired.  I now have about four solid years of accounting experience, one in public and three in industry.  I have passed the CPA exam, also.  Any ideas? Are you talking about going in the FBI as a Special Agent or as an accountant in a support/administrative role?  For the CIA, all support positions require a move to the DC area, and I believe the same holds true for the FBI. You can go to either of their websites and obtain this type of information. According to the FBI’s website, they are still hiring CPAs and attorneys for agent positions, but this has taken a back seat role to the hiring of those with linguistic, military intelligence, and counter terrorism experience. Since I fit two of those categories, I am currently trying to go in myself. — Todd Stephens

Response:

I have a quick question to any of you in this NG.  Do you think that because of all the reorganization talks going on about the FBI (and CIA, for that matter), and the possibility of jobs being created, it will be easier to get a job as an accountant with either of these organizations.  I tried back in 1992 when I graduated USC, but was not hired.  I now have about four solid years of accounting experience, one in public and three in industry.  I have passed the CPA exam, also.  Any ideas?

Are you talking about going in the FBI as a Special Agent or as an accountant in a support/administrative role?  For the CIA, all support positions require a move to the DC area, and I believe the same holds true for the FBI. You can go to either of their websites and obtain this type of information. According to the FBI’s website, they are still hiring CPAs and attorneys for agent positions, but this has taken a back seat role to the hiring of those with linguistic, military intelligence, and counter terrorism experience. Since I fit two of those categories, I am currently trying to go in myself. — Todd Stephens

Response:

I have a quick question to any of you in this NG.  Do you think that because of all the reorganization talks going on about the FBI (and CIA, for that matter), and the possibility of jobs being created, it will be easier to get a job as an accountant with either of these organizations.  I tried back in 1992 when I graduated USC, but was not hired.  I now have about four solid years of accounting experience, one in public and three in industry.  I have passed the CPA exam, also.  Any ideas?

Response:

I had a nephew who wanted to enter the FBI, at that time they wanted agents who were majoring in fields like Accounting, A long time ago in a galaxy far far way  "Katy and Tracy I have a quick question to any of you in this NG.  Do you think that because of all the reorganization talks going on about the FBI (and CIA, for that matter), and the possibility of jobs being created, it will be easier to get a job as an accountant with either of these organizations.  I tried back in 1992 when I graduated USC, but was not hired.  I now have about four solid years of accounting experience, one in public and three in industry.  I have passed the CPA exam, also.  Any ideas?

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Question:

I run a small company and use Simply Accounting. When it asks me to enter a date at Startup of Simply, I made the error of typing in 06/06/02. I need to get back to present day. How do I correct this problem. Thanks Bob Wilson

Response:

Bob: We use menu item "Maintenance" "Change System Date". John

| | | I run a small company and use Simply Accounting. When it asks me to enter a | date at Startup of Simply, I made the error of typing in 06/06/02. I need to | get back to present day. How do I correct this problem. | | Thanks Bob Wilson | |

Response:

PS.. remember to change the date back! unless your computer resets the date on the next boot-up. Sidney

| Bob: | | We use menu item "Maintenance" "Change System Date". | | John | | | | | | | I run a small company and use Simply Accounting. When it asks me to enter | a | | date at Startup of Simply, I made the error of typing in 06/06/02. I need | to | | get back to present day. How do I correct this problem. | | | | Thanks Bob Wilson | | | | | |

Response:

Question:

That is the headline in the Friday AJC, just glanced at the article—-anyone in St. Louis know the scoop? Maryanne

Response:

That is the headline in the Friday AJC, just glanced at the article—-anyone in St. Louis know the scoop?

Reuters reports it was the WSJ that broke that story. I really don’t see why Valuejet would want to team up with TWA. Isn’t TWA seen more as a quality airline compared to an el-cheapo minimum-quality one ? Actually, wouldn’t Delta not benefit from merging with TWA ? Personally, I think that most of these rumoured unions won’t happen.

Response:

That is the headline in the Friday AJC, just glanced at the article—-anyone in St. Louis know the scoop? Maryanne

It won’t happen. Although the AJC gave it the major headline in *some* editions, news of the scandal in City Hall took precedence in later editions throughout the morning. Also, a TWA-AirTran/ValueJet merger would be financial suicide, IMHO. If TWA feels that it needs to be in the merger game, a buyout by DL would make more sense. Side note… I just realized the other day, the TW M80 in the new paint scheme is truly a stunning looking aircraft. JMO. FlyingHigher Before you buy.

Response:

It won’t happen. Although the AJC gave it the major headline in *some* editions, news of the scandal in City Hall took precedence in later editions throughout the morning. Also, a TWA-AirTran/ValueJet merger would be financial suicide, IMHO. If TWA feels that it needs to be in the merger game, a buyout by DL would make more sense.

I’m not sure that TWA in its current manifestation (and with some hangover operational constraints) is the sort of pork chop DL wants to gnaw.  TWA is in the unenviable merger position of not having much anybody else except a smaller airline really is in need of….. Side note… I just realized the other day, the TW M80 in the new paint scheme is truly a stunning looking aircraft. JMO.

Unfortunately, liveries are like liver, no matter how you dress it up, very few folks will buy it every day. FlyingHigher

– TMOliver – el pelon sinverguenza "Alle kunst ist umsonst, wenn ein Engel in das Kundloch prunst."

Response:

Why?? DL has CVG.  STL would be hub overlap.  Fleets would merge well though. DL needs AS more than they need TW. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, wouldn’t Delta not benefit from merging with TWA ? Personally, I think that most of these rumoured unions won’t happen.

Response:

It won’t happen. Although the AJC gave it the major headline in *some* editions, news of the scandal in City Hall took precedence in later editions throughout the morning.

It’s "the centerpiece" of the Journal-Constitution’s site today: http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/ Also, a TWA-AirTran/ValueJet merger would be financial suicide, IMHO. If TWA feels that it needs to be in the merger game, a buyout by DL would make more sense.

The article says AirTran Holdings would be the acquirer but no decision had been made on which name would survive a merger. It also quotes an analyst from Raymond James and Associates, James Parker: "You’d have to ask, with what would AirTrain acquire? Their stock is at $4 a share and they don’t have a lot of spare cash." A PaineWebber analyst says a marketing alliance (i.e., code-sharing) would be a better route for AirTran and TWA, and he also expressed doubts that AirTran has the resources to turn around TWA. http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/newsatlanta/airtwa/index.html Surely Trans World Airlines would be the name of the merged carrier. And, personally, while an AirTran-TWA merger might not make conventional economic sense, I think it’s logical in an aviation sense. It would give TWA a presence along the east coast and AirTran a presence in the Midwest. If TWA merged with Delta, what would the net result be? Nothing, except Delta would have one less competitor in the Midwest and possibly have gained a few new passengers from Missouri and Illinois via Trans World Express. The one major carrier who would be a good fit with TWA is US Airways, and if the government really cared about the state of commercial aviation it would arrange a CAB-style "shotgun marriage" between US Airways and TWA rather than allow a US-United merger go through. Side note… I just realized the other day, the TW M80 in the new paint scheme is truly a stunning looking aircraft. JMO.

A possible bad omen for TWA: "Product placement" in Woody Allen’s "Small Time Crooks" via footage of a TWA jet used to indicate Tracey Ullman’s return from Paris.

Response:

I wouldn’t call AirTran an "el-cheapo minimum-quality airline". While I mainly fly Delta (platinum medallion last year), I’ve flown AirTran and ValueJet many times. It was more than just a name change, they are not the same airline they used to be. I found them to be just as good as SWA if not as timely in their departures. Their new planes might help this. They also have a business class, and assigned seating. Now that I think about it, I’ll fly AT over SWA any day. I think AT/TWA would be a good match (as I posted several months ago). It would give TWA a good presence on the east coast, especially in the south east. It would help AT expand to the NE, Midwest, and overseas. The fleets of both airlines are mainly DC-9/MD8x/717 equip, so a good fit there. The gov. would never allow DL/AT merger. TW has nothing to offer DL or any other major carrier. -Ryan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That is the headline in the Friday AJC, just glanced at the article—-anyone in St. Louis know the scoop? Reuters reports it was the WSJ that broke that story. I really don’t see why Valuejet would want to team up with TWA. Isn’t TWA seen more as a quality airline compared to an el-cheapo minimum-quality one ? Actually, wouldn’t Delta not benefit from merging with TWA ? Personally, I think that most of these rumoured unions won’t happen.

Response:

This might make a nice academic exercise, but it makes no sense. The only thing that gives this any credibility are the 717s. AirTran Holdings buy TWA? Nice little airline, but it simply doesn’t have the cash.

Response:

The one major carrier who would be a good fit with TWA is US Airways, and if the government really cared about the state of commercial aviation it would arrange a CAB-style "shotgun marriage" between US Airways and TWA rather than allow a US-United merger go through.

Route/geography-wise, maybe, but not really fleet-wise.  Well, the 57s and 67s fit, but TW has a lot of MD narrowbodies (and 717s coming on). Are there even any DC-9s left in the US fleet? —          Greg Pacek           |   when I think I hear people say   Pittsburgh, PA, USA, Earth  |   things.  More I cannot say."

Response:

Are there even any DC-9s left in the US fleet?

Yes.

Response:

SNIP Route/geography-wise, maybe, but not really fleet-wise.  Well, the 57s and 67s fit, but TW has a lot of MD narrowbodies (and 717s coming on). Are there even any DC-9s left in the US fleet?

There are plenty left in the US fleet.  There are some in the TW fleet as well. Rich

Response:

Please don’t say anything about US potentially getting together with TWA. That’s something out of a bad dream.  I don’t want my hometown airline having anything to do with one that has F100’s in its fleet.   Um..it’s just a guess, but if AT and TW do consummate something I suspect it would be along the lines of a stock swap.  I wonder what dirty laundry TWA could get rid of if it were to be acquired?  Would Karabu be affected?  How about some of those rediculous maintenance contracts?

Response:

Please don’t say anything about US potentially getting together with TWA. That’s something out of a bad dream.  I don’t want my hometown airline having anything to do with one that has F100’s in its fleet.

Hee!  Hee!  I wholeheartdely agree! Renal Bhalakia Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

From USAToday 6-19-00, page 24A,  “Morton Beyer, an airline consultant in Arlington,Va., who assisted TWA in the mid `90s, says the concept makes sense. It would be good for both companies. Airtran would bring tough, realistic management, and TWA would bring a  lot of mass. But,,I couldn`t characterize (a merger) in any other way than a long shot.`

Response:

        Why would TWA ( or ay other airline ) want to be associated with a dog like AirTran ? Paul —  

(remove this part )pobox.com My WWW site is at http://www.pobox.com/~pjm, featuring free HVAC software. AirTran Airlines sucks.  If you ever fly them, you will regret it.  You will be stranded in an airport somewhere, and they won’t help you, even though their delays and incompetence caused you to miss your next flight.  You will be on your own as far as AirTran is concerned.

Response:

wrote in article    Why would TWA ( or ay other airline ) want to be associated with a dog like AirTran ?

Who’s the dog here?  TWA’s stock price and performance over the past DECADE certainly doesn’t get it first honors at the beauty contest. Rich

Response:

wrote in article        Why would TWA ( or ay other airline ) want to be associated with a dog like AirTran ? Who’s the dog here?  TWA’s stock price and performance over the past DECADE certainly doesn’t get it first honors at the beauty contest. Rich

        I was speaking here as a traveler, not an investor.  Even fleas won’t ride a dog like AirTran. Paul —  

(remove this part )pobox.com My WWW site is at http://www.pobox.com/~pjm, featuring free HVAC software. AirTran Airlines sucks.  If you ever fly them, you will regret it.  You will be stranded in an airport somewhere, and they won’t help you, even though their delays and incompetence caused you to miss your next flight.  You will be on your own as far as AirTran is concerned. See http://home.rmi.net/~pjm/airtran001.html for details

Response:

wrote in article SNIP    I was speaking here as a traveler, not an investor.  Even fleas won’t ride a dog like AirTran.

I see from your MULTIPLE repititious posts concerning AirTran, that this is an unbiased comment [/sarcasm] Rich

Response:

wrote in article        I was speaking here as a traveler, not an investor.  Even fleas won’t ride a dog like AirTran. I see from your MULTIPLE repititious posts concerning AirTran, that this is an unbiased comment [/sarcasm]

        I speak both from personal experience, and from the input of many many other AirTran victims ( and the police officers that routinely get called in , **according to them**, to protect AirTran from their customers ) that I met in Atlanta.         Characterize that in any way you wish.  This is a free country, regardless of what AirTran says on the subject of freedom of expression, and I respect your right to your opinion. Paul —  

(remove this part )pobox.com My WWW site is at http://www.pobox.com/~pjm, featuring free HVAC software. AirTran Airlines sucks.   See http://home.rmi.net/~pjm/airtran001.html for details

Response:

wrote in article SNIP    I speak both from personal experience, and from the input of many many other AirTran victims ( and the police officers that routinely get called in , **according to them**, to protect AirTran from their customers ) that I met in Atlanta.

Sure, and I could probably point out 5x as many TW victims from DOT reports than AirTran victims.  You’ve come from a perspective of recently being "burned" by a carrier.  Yet, you seem to equate your experience as being the sole underlying reason why or why not a carrier should merge or purchase a carrier.  I guess economics, accounting, and marketing issues never entered your mind??? Rich

Response:

No. It’s over – http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/000630/airline_ta_2.html

Response:

Question:

That’s the problem with statistics, they can be used to "prove" anything. 80% of all people know that (just kidding) We CAN NOT even do an accurate census in the USA, skipping over many including the homeless and despondent. Do you really think the number of depression related deaths in Nigeria is accurate? I doubt they fill the proper form, or raise their hand to be counted. How do they know? How was it tabulated? An estimate at best. Death rates soar in third world countries in comparison to the USA, so the stats say. How many autopsies performed per the number of dead? What percentage were determined suicide, and under what criteria? When using stats, compare apples to apples. Your stats prove nothing if data was gathered under different guidelines for each subject, such as this case, US and Nigeria autopsy criteria and accountability. Fiver beyond ~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree. Just as chances of surviving hemophilia are greater here than in the jungle. It does not prove that your society is the source of the problem. You are using facetious reasoning and not accounting the incalculable variables of a much larger problem… Fiver beyond ~ Also, if survival is a problem, you can bet that death comes very often as an makeshift "cure" to depression. TAE Here you are definately wrong. I have read a lot of statistics. The suicide rate in Nigeria (west africa p=100million) is not 1% of the suicide rate in the usa. Depression is definately much much less in Africa, I have read a lot to that effect. Mark.

Response:

You have chosen the name Kafka, and all I hear is preaching. don’t bother, you are making me depressed, so I must make changes? All I preach is extinction — STAY BEAUTIFUL.  " Junk is the ideal product… the ultimate merchandise.no sales talk necessary. The client will crawl through a sewer and beg to buy. … The junk merchant does not sell his product to the consumer, he sells the consumer to the product." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong. — H. L. Mencken —  ?

Response:

Has scientology struck again? Yawn. TAE

Response:

I agree. Just as chances of surviving hemophilia are greater here than in the jungle. It does not prove that your society is the source of the problem. You are using facetious reasoning and not accounting the incalculable variables of a much larger problem… Fiver beyond ~ Also, if survival is a problem, you can bet that death comes very often as an makeshift "cure" to depression. TAE

Here you are definately wrong. I have read a lot of statistics. The suicide rate in Nigeria (west africa p=100million) is not 1% of the suicide rate in the usa. Depression is definately much much less in Africa, I have read a lot to that effect. Mark.

Response:

Though I was not actually planning to reply to this post, (as I find that follow up arguments usually break the logic of the original)… Perhaps you could also share the reasoning that led to this? I don’t find any recent posts from you on the NG’s I read.

I used to hang out at alt.support (under a different name), but left after a while. I now stay at sci.physics. I have had several dogs, and they certainly are happy or sad sometimes. These are emotions. Do you see depressed wild animals? Or wild animals that are consistently sad, despondent, unmotivated, and eventually perhaps even suicidal? If you do, they are usually the dead ones, or the ones that are going to get eaten really quick. So I don’t think it is at all desirable, or at least natural in the sense that it would not be a trait desirable to be passed on to future generations (If it has a genetic cause, which is uncertain)

Clinical depression rarely occurs in african countries where *Survival* is a problem. That answers your argument. — Mark A. Kafka

Response:

I was eating chinese food out of funny little containers when I noticed Mark Here you are definately wrong. I have read a lot of statistics. The suicide rate in Nigeria (west africa p=100million) is not 1% of the suicide rate in the usa. Depression is definately much much less in Africa, I have read a lot to that effect.

Again.  Mental illnesses are definitely under-diagnosed in developing countries for no other reason than that 1)society has to deal with much more visible illnesses (in the case of sub-Saharan Africa AIDS affects up to 40% of the population, depending on the country), and the resources for treating mental illnesses are marginal at best.  Also suicide has traditionally been a very under-reported event even here in the industrialized world, as it imposes a great stigma on the family of the survivors. TAE

Response:

We have been looking at depression from the wrong angle! Imagine the world was a beautiful place, and only very few people were sad. Suddenly, a whole lot of people became sad. Our wise doctors would take these people to hospitals, and discover that a particualar chemical was causing this sadness. They would then research heavily and discover a drug that would cure sadness. Why would it never occur to the doctors that sadness is natural, and has a reason? Naturally depressed? Depression is considered to be a mental illness. An imbalance of chemicals. When a person is laughing, there is also an imbalance of chemicals. For just one moment, let us NOT consider depression as a mental illness, but as something as natural as happiness and embarrasment and love. Each of the 3 I mentioned has got a particular function. Love is to make you marry and keep the species alive, laughter/happiness is to give you a reason to live for, embarassment is to keep you interacting properly with the members of your society. So what can depression be for? Why depression? Depression is in the same family with sadness, fear, embarassment, hate -our negative emotions. Each of those emotions trys to make you change something because you do not like your present life– when you are sad, you want to be happy, when you are embarrassed you want to go away/not see the people before whom you embarrased yourself again, you would not like to live with someone you hate. All these emotions have 1 purpose – they drive you to making a needed change in your life. Depression likewise has exactly this function, it makes you want to change something, anything, so that you will feel better. And what causes depression? With hate, you know exactly whom you hate. With depression however, your negative feelings seem to be aimed at nothing. I am going to step on shaky ground now, and put forward my own personal theory. Depression has increased a lot in the last few decades. I am seduced towards seeing a relationship between our modern life  and depression. Modern life is boring. A teenager like me looks at the world ahead of him and sees a steady job and a steady income and a life in front of the television. There is no adventure, and there seems to be no point in living. Recognising this makes you want to change something. But there is nothing to change. (That is why depression is vague). Your sub-feelings recognise that something is wrong and push you towards changing it by making your life (the problem) unbearable. Following my theory, a depressed person would -Want something to change, but would not know how or what. -Hate/dislike/be irritated by his enviroment and people. etc. -The world around him would become less important (because of its hopelessness) -[Because his safety and security lie in not changing his enviroment] he would become anxious that everything remains the same. etc. This is not the end of this document. Mark A. Kafka

Response:

Has scientology struck again? Yawn. TAE

We do not want any violence here.

Response:

For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong. — H. L. Mencken

Response:

Well, well, well, we have a bright one here! ‘boil’ and ‘head’ comes to mind again. — The price of hating other human beings is loving oneself less! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We have been looking at depression from the wrong angle! Imagine the world was a beautiful place, and only very few people were sad. Suddenly, a whole lot of people became sad. Our wise doctors would take these people to hospitals, and discover that a particualar chemical was causing this sadness. They would then research heavily and discover a drug that would cure sadness. Why would it never occur to the doctors that sadness is natural, and has a reason? Naturally depressed? Depression is considered to be a mental illness. An imbalance of chemicals. When a person is laughing, there is also an imbalance of chemicals. For just one moment, let us NOT consider depression as a mental illness, but as something as natural as happiness and embarrasment and love. Each of the 3 I mentioned has got a particular function. Love is to make you marry and keep the species alive, laughter/happiness is to give you a reason to live for, embarassment is to keep you interacting properly with the members of your society. So what can depression be for? Why depression? Depression is in the same family with sadness, fear, embarassment, hate -our negative emotions. Each of those emotions trys to make you change something because you do not like your present life– when you are sad, you want to be happy, when you are embarrassed you want to go away/not see the people before whom you embarrased yourself again, you would not like to live with someone you hate. All these emotions have 1 purpose – they drive you to making a needed change in your life. Depression likewise has exactly this function, it makes you want to change something, anything, so that you will feel better. And what causes depression? With hate, you know exactly whom you hate. With depression however, your negative feelings seem to be aimed at nothing. I am going to step on shaky ground now, and put forward my own personal theory. Depression has increased a lot in the last few decades. I am seduced towards seeing a relationship between our modern life  and depression. Modern life is boring. A teenager like me looks at the world ahead of him and sees a steady job and a steady income and a life in front of the television. There is no adventure, and there seems to be no point in living. Recognising this makes you want to change something. But there is nothing to change. (That is why depression is vague). Your sub-feelings recognise that something is wrong and push you towards changing it by making your life (the problem) unbearable. Following my theory, a depressed person would -Want something to change, but would not know how or what. -Hate/dislike/be irritated by his enviroment and people. etc. -The world around him would become less important (because of its hopelessness) -[Because his safety and security lie in not changing his enviroment] he would become anxious that everything remains the same. etc. This is not the end of this document. Mark A. Kafka

Response:

For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong. — H. L. Mencken

–  ?

Response:

I agree. Just as chances of surviving hemophilia are greater here than in the jungle. It does not prove that your society is the source of the problem. You are using facetious reasoning and not accounting the incalculable variables of a much larger problem… Fiver beyond ~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Also, if survival is a problem, you can bet that death comes very often as an makeshift "cure" to depression. TAE

Response:

I’m wondering where those statistics are coming from.  Africa’s a big place, most of it doesn’t have psychiatric care.  How many people in africa even have access to a medical doctor, much less a psychiatrist?  Never looked up any stats, but it would seem to me that in any third world country depression is very unlikely to be diagnosed, much less treated. Just my nickel… — Save up to 75% on prescription drugs… http://infoinc.bizland.com

Response:

I was eating chinese food out of funny little containers when I noticed Mark Clinical depression rarely occurs in african countries where *Survival* is a problem. That answers your argument.

Re-read your sentence and think about it for a minute. Where survival is a problem, I am certain that clinical depression occurs fairly frequently.  However it is under-diagnosed and under-reported, because if your country has a poor health infrastructure you can be sure that mental health is the very last in the list of medical concerns. Also, if survival is a problem, you can bet that death comes very often as an makeshift "cure" to depression. TAE

Response:

The word bait seem to be cycling in my mind… Fiver beyond ~ who thought he was the irrational one Though I was not actually planning to reply to this post, (as I find that follow up arguments usually break the logic of the original)…

snip… some stuff I disagree with… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This is not the end of this document.

Response:

Here you are definately wrong. I have read a lot of statistics. The suicide rate in Nigeria (west africa p=100million) is not 1% of the suicide rate in the usa. Depression is definately much much less in Africa, I have read a lot to that effect.

Since my next door neighbor is Nigerian, and a U.S. trained psychiatrist I gave him a call to ask his opinion.  He said suicide is indeed less in Nigieria because the family units there are where the U.S. were 50-100 years ago.  In short, individuals there can turn to family, while here we are on our own, no matter what.   Depression, on the other hand, is the highest percentage illness affecting the entire world, with tuberculosis coming in second.  He said U.S. medicine is more advanced than anywhere else in the world, and we can reconize depression and treat it as such.   He also said that in Nigeria, psychiatry is not as organized  and there are not as many practicing, and that depression is usually called ’something else’, while still being depression.  He estimates that the Nigerian depression rate is as high as in the U.S.   People don’t go to psychitrists unless there is schitzophrenia, where it is pretty clear that there is a problem with the mind. His closing comment was that we’re all human, and pretty much all wired the same. comments, flames, and decorating ideas for a contemporary house can be sent to Renee Taylor

Response:

Hi Mark. I notice you have cross-posted this to a LON of NG’s. While cross-posting is much better than multiple posting (The message only takes up space on the server(s) once, you may wish to consider focusing more specifically on a smaller audience and smaller set of issues. Many people dislike replying to such a wide cross post, since we (I!) don’t know what other discussions are going on on all the other NG’s. I disagree with what you wrote,  expect others too, but at least you appear to have put some thought into this. Perhaps you could also share the reasoning that led to this? I don’t find any recent posts from you on the NG’s I read. I am curious, are you depressed, have you been diagnosed, and prescribed medication? If you are, that lends some credibility to your opinions, however in the NG’s I read, if the opposite is the case, well,…. I don’t believe that depression is an emotion. Sadness may be one Sx, but depression is not sadness. Please take a look ot some of the web sites (Like "Depression Central", usw.) that have a kind of self-test "If you have 5 or more of the following symproms…" Some of what you write perhaps is more like dissatisfaction with the world as it has become today. I would not be suppised if the changes in modern society contribute to depression. If depression or depressive-tendency is something you are born with, the stresses of modern society may perhaps may act as a trigger to make depressive episodes more frequent in those who are sensitive. However I think there is a distinction between dissatisfaction and depression. If depression is not a mental illness, hypothetically as you are considering, then it must be somehow natural. Happiness is natural. I have had several dogs, and they certainly are happy or sad sometimes. These are emotions. Do you see depressed wild animals? Or wild animals that are consistently sad, despondent, unmotivated, and eventually perhaps even suicidal? If you do, they are usually the dead ones, or the ones that are going to get eaten really quick. So I don’t think it is at all desirable, or at least natural in the sense that it would not be a trait desirable to be passed on to future generations (If it has a genetic cause, which is uncertain) I am curious to see what other response you get to this. – Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We have been looking at depression from the wrong angle! Imagine the world was a beautiful place, and only very few people were sad. Suddenly, a whole lot of people became sad. Our wise doctors would take these people to hospitals, and discover that a particualar chemical was causing this sadness. They would then research heavily and discover a drug that would cure sadness. Why would it never occur to the doctors that sadness is natural, and has a reason? Naturally depressed? Depression is considered to be a mental illness. An imbalance of chemicals. When a person is laughing, there is also an imbalance of chemicals. For just one moment, let us NOT consider depression as a mental illness, but as something as natural as happiness and embarrasment and love. Each of the 3 I mentioned has got a particular function. Love is to make you marry and keep the species alive, laughter/happiness is to give you a reason to live for, embarassment is to keep you interacting properly with the members of your society. So what can depression be for? Why depression? Depression is in the same family with sadness, fear, embarassment, hate -our negative emotions. Each of those emotions trys to make you change something because you do not like your present life– when you are sad, you want to be happy, when you are embarrassed you want to go away/not see the people before whom you embarrased yourself again, you would not like to live with someone you hate. All these emotions have 1 purpose – they drive you to making a needed change in your life. Depression likewise has exactly this function, it makes you want to change something, anything, so that you will feel better. And what causes depression? With hate, you know exactly whom you hate. With depression however, your negative feelings seem to be aimed at nothing. I am going to step on shaky ground now, and put forward my own personal theory. Depression has increased a lot in the last few decades. I am seduced towards seeing a relationship between our modern life  and depression. Modern life is boring. A teenager like me looks at the world ahead of him and sees a steady job and a steady income and a life in front of the television. There is no adventure, and there seems to be no point in living. Recognising this makes you want to change something. But there is nothing to change. (That is why depression is vague). Your sub-feelings recognise that something is wrong and push you towards changing it by making your life (the problem) unbearable. Following my theory, a depressed person would -Want something to change, but would not know how or what. -Hate/dislike/be irritated by his enviroment and people. etc. -The world around him would become less important (because of its hopelessness) -[Because his safety and security lie in not changing his enviroment] he would become anxious that everything remains the same. etc. This is not the end of this document. Mark A. Kafka

Response:

Clinical depression rarely occurs in african countries where *Survival* is a problem. That answers your argument.

oh yea survival. haveing to run round avoiding all those lions and tigers with only spears and bows i suppose they dont have much time to become depressed. — Heron?

Response:

The word bait seems to be cycling in my mind… Fiver beyond ~ who thought he was the irrational one… Though I was not actually planning to reply to this post, (as I find that follow up arguments usually break the logic of the original)…

previous post snip… some stuff I disagree with… This is not the end of this document

Why state this is not the end, then contradict yourself by saying that you didn’t plan on replying, makes as much sense as the rest of your document…

Response:

I aplogise for cross posting. But since this is related to depression in general, I felt justified. Mark

Response:

Question:

You can get a free preview of CPAexcel at http://www.cpaexcel.com You can download it right there or ask for a free cd. Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking into various ways of preparing for the May CPA exam.  Does anyone have any experience with any particular CPA exam preparation products, particularly the "CPA Review" product offered by Kaplan? Thank you very much. Please respond to the address above or to this news group.

Response:

Sigurd – I just finished the Becker review course last week.  It is very intensive.  In the New York area it is taught live while I believe it is taught by tape throughout the remainder of the country.  I highly recommend the live classes from Becker. David W. Terrell – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking into various ways of preparing for the May CPA exam.  Does anyone have any experience with any particular CPA exam preparation products, particularly the "CPA Review" product offered by Kaplan? Thank you very much. Please respond to the address above or to this news group.

Response:

I think it all depends on your level of experience (auditing experience – especially in a national CPA firm) and how well your univerisity accounting program prepared you for the exam. I sat for the exam without studying just to get a feel for it – hey, it was only a couple of hundred bucks and all the anxiety about sitting for it was over (I’m in Nevada and it was held in a covention room at the Showboat Hotel & Casino).  It also gave me a good measure of what topics I needed to study.  Then I took two weeks off just before the May exam (I was working for Laventhol & Horwath -a now bankrupt (1990)  international accounting firm, then number 7), and locked myself in my bedroom (except for meals and other necessary breaks) and crammed like never before, using a set of review books (Gleim).  I didn’t even watch TV or read the newspaper – I couldn’t cloud my mind with extraneous information.  I am happy (and relieved) to say that I passed the exam with a total score of 303 (hah – I beat the 300 club), 78 in auditing, 75 in the rest.  It was a hellish 2 weeks but I think better than all those darn Becker classes I hear about (and a lot cheaper too).  By the way, I went on to become an audit manager before leaving public accounting to become CFO of a $50 million company. My advice if you haven’t sat for the exam is to take the practice exams (without cheating and time yourself), to get a feel for your weak areas and then concentrate your studies on those areas. Good luck with your preparation and thanks for listening to how one CPA prepared and passed the exam.  It’s not an easy club to join, but worth it!!! Greg Chilcote, CPA P.S.  Anyone else have nightmares about preparing for the exam??

Response:

I am looking into various ways of preparing for the May CPA exam.  Does anyone have any experience with any particular CPA exam preparation products, particularly the "CPA Review" product offered by Kaplan? Thank you very much. Please respond to the address above or to this news group.

Try the free preview CD at  http://www.CPAexcel.com Allen Smithson

Response:

taking a review class is most helpful. Beckers, conivor duffy, Lambers are just a few of the reputable review classes available

Response:

I am looking into various ways of preparing for the May CPA exam.  Does anyone have any experience with any particular CPA exam preparation products, particularly the "CPA Review" product offered by Kaplan? Thank you very much. Please respond to the address above or to this news group.

Response:

Question:

   I’ve started a brew of ginger beer and insted of adding 1Kg of sugar I added twice that amount for some extra kick.  The sg was 1.038 but I expected it to be much higher with the extra suger as beer is about 1.040 with only 1Kg of sugar.  Why is this so?  I was under the understanding that the difference in start and finish gravity of the brew was related to the alchol content. The packet says that fermentation stops at 1.006. Will this differ because of the extra suger?  Finally what affect will the extra suger have on the tast, texture,brewing time (in the bottels),and alchol content. Thanks,         Paul McCormick. — – Women, can’t live with them.  Where’s my beer.|                              -

Response:

   I’ve started a brew of ginger beer and insted of adding 1Kg of sugar I added twice that amount for some extra kick.  The sg was 1.038 but I expected it to be much higher with the extra suger as beer is about 1.040 with only 1Kg of sugar.  Why is this so?  I was under the understanding that the difference in start and finish gravity of the brew was related to the alchol content. The packet says that fermentation stops at 1.006. Will this differ because of the extra suger?  Finally what affect will the extra suger have on the tast, texture,brewing time (in the bottels),and alchol content.

The only reason i can think of for the SG not going up with the extra KG of sugar is that you’ve reached the saturation point with the first KG, and the rest sank happily to the bottom of your carboy.  This is especially likely if you saturated the wort while it was hot, and then let it cool. Maybe there’s other reasons; i’m no chemist. The difference in gravity is related to alcohol content directly. (Assuming everything was dissolved when you took your first reading, and accounting for temperature change.)  When dissolved sugar is converted to alcohol, mass is conserved, but density changes.  So you just measure the density change and multiply by a constant (or use the potential alcohol scale on your hydrometer). Anyway, your final gravity is going to be different now that you’ve added another KG of sugar.  Assuming that it will all ferment (though your yeast might die before all that extra sugar goes) there will be more alcohol when you’re finished, so your gravity will be different.  At any rate, you’ll know it’s done when successive hydrometer readings aren’t changing, so don’t worry. Your final question:  alcohol content will more or less double (if you disregard yeast tolerance and other factors, which of course you can’t). Brewing time will no doubt increase.  The beer will have less body then, say, if you added 1KG of malt instead of sugar (which i do when making ginger beer).  And if you used white sugar, it might taste a little harsh. This is all from my experience.  If i’m a little off (or flat wrong) on any of these points, somebody please set me straight.                              Jon Rosenberger

Response: